Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
What do you do if you can't/don't 'trust'?
rosencrantz:
--- Quote ---And if I'm as f*#%ed up as I sometimes think I am, then I'm sure to stuff this up too. I can see myself, in Rosencrantz's T Rex suit, smashing around, saying to them "Excuse me, (CRASH) I'm just (CRASH) setting some boundaries (CRASH) here, so we'll (CRASH) all feel safer."
--- End quote ---
Thanks for the belly laugh!! :lol: :lol: That's exactly IT!!!!!
My thought on the 'employee brush off' thing...I understand where you are coming from, Guest, but I don't think it demonstrated she wasn't interested in your friendship. You stated the boundary and she heard. If either of you had made further contact outside work that would have caused even more complicated boundaries. :wink:
I think it really does depend on 'who' you are setting boundaries with as to 'how' you can express and how you 'should' express it. Maybe for those dangerous people in our lives, we should nver give them the ammunition to manipulate us further.
In everyday life, tho - I'm not sure about this but...are we perhaps always dealing with somebody else's 'child' when we want to set up boundaries??? I don't wanna play your game any more - I wanna play a new game or I wanna play by my rules. And that's fair enough. But, as adults - it doesn't seem quite right just to 'change the rules' without prior notice!?
So I guess my question is about 'how do you find the adult in yourself and - even more importantly - in the other person in order to communicate this change'. After all, if we've only just reached the adult conclusion, why expect them to be more adult than we are??! I suppose my first thought was to 'protect' the child in the other person - but it is really a case of finding the adult in the other person. I'm not sure I know how to do this but I'm learning it's OK to be 'equal' with yer 'averagely' normal person and just be 'honest' (once I've worked out what I really think and feel about it all).
Standing there telling my mother that she's my mother and I'm not her parent seemed to switch a switch somewhere for her. It was completely straight. Now she wants to be a parent again, I've just got to teach her that being my parent means more respect and less blame, less changing the goal posts, and less rewriting history to serve her own interests and less manipulation and :roll:
I think 'not in this lifestime' - I really have got better things to do with my life. :D
R
rosencrantz:
Portia - no, stop! LOL Nothing like that, honestly!!!!! It's fine, really!!! :wink: (When are you going to write that novel??!) I love her to bits, I know her family inside out as well!!! I think it fair to say I just had some difficulty in setting some boundaries 'mid-way'. Whooooo - I've led a sheltered life - nothing as scary as you've seen!! :lol: :lol:
And I REALLY like that joke about the sadist! Goes right home to roost!!!
TTFN
R
bunny:
rosencrantz, I am responding before reading any of the replies. So please forgive me if I repeat what others have said.
--- Quote from: rosencrantz ---OK - 'Not trusting' sounds like you've got a problem, right? So the idea is 'to trust'. And then to ignore all those little anxieties that keep cropping up.
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I have a different viewpoint. Trust has to be earned. I have a baseline hope that people are generally reliable. But they still have to be observed over time. And they should observe me over time.
--- Quote from: rosencrantz ---So you're really smart and brave...You ask the other person :'Am I right about this?' And the person tells you that you don't know what you're talking about.
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A person who replies, "You don't know what you're talking about" is being rather obnoxious. So I already wouldn't trust that person to give me reality checks! Maybe they can be trusted for something else, but not for that.
--- Quote from: rosencrantz ---Now, I've met people who really don't trust anyone. It's like walking on eggshells ALL the time. They really think you're out to get them. Get one thing wrong and they never trust you again. And they go off and sulk and won't/can't talk to you for days.
So, if you don't 'trust', you'll be 'just like them' and you know full well that this 'walking on eggshells' type of behaviour isn't right, isn't healthy and demonstrates someone who has a problem with 'trust'. .
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I think this is a bit extreme. When you don't trust someone (probably for good reason), you are immediately being paranoid? I don't think so.
--- Quote from: rosencrantz ---So you 'do the healthy thing' and you 'trust'.
--- End quote ---
Trusting is only healthy when there is good reason to invest one's trust. Blind trust isn't healthy, imo.
