Going back to Ns

[confused2]

Red, you are doing great. one step at a time. don't allow your N daughter to push your buttons. You know how good they are at doing that. my experience with my xN has been, if they can't get positive attention, they will settle for negative attention. he has always shown me that when my plate was full, and i would be busy with"things," that would be the time he would start up with something to get my attention, push my buttons. make me focus on him.

Your daughter knows you are grieving, and sad, she just wants any kind of attention she can get from you. i would do as you are doing, be kind to her, loving to her, but not allow her to give you more heartaches right now. if that means keeping her at arms length, so be it. give yourself time to grieve Gianna.

i wish there was something i could say or do to make things better for you, Redginger. please know that i am so sorry about Gianna. I can tell from your writings of her,  she was one of the joys of your life. I can't say that I know how you feel, because I have never loss a child to suicide,but I do think this is a time of living hell for you. I don't think anyone could blame you for feeling the way you do concerning your N daughter right now.

Your post today asking me not to look back for my xbf was very powerful. When you told me I sound like Gianna shook me a bit. I don't know what Gianna went thru when she went to Fla, and saw her Xbf, or what she felt while she was in the relationship with him,  but i think i know a little bit about the helplessness that she felt. My xbf has certainly made sure that feeling be with me.

We that love the Ns, are always trying to get them to understand how much we love them, and we always try to be good enough for them. constantly trying to make things right. when one thing is fixed for a day, something else breaks and it starts all over again. forever trying to get them to say "l love you." "I want you." "I'm sorry." we try so hard, yet they still walk away, or they never truly understand us.  the thought of not spending a lifetime with them is to hard to face. for them to show that they don't  want us is such pain, knowing there is another woman in there life is like living in hell. always wondering why can't he just want me? why am i not good enough?

I am fighting, Red. I really am... but in my head, I see him, and hear him. How do I get him out of my head?? Somebody please tell me how to get him out of my head??

You are in my prayers,
Sweetgrass

[Ami]

Dear Confused 2,
   I think that you need to make a decision to get him out of your head. When I used to have to watch my weight(now I am too thin), I "knew" when I was serious. When I was serious, I did not "romance" the sweets. I was not even really attracted to them.
   Being thin had more "power" that the joy of eating the sweets. I focused on how I would look in a bathing suit or how nice it would be to get new clothes,or how good I would feel about myself. The joys of giving up the cake outweighed the 'joys" of eating it.
    I see it the same way with you. You could focus on how good it will feel to value yourself, to love yourself enough to be strong, how happy you will feel when you take back your own power.how happy you will feel to set boundaries.etc. These might seem 'abstract" but it really does feel wonderful to start to get self love
   Another thing that I do with my mother is to think of something she did that really shows how she was trying to destroy me. When I want to call her, I think of the last interaction when she blamed me for being a victim. Meanwhile, she was abusing me. I think about this and I don't call. I have the fantasies of a loving mother,but the truth is I have a mother who wants to make me insane.
  So ,i would do both these things. The important thing is really "wanting to'
   In the meantime, you are lucky that he does not call. Maybe,it is  Divine intervention         Love  Ami

[sea storm]

Dear Confused,

How much of yourself are you willing to give to this guy?  His cruelty will only get worse.  That is how it goes.  We are the survivors who know this in our bones. 
First you will lose your pride and it seems that you have surrendered this. Next you begin to lose limbs.  Finally, there is nothing left. You are on ground that is not firm, it is quicksand.   You can't build a relationship on quicksand.

The decision you make to go back or not is not one that should be made emotionally even though all the songs say that.  This is a decision that the adult part of you makes.  No contact. And then you have a chance.

No contack and then you can start to rebuild slowly.  You ride out the feelings and it is the hardest thing you have ever done.  But then  you don't go farther down into dangerous psychological territory. By now I bet you think that you would die for this guy, and he is the great love .
This is a very young part of you.Probably about four years old.  This is time for the adult part of you to take care of that little girl in you. Ask HER if she wants you to go back to your X.
She will beg you to stay away.

Love yourself, Confused.

Sea storm

[finding peace]

Oh Red,

I can feel your anger.  Your daughter may well be an N (I do agree with Write – that I would be hesitant to set this in stone based on a second hand diagnosis – but she definitely seems to have N’tendencies from what you have written).

The fact that she is denying this “defiantly” suggests to me that there may be more to what she is feeling than she lets on.  To admit to herself that her inaction resulted in the death of her sister may be too devastating for her to bear – and therefore, she doesn’t.  Instead, her pain manifests in striking out at you.

While I understand that your daughter may be reacting out of pain, IMO, that does not give her the right to slap you down when you are in excruciating pain, especially given that she is 38 years old.  (If she were a lot younger, I would have a different opinion.)

In all honesty, I have no idea what I would do if I were in your situation.  The only thing I can think of is that you need time and space for you (without added stressors).  It seems to me, that right now, in this time and place, you need to take care of you.  And that is OK, and what is right.  Let your daughter bide for a time, don’t try to fix or focus on the N problem right now.  It is too much.

Sweetgrass - I equate these men to arsenic disguised as the most delicious elixir imaginable.  Every time you take a sip, it may taste delicious, but it is poison.  I wish that I could wave a wand and erase him from you, but I can't, you have to do this for you.  I think the blocking of his number was a great suggestion - set up some road blocks now, so that if he attempts to get through, you have some protection in place.  Then be kind to yourself, and take each day as it comes.

