punishing myself

[Ami]

I need you all to help me. again.  I feel that I must "punish" myself.all the time. It is like I make a "deal" with" it".( I am not quite sure what "it" is) If I drink coffee too late at night and disturb my sleep--- Will "it" leave me alone.? If I eat something that gives me a stomach ache so I feel sick--- Will "it" be satisfied? If I destroy a nice day by "worrying" will" it' be satisfied?"
  I know that it sounds totally crazy and it is,but I need help and hopefully others have gone through this. I am posting about it b/c I want to let it go.
 I think that this layer of continually depriving myself of good things is a huge layer.When I get to the bottom, I will be much better.
   I think that it is probably  "cognitive dissonance "thing. You want "balance "  You will give up valuable personal qualities in order to make something"right"
  My feeling like I have to punish myself all the time  has something to do with this, I think.
  My mother told me in thousands of ways that I was despicable. I was the lowest ant that crawled on the ground. Then, on top of that, I should be stepped on. Her words, her looks, her voice and her mannerisms told me that i was responsible for every bad emotion and thought that she ever had. I was so disgusting ,. I was such a child", so fearful, so dependent, so insecure, so needy etc. I see now that all these qualities were HER. However, I see it with my 'head" not my heart. In my
Heart, I believe her. This 'punishing" myself is trying to still believe her. It is wanting to hate myself RATHER than face how horrible my own mother is. I would rather die inside than face that she was and is the monster "behind the door" in the horror movie.
   I made the decision,(age 14) that she was what she said she was "" caring, wanting to do the best for you. loving, and giving. So, WHO was left to be the BAD on? ME. I took the fear, and all the other bad qualities that she hated so much-- dependence  insecurity, anxiety etc
   I see that she always put me in a 'bind" where I would fail. I had to do well in school,but I was supposed to be SO smart to do well without studying. If I studied, I was failing B/C I was not smart enough. I was supposed to look good without spending time and effort on clothes, make up etc. If I spent time and concern ,I failed b/c I was supposed to look good  effortlessly.
 This was my existence.
  I took on this self hate b/c I made the decision ( subconscious) that I could not face the evil and sickness of this dynamic. It was so evil and so sick that I think that I could have gone insane by facing it( I think)
  So, now, I am still not facing what I need to. She is not here,but I am still punishing myself to appease "the gods".
  If anyone can see what I can't, I would  so appreciate your help      Love  Ami

[Overcomer as guest]

Ami:  I can understand this as well.  I live in a body that is too fat.  I am a thin person in a fat person's body.  Why do I eat too much?  As punishment.  I cannot be as thin as nmom.  I cannot be a beautiful, thin, successful person - that is only allowed for nmom.  SHE gets all the beauty (bought it three times at the hand of a plastic surgeon.)  She gets to be thin (tummy tuck.)  She was successful in her former career so her need to recreate those feelings of success pushes everyone else and everyone elses successes aside.  She likes to hear herself speak.  So...........we know this.  How do we stop it?  Maybe we need to stop - each time we bargain with ourselves and pray.  Or run to the computer and post.  HEY GUYS, I AM ABOUT TO EAT A BOWL OF ICE CREAM BECAUSE MY H IS DRUNK OR MY MOM FRUSTRATED ME TODAY!!  Ami, how about saying.  I am going to drink a nice cup of decaff so I have a nice, restful sleep.  OR read the word where it says in Matthew, Do not worry about tomorrow when today has enough worries of its own.  Or something like that.  I stopped worrying a long time ago.  If my kids get in a car wreck there is nothing that my worrys will do to prevent that.  And our awful mothers?  Ami, we need to self talk our way out of this.  We are wonderful 40 something women.  People like and love us.  We are very nice and thoughtful.  It is our mothers that need the pity.  Poor old women.  They know not what they do.............father forgive them......

[finding peace]

Ami –

Have a feeling “it” is your mother – here is the same sentence with mother in place of “it”:

If I drink coffee too late at night and disturb my sleep--- Will "mother" leave me alone.? If I eat something that gives me a stomach ache so I feel sick--- Will "mother" be satisfied? If I destroy a nice day by "worrying" will "mother' be satisfied?"
 
I did the same thing.  My T explained to me that as children (very young children), we are egocentric (totally age-appropriate) and it is very normal to blame ourselves (and punish ourselves) when our parents behave badly. 

In a normal family, the parent may behave badly, but they will apologize to the child and explain why and that it was not their fault.
 