--- Quote from: rosencrantz ---Mostly I trust people from the outset but after a while there's a problem and I'll feel some kind of 'taken advantage of'.
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This is different. It's about not trusting your own judgment and ability to hold your own with others.
--- Quote from: rosencrantz ---In general, I think I have a pattern of being very open and then becoming more reserved. Partly it's because (I think) I don't know how give a friendship 'maintenance'. Initial meeting is great - warm, welcoming, open. But what comes next? I just don't know what's too much and what's too little! Perhaps this is something to do with boundaries. I'm only OK with friendships where someone else is very active in maintaining contact or where I meet up with people at a central point (like this board!!!) - or where I pay people for services. Outside that, I have no idea how to meet up with people I've met and liked.
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I think you know how to get in touch with people (it isn't rocket science), but it's scary because they may take advantage of you.
--- Quote from: rosencrantz ---Am I hurting them (cleaning lady & healer) when/if I say I want to set up different boundaries after we've spent some time gradually getting more and more cosy. So will they want to hit out and hurt me if I do??? (Mother issues again!).
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Both the cleaning lady and the healer are, as you point out, maternal figures. This causes confusion because you haven't quite separated their meagre power over you from your mother's power over you. If you can separate these people from your mother, if you can ascertain exactly how much injury they can realistically inflict on you should you stand up for yourself, you might get an idea of the next steps with them. I think you're afraid of some major retaliation/vengeance on their part. And it would probably be more like some guilt-tripping on their part, followed by their respecting you more. Remember that it's okay to command self-authority around other people so you don't become a doormat.
bunny
bunny:
--- Quote from: rosencrantz ---So I guess my question is about 'how do you find the adult in yourself and - even more importantly - in the other person in order to communicate this change'. After all, if we've only just reached the adult conclusion, why expect them to be more adult than we are??! I suppose my first thought was to 'protect' the child in the other person - but it is really a case of finding the adult in the other person. I'm not sure I know how to do this but I'm learning it's OK to be 'equal' with yer 'averagely' normal person and just be 'honest' (once I've worked out what I really think and feel about it all).
--- End quote ---
I think you're on the right track. I would definitely access the adult in myself to talk to someone about boundaries. It may be as simple as giving myself a pep talk to be a grownup for a few minutes. I don't try to find the adult in the other person. In fact, I would assume that I'm talking to a hurt child, not to the adult part of them. They may "grow up" during the conversation but likely they won't. I continue to be an adult, no matter what age they are. They will get it sooner or later. Maybe not the first time. And it's not fun or easy, but sometimes must be done.
bunny
rosencrantz:
Dear bunny - thank you. This must be your longest post ever. And you are brilliant on the reality check!!!!! An absolute true blue answer. And entirely, totally accurate. (Wry smile).
YOU are the final clue, the final key.
With all that's been coming up for me recently, I have a decision in my head. It's quite a difficult one to describe emotionally but I think the words will be simple.
1. I'll 'never' (probably) truly trust myself, my own impressions, my mind, my perceptions - and I accept that now. That's what my mother did to the person I happen to be. I know I'll always be very clued up on what's going on around me - and I can act on that - but I'll still have doubts when/if the chips are down.
2. I can build a support system around me of people who are good on the reality check! I don't need to be alone any more (in the jungle/no man's land). Portia, Guest (CG), bunny and a few select others are the kind of people I'll be looking for. :)
3. I can ASK!!!!! (You don't know what a breakthrough that is in my life generally - I describe myself as someone who can't 'ask' and spend time helping other people who find it difficult to 'ask'!!! There are whole books on it, you know!!!).
4. I can discriminate. I can choose who to believe. I can choose who gets into my support network and I can choose those things on which I ask them to give me that reality check. I don't have to treat everybody the same. I know they have different experiences and different blind spots and I am finally 'allowed' to take that into account.
Isn't it exciting!!!
5. I don't have to be quite so rigidly...upright...so you...can't...quite.....reach....me. ;-) Ooof! (Falls back down to earth with a clump!)
Can't think of anything else for now. (Smiles broadly)
R
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