Need Advice Again

[tayana]

My lawyer sent me a letter yesterday saying that the judgment against me has been set aside and new trial date set for next month. 

However, I wanted to avoid the nastiness of this case going to trial.  I just didn't want the nastiness or the expense of a trial.  I have until the court date to settle something out of court.

I spoke with my brother last night, but didn't really resolve anything other than to talk to my dad today.  I talked to him.  He wants me to talk to my lawyer and set up some sort of payment plan, and he'll help me pay the thing off.  It'll still be in my name, and that rather defeats the purpose of hiring the lawyer.  I told him I would talk to the lawyer. I really want the whole thing out of my name, and I really don't want to pay off an expense I didn't incur.

My lawyer wants me to talk to my mom, but I know she's unlikely to do anything to help me.

So my choices at this point seem to be, either take responsibility for this myself or else send my mother to jail.  I know I shouldn't feel guilty about going to trial, but I don't really want that.

For those who don't know the whole story, my  mother took out a credit card in my name, maxxed it out, defaulted on it, it went to court and there were several court procedings I knew nothing about, ending with a judgment for a large sum of money.  So I hired a lawyer to get the judgement set aside.

[sally]

Dear Tayana,

Here's my feeling:  Go to trial and clear your name.  I doubt your mother will go to jail.  You can ask the judge to not put in your mother in jail and the judge may consider your feelings.

If you don't clear your name, your credit may be messed up for the rest of your life.

I feel for you, it is a terrible situation, but please take care of yourself.  Go to trial and then you can put it behind you and restore your credit and good name.

That's my .02.

Love,
sally

[lighter]

Tayana...... take care of your credit.  I seriously doubt your mother will ever be held accountable for what she does.  Not that it's your job to sacrafice yourself so she can continue to prey on you in  any criminal manner she chooses. 

Her letting you swing..... and you trying to protect her (as any caring child would)  just makes me want to see her do 30 days in jail SOOOOOO BADLY! 

I was going for understated and controlled but..... I just can't do it!!! 

If anyone deserves to be held accountable for their criminal  actions.... it's your mother. 

How dare she injure you and your credit then sit back and let you take the wrap and act like it's not within her power to help you?  How dare she do that then expect you to save her from consequences of her own engineering. 

That's the thing.... she cuts her throat then tells you that you owe her.... you have to save her...... she's the victim here and how dare you try to send her to jail when she's done nothing wrong? 

I hope she has to do a little jail time.  I hope she sits there and feels tremendously put out and victimized and injured and then she connects her actions to the misery of being stuck in jail.  But she won't.  She'll continue to be a miserable human without any empathy for anyone but herself.  That's just the way it is. 

Nothing you can do about it.  I suggest you stop trying to control and fix EVERYTHING.  You're job is to take care of yourself and your credit.  You can't save your mother from herself or her actions.  She asked for all this trouble, now she's going to have to deal with it.  At least, I hope so. 

Don't get the idea I'll be unhappy at you if you cut your throat, in order to allow your mother to prey on you througouly and completely,  without interruption or consequences.  I'd support you in that, if that's your decision.  Sounds like your father and brother think sacraficing you is for the best too.  ::nodding::  Your mother certainly agrees. 

I don't happen to like that plan. 

What do you think, tayana?  Do you think you should pay her debt and let her get away with her behavior?  IS it your job to save her from herself?  If you think you can..... you're in for a very dissapointing life.  You can't save anyone but yourself, and your son.

That's the truth of it. 

[mudpuppy]

I know I shouldn't feel guilty about going to trial, but I don't really want that.

It's the toleration of this kind of BS by us nice and reasonable people that allows them to continue their behavior without fear of consequence.
If you have kids, do you love them by letting them get away with murder or do you demonstrate love by letting them experience the consequences to their misbehavior?

mud

[tayana]

If it was a family member that did that to me
a part of me would WANT to put them in jail.

a

A part of me thinks that she should, a part of me really wants that.  There's another part of me that's saying I'm a terrible person for wanting to put my mother in jail.  My friend told me I'm hung up on the word "mother" and anyone else who did something like this I wouldn't hesitate in pursuing this.

My father, I think, is afraid of criminal charges.  It's a symbiotic relationship, you know.  One can't live without the other.  So he's trying to do everything he can to clean up the mess without actually talking to my mother.  Communication is something we can't have in my family.  No one communicates.  My mother makes these messes and then expects everyone to clean up after her.  My brother said he didn't really know what to say or advise me to do.  He said he thought it was in everyone's best interests not to go to trial, but that he hated telling me to take the wrap for it too.  He said it was a lousy situation, and the worst that my mom had ever created.  My father's comment was are you sure she did this?  You need to go through your credit report and make sure everything listed there is yours.  I've already done that.  I've already had this account removed from my credit report.  I don't even know the account number.  I even found the letters where the reporting agencies removed it.

I think I'm going to talk to my mother when I go home to take my dog out.  I can't talk long, but I'll give her a choice.  She can either take responsibility or I'll let it go to trial.  My attorney wants her to contact him, so I'll give her his number, and I'll call him later today.  Maybe, by some miracle, she'll feel guilty and decide to do the right thing.

I just don't think I should have to accept the blame for this.  I had nothing to do with it.

[lighter]

Ya know, Mud.  

tayana's mother wouldn't have done this to her if she thought tayana would do anything about it.  

N's usually have very good instincts about this sort of thing.

Maybe tayana doesn't have it in her to do it?

