Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Ns and their mothers
Tokyojim:
Just as a general answer to Portia - In my memory, it seems pretty taboo to kiss a parent on the lips, same or opposite sex. I used to kiss my parents on the cheek in greeting, or even in the air when briefly touching cheeks. A couple of friends even said, "You kiss your father on the cheek? That's disgusting!" (I ignored them, but point that out to indicate people's feelings about limits on such contact with one's parents.)
I grew up around many Italian-Americans who are very demonstrative physically. However, I never saw any lip kissing in families.
Portia:
...
bunny:
Tokyojim,
Your high school friend and his mother have a sick relationship. I doubt if he is an adult sexually. So it's hard to say whether he's gay, straight, or what. He is simply disturbed in all areas.
I think you tried your best to help him, but you really had no power over this situation at all.
bunny
Tokyojim:
Bunny,
Thank you for your feedback.
I want to be very frank and honest when I post. In doing so, I must say that I am still angry after all of these years. It may be a male macho thing, but I am angry that he did not have the guts and fortitude to break away from his mother. I look at him like a coward. My mother doted excessively on my older brother; many do. His reaction was a healthy one - he joined the military, connected to his girlfriend, got married and has been for over 30 years.
I UNDERSTAND that my N friend grew up with pathology and I should realize this. My cerebral part says that. But my guts, my heart, says: Have some courage, face life, be an adult!
I am now wrestling with the idea of never contacting him again. Hard decision to make after 40 years, but this forum and my readings are making it clear that there will never be a "real" friendship, and his N behavior is getting worse since his "mommy" died. The perverse and angry part of me is enjoying his deterioration and wants to watch him sink as he ages. (He is deathly afraid of aging.) Please do not come down hard on me, I just want to express feelings that I am wrestling with now.
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: Tokyojim ---I want to be very frank and honest when I post. In doing so, I must say that I am still angry after all of these years. It may be a male macho thing, but I am angry that he did not have the guts and fortitude to break away from his mother. I look at him like a coward. My mother doted excessively on my older brother; many do. His reaction was a healthy one - he joined the military, connected to his girlfriend, got married and has been for over 30 years.
--- End quote ---
Tokyojim, these feelings are perfectly natural. Of course you feel disappointed and disgusted in him for being so weak, for choosing his sick mother over your friendship and over other healthy things. Nothing wrong with those feelings.
--- Quote from: Tokyojim ---I UNDERSTAND that my N friend grew up with pathology and I should realize this. My cerebral part says that. But my guts, my heart, says: Have some courage, face life, be an adult!
--- End quote ---
I wonder if this thought is really meant for your parent(s)?
--- Quote from: Tokyojim ---I am now wrestling with the idea of never contacting him again. Hard decision to make after 40 years, but this forum and my readings are making it clear that there will never be a "real" friendship, and his N behavior is getting worse since his "mommy" died. The perverse and angry part of me is enjoying his deterioration and wants to watch him sink as he ages. (He is deathly afraid of aging.) Please do not come down hard on me, I just want to express feelings that I am wrestling with now.
--- End quote ---
I think it's natural to get some satisfaction from the downfall of someone with whom we are extremely angry. I think you have a lot of ambivalence toward this guy. On one hand, rage that he disappointed and hurt you so deeply by choosing sickness and pathology over health. On the other hand, compassion and a continued curiosity about him. Pragmatically, I wouldn't contact him. It would lead down a road that I think you'd be happier not taking. Alternatively, I might explore with a therapist my continued curiosity and interest in this person. Because I think it's really a curiosity about yourself.
bunny
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