Peace

[Hopalong]

Hi Red,
I have to be brief...sick, and have obligations in the a.m. So this is all crunched up and condensed, but offered with love:

--don't don't say anything about that conversation with Gianna to your daughter. It is already lodged in her memories and may be the hardest thing her psyche's ever had to bear. If you blame her, she will become worse.

--send her some loving message that you can feel honest about. For now, leave out every scrap of anger and blame. And tell her in it that you HAVE to be peaceful because every day is taking all your strength. Tell her you want no more blaming. Neither to give it nor take it.

--let go of the N term--think it through a year from now. As much as we talk about it here, I truly believe for you right now, with your daughter, it will harm you to glue the label to her. She may be "acting selfish" because of her own grief and shock. And guilt. Perhaps they are coming out in a distored way because she doesn't have the gift to express them.

sleep well,
Hops

[Hopalong]

Hi Sweetgrass,

I believe this is the answer. Get him out of your head by stuffing your head with other things that matter more.

Now is the time to go help people who are in worse pain than you, have greater losses than you. Children, the poor, the homeless, doesn't matter. Just go volunteer until you are too tired to obsess. Go clean up a stream, do something for our burning earth.

You'll get through it if you force your attention outward. You really will.

Hops

[dandylife]

Axa,

I was just wondering if you have received your answer to this post?

It seems not too many actually have returned to N's.

I feel pretty isolated, being one of the few.

You said you were interested because your xn's xwife went back to him? And you wanted to understand why?

I think that the why's come down to a few standard reasons.

#1 Children (have children together, think it's the best to have the parents together)

#2 Financial (have business together, or for some reason it is financial BEST)

#3 The N has actually markedly improved

#4 The person is deluded, fooled and will once again be hurt

I think as long as the person has immensely strong boundaries, has had counseling and is not in fear of physical danger, they may be strong enough to deal with an N. Truly, and in reality, an N is only an Monster in our minds. Our reaction to their behavior is the real determining factor of the consequences of N-ism.

I will probably get a load of people objecting to this idea. But, really, unless the N is a psycopath - their "power" is like a mist. Once you clear it away, there is really nothing there.

We need to take our power back. I wish there was a way to broadcast this to the world.

Dandylife

[redginger]

Hi Red,
I have to be brief...sick, and have obligations in the a.m. So this is all crunched up and condensed, but offered with love:

--don't don't say anything about that conversation with Gianna to your daughter. It is already lodged in her memories and may be the hardest thing her psyche's ever had to bear. If you blame her, she will become worse.

--send her some loving message that you can feel honest about. For now, leave out every scrap of anger and blame. And tell her in it that you HAVE to be peaceful because every day is taking all your strength. Tell her you want no more blaming. Neither to give it nor take it.

--let go of the N term--think it through a year from now. As much as we talk about it here, I truly believe for you right now, with your daughter, it will harm you to glue the label to her. She may be "acting selfish" because of her own grief and shock. And guilt. Perhaps they are coming out in a distored way because she doesn't have the gift to express them.

sleep well,
Hops

Hops, sorry your sick, hope you feel better soon.

[Hopalong]

I'm so sorry Red.
Very clumsy and inaccurate.

Of course you know how to spot it!

Too painful for me...tell more later, but it's close to home.

hugs
Hops

[Hopalong]

CB, you're a drink of water, you know that?

love to you, and oh (((((((((((((((((Red)))))))))))))))))))))) you too dear!

Hops

[sea storm]

Axa,

I went back to my N several times. I could not resist and part of that was no support, no money, single mom, and no infomation about N.  I thought it was my fault and could be made to think that very easily. Guilt is something I can't stand. So all he had to do was put the blame on me.

Maybe people didn't fess up but most women go back and go back and go back and go back. Statistics tell us that.
Have compassion for yourself and you vulnerablilty and forgive yourself dea Axa.

Love,
Sea storm

[axa]

Dandy,

I think no matter how stong ones boundaries are living with someone who consistantly twists reality gets to one eventually.  XN's xwife had a serious breakdown and from my experience of her she never recovered.  I think she is desperate, which he knows and so will have little regard for her because of this.  Well in fact he has no regard for anyone so she is just tossed into the barrell.  I guess for her in her imagination it must be better than being alone.   Having witnessed how she abused her daughter emotionally I wonder also about her Nness. Thankfully I know I would not go back.  The fact that I did not have kids with him i am most grateful for.
The irony is that Xwife came back when the youngest child was 18 and off to college this year........ weird or what!

Maybe you Nh is not as crazy as XN and so having boundaries works to a degree.  I know that when I set boundaries I had to be hypervigalent to ensure they were not broken.  Also the ridicule I experienced because of the boundaries was so wearing.

Seastorm,

I think there is an element of brain washing going on also.  Like I thought I could not manage without him, part of that was because my confidence was so eroded from the madness, struggled with contact with friends and family because they could not bear to be around him, there are so many factors.  I think there is a plan from the start to disempower their victims.  I believe that the initial charisma is like a drug to the victims.......... being with them is like being so alive it is difficult to not to be seduced by it.  This is the bit I kept hoping would return but of course there was no need once I was hooked.  I know now that I have seen him wild horses would not drag me back to him WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

axa

[Ami]

I think that the "initial" charisma " reacts" with our unhealed inner child. I think that it "tells" our inner child everything that we always wanted to hear. I think that it says that we are safe,now. It says that we are lovable, worthwhile and special.
  The problem is when it ,later, BECOMES the abusive parent again. Then, we are in trouble.
  This makes sense to me, anyway                        Love   Ami

[Hopalong]

Axa, you
MADE IT!

I know now that I have seen him wild horses would not drag me back to him

 

Oh good for you!

love,
Hops