In the case of Nparents, the parent behaves badly, and then blames the child for their behavior. Double whammy.  Did you ever hear something to the effect of – well if you hadn’t done this, I wouldn’t have screamed at you?  In my case (extreme example), my father would say things like:  “I don’t like to hit you, but you made me do it, now I feel bad.  See how bad you made me feel – what is wrong with you, don’t make me hit you again.”  Half the time he was hitting me or screaming at me because he was stressed out about something else – but as a kid you don’t realize this and your normal reaction is to internalize it, this is reinforced when they blame their behavior on you.  I think as young children, we also, illogically, think that maybe if we punish ourselves it will appease them - we can punish ourselves first, they don’t have to do it, and this will make them happy (sounds very twisted - but I think twisted and N are synonymous).  Because we live with it day in day out, it becomes second nature, so we carry it forward and learn to punish ourselves every time something goes wrong, every time we think something might go wrong, and every time we want to offset any future wrongs.  It was what we were trained to do.  It is very insidious and one of the nastier aspects of living with Nparents (IMO). 
 
Not sure if I am explaining this well, or if this is the case for you, but it was very true for me.  If it is true, although painful, it is a wonderful thing to have recognized this, because now you can let it go and give it right back to "it."

((((((((Ami))))))))

[Ami]

THANK YOU --Peace. , I am  crying so it MUST be true.  When I saw your "name" on the post-- I was so relieved  b/c you have been there every step of the way --out of this pain.It just hurts so much---but I am so glad that there is an explanation for it. I just feel so bad abusing MYSELF just the way that she did. It makes me feel so hopeless that I am all I have and I can't stop mistreating myself.
   Thank you so,much for answering my cry for help  . At least it has a name and an explanation.             Love   Ami
 

[finding peace]

((((Ami)))))

It is gut wrenchingly painful to realize that your parent is a monster.  And that is the threshold of gut-wrenching realizations isn't it?  I still have trouble wrapping my mind around it - lived it, still can't believe it!

I think you are being awfully hard on yourself.  You had a hellish childhood.  You aren't hiding from it, you aren't negating it, you are feeling it, figuring it out, moving forward, and fighting so very hard for yourself and a new and better future.

I have no doubt that now that you recognize the pattern, it will start to change.  It takes time.  In the meantime, I think you should congratulate yourself for having the strength to fight this fight (and it takes a tremendous amount of strength). 

Peace

[Ami]

Thanks Peace
  Today was such a hard day--- facing the monster.I am filled with fear. It is just hanging over me like dense fog.Also, I don't think that "normal people" like Maria can "get it" She had a hard childhood ,but it made sense, in a way. Hers was "bad".but mine was "insane". There is a difference in mine b/c my mother and father sucked out my reality and made me in to the "living dead"(or almost) She retained herself, even though things were hard. There is a difference, I think.
  Normal people sat"Get over it" b/c they don't have any tools to help you with. They,literally ,don;t understand how we "morphed" by living with a monster. She has  "simple" ways to get better like" get out more."I hurt so badly today b/c she was trying to help me but could not and I felt like a failure that I could not "get over it."
 I think that my friendship with her will be based on many things,but NOT on an N mother. She can't really help with that . That is O.K.. I just have to not keep trying. She does not 'get it" like I would not get"living in a poor country" like she grew up in. It is just a different reality. However, you guys do get it. So, I am not alone, anymore                         Love   Ami

[Overcomer]

Oh am-we do get it!  We will always have to deal with those life suckers who stole our self esteem and our identities.  We are suffering from ptsd-But luckily we have each other to cry to, rant with, and laugh and grow with!

[sunny2]

ami,,
for now just one aspect that triggered something in me...
it kind of doesnt fully fit but
the thing when someone says that  people did the best they knew how to....

but interesting stuff about being hard on oneself...
..makes me think kind of horney's thing about basically 3 types of overdoing imbalances
that people often fall into...
moving towards people..trying to over please others...
moving away from people...mine the ivory tower approach oops non approach
and 3rd moving against people..overly assertive...

and another thing... related to your concerns...
how narcissists are experts putting the blame off onto others...
does that come to mind much when you think of narcissists?
to me that is a real key point
and the ways they develop to do such....

[innerquest]

Ami,  everythig you said is true to me.  my parents also have destroyed my core, my self esteem, I don't know what I (the real me) want.  I have been doing their definition and expection uncounciscously for so many years.  I was feisty when I was young.  I showed disdain and spoke out when I see their hypocritical actions.  I have been told I am selfish, have a bad mouth, not loyal, to no end.  My father look me with disdain, he had never touched me or been close to me, he died 20 years ago.  Those days I used to cry in the night until my heart ached, I thought I was going to die of a broken heart and I wish I was dead, and I vow to myself around 14, I am going run away or find a job when I am 18.  At that time I still have a self.  After that, the school was getting busy, I was sort of out of their radar scan, they left me alone mostly(meaning ignore, neglect), and I gradually forgot about all these, become numb, conformed, and shut up, became a piece in my psudo family.  And that is how I have started betraying myself, and kept betraying myself lter on, I sold out, buying in what their difinition of me until my recent awakening.  Ami, I mourn my lost self, broken spirit.  And I really want to be whole again.  Thank you Ami for speaking for me, and other abused children, and we will come out of this!

[Ami]

I was praying that when I woke up today, someone would understand .. I am not alone. Part of my upset yesterday was trying to 'get" Maria to "get it". She could only say"You have to forgive." I felt like more of a failure  b/c if it were that easy ,I would be healed by now.I know that this is the ultimate answer,but there seems to be steps that you have to go through  in the process.I am NOT discussing this with ANY more 3D people. I will save this journey for you.,here, who get it without any "explanation.
  Bean-- your few words were SO profound. You have been "feeding the gods" and did not even know it. It was subconscious with me for most of my life. I have only had the 'courage" to face and express it ,now.It was very hard for me to write about it b/c I feel ashamed of being like this.
 Peace- my dear friend-- again you come through for me so profoundly. What you said is THE answer. It is such a relief to see it in black and white. It is a "real" thing and it has an explanation. I already feel better. I already see a break in the pattern--
-I.Q-- you have been there.too. Thank you for your kind words and words of hope
Kelly-- Thank you for your validation
Sunny 2-- thanks for answering. N's are a "curse" -- you are right. Keep writing so we can get to know you
   I already had a healing after I read Peace's post. Right then, something jumped for joy inside me. After that my son brought over a friend from college (10 P.M.). My new dog started yapping b/c
it was a stranger. My H was trying to sleep. He was screaming .The dog was barking. I was trying to talk to the friend. What was "new'  was I said,"Wow, this is overwhelming." That seems so simple,but I felt "real". I realized that my N mother criticised EVERY emotion and reaction and made me feel like I was a HORRIBLE person b/c I did not have the "right" emotion. every time. NOW, I do this to myself. You cannot be overwhelmed, afraid ,jealous, anxious, attracted to someone. , feel good about yourself, normal pride, etc etc.( ANYTHING) If you have any "normal' emotion, she will decimate you until you are a shredded person,just destroyed on the floor and begging for her to tell you HOW to be.All you wanted was for the pain and abuse to stop.                                                                               . At that moment,(with my son's friend and the dog barking) I felt real. Thank you-- Peace.
 I see that a HUGE part of my stress is having to have the perfect emotion or reaction or IT decimates me. This is so huge to see and the beginning of freedom. You are the best friends that anyone could ever have . I love you                           Ami

[finding peace]

Hi Ami,

I think your realization about Maria is really smart – I wouldn’t go to a dentist to remove a brain tumor, you know?

People who haven’t lived it don’t know, they can’t know, and hopefully they will never have to know.

I do think you are also very wise to keep Maria as a friend – the fact that she is willing to accept your boundaries – beautiful.

I do have to say that the phrase “get over it,”  “forgive them,” and (from Sunny2) “they were doing the best they knew how,” makes my blood boil at times.

How is that they didn’t know any better – but I did?  Even as a child?  Still haven’t figured that one out.  In the past I tried to accept that they were doing the best they knew how, but I really think it is more like they were doing whatever made life (in whatever twisted way) easier for them (and they did know better).

(((((Ami))))) Thanks for letting me know I was able to help – it means a lot.

Peace

[reallyME]

 

As punishment.  I cannot be as thin as nmom.  I cannot be a beautiful, thin, successful person - that is only allowed for nmom.  SHE gets all the beauty (bought it three times at the hand of a plastic surgeon.)  She gets to be thin (tummy tuck.)

If I had to deal with this, I am not sure I could handle it.  I want to have a weight-loss surgery soooooooooo bad right now too.  If I lived with a "mother" who went and got it done, I can say I'd be FURIOUS, JEALOUS and just really hurting over that!  I usually say "that would just KILL me" but I've been trying to say what I mean without exaggerating so much.

My heart is with you for this one.

Ami, your feelings are real and your perceptions, I'm sensing are very CORRECT.  Don't doubt what you feel inside and what you know happened.  Many of us are right there with ya in spirit, girl.

Blessya
~Laura

[Ami]

THANK YOU     Laura                             Love    Ami