Maybe she could if it was M being hurt?  I don't think she can see that M may be the one she's doing this to in 10 years if she continues without experieincing any consequences?

I just don't know if tayana trusts that her rights are more important than letting her mother get away again.  

Her mother certainly took the bet that tayana wouldn't be able to follow through with holding her accountable.  

I'd say it's about 50/50 at this point since tayana had the strength to get out of her mother's home but still hesitates to make her pay for her own cowardly behavior.  

If she hadn't moved out...... I'd say Mom is safe safe safe, no doubt.

Since tayana is new at this self protection/care game...... mom still has a chance to beam at herself in the mirror while telling tay's father that she knew the little sniveler would back down because she was innocent and had nothing to fear in the first place.  She'll go on about "how dare tayana even think about bringing up these insane charges against her!?!"  She should probably file charges back ::nodding:: but since she cares so deeply about her child, she could NEVER do what her own child DID TO HER and on and on and blah blah blah it will go with the weak and the dominated in that family.

Tayana isn't weak and she isn't dominated..... now..... but,

She's wounded and shaky and her mother is keeping her off balance.  

50/50 ::nodding::

[lighter]

tayana..... that's a wonderful idea. 

Give your mother the choice.  Than let her... finally finally finally.... deal with the consequences.

((tayana))

She can clear this up if she wants to.  Just make it clear that you're not going to do it for her any more. 

I like this idea very much.

::worrying about tayana having that conversation with her mother::

[mudpuppy]

She's wounded and shaky and her mother is keeping her off balance.

  I agree lighter. However, in my experience the best way to regain one's balance is to hold the aggressive party accountable. I realize not everyone is in a position to do that but I thi nk many people are and just don't know it. The battle with an N is always a battle of wills. If we keep ours we prevail, if we lose it they do. IMO the best way to keep it is to stand like a rock regardless of their threats and whining or the threats and whining their surrogates do.
  I think tayana's solution is perfect; either her mother accepts responsibility for her actions or she will have accountability imposed on her. Either way tayana is not forced to submit to her mother's web of submission. I think that is a very important part of her continuing to break free of her mother's grip that started with tayana moving out.

mud

[lighter]

Yup yup yup, Mud. 

Tayana came up with a good solution she can live with. 

She won't feel responsible for what happens and God knows.... I just wanna smack her brother and father for allowing all this to go on without just saying "THAT'S WRONG!  STOP IT!"  to the mother. 

Instead, what to they do?  They murmur things to Tay about not holding her mother accountable.  They let Tayana fall into terrible credit problems and just shake their heads and feel badly about it?  Absolutley unnacceptable.

[Ami]

Dear Tayana
   You got great practical advice from people who know more than I do. I want to talk about your father. Isn't it HORRIBLE when you realize that Mr Nice guy is really just in a symbiotic relationship with the N mother..
   My F-- Mr wonderful -is part of the duo. He is not the good one and she is the "bad one. They are a team. It really, really hurts to see this-- doesn't it?   Love  Ami

[tayana]

I don't know why I bothered.  I really don't. 

I called Nmom at lunch today when I went home.  We chitchatted for a minute, then I asked her if she would talk to my lawyer.    She said she would, but she said, "It's not mine, and if you think you're going to hang $28,000 on me you've got another thing coming, because it's not mine."

I said, "Well it's not mine, either, and I don't think I should have to pay for it.  I said I have two choices, we can settle this out of court or we can let it go to trial."

Once again she gave me the nonsense about the account having been paid off originally, thereby admitting she had the card at one point, and that she had turned over all papers, but no proof the account had been paid in full, over to the attorney she hired.  I've never seen anything she gave this attorney, and she kept no copies.  She said, I don't think I should be responsible for something that isn't mine.

I said somebody is going to get screwed then and it looks it's going to be me.  I told her if it went to trial, then there would be possible criminal charges.  She didn't care, just reiterated that it wasn't hers and she shouldn't have to pay for it.  She told me I could take her to court if I wanted, but it wasn't hers. 

So, I came back to work, feeling like I'd just lost yet another round in the boxing ring, and called my attorney to let him know I'd put his check in the mail and my mother was supposed to call. 

I pulled my credit report again and I can see where this account has been sold, and it looks like it might have been paid at the time of the sale, but I don't know for sure.

I have no account numbers, no nothing to get any information from the company.  My mother claims the principle on this account was a piddly amount, but I don't think $13000 is piddly.  I'm hoping there's an account number on some of the papers my attorney gave me, and if there is, I'm going to contact these credigy people and see if I can get a copy of all paperwork related to this.  At least then I can see past history on the account, because I don't believe my mom when she says it was paid off.  She told my dad the account she defaulted on in his name was almost paid off too, but she still owes $5000 on it.

As for it not being hers, I remember statements from this credit card company coming to the house, because I used to sneak a look at them to see the balances.  She defaulted on my dad's card, and I"m certain she defaulted on this one too.  I just need proof.

[Ami]

Dear Tayana,
   I am so mad, at the moment, for what she is doing. I would take her to court. It is your dignity that is at stake here(IMO) . She thinks that you are so worthless and inconsequential that she can treat you despicably.Show her otherwise  !!!!                                      Love   Ami
     

[lighter]

Well....::sigh:: tayana.... are ya surprised?

I'm quite certain your mom is going to deny this to the death, even if there are pictures of her using the credit card and recordings of her laughing about your being stuck with the debt.  That's just the way these people operate.

I'm also certain that you should continue doing whatever it is you need to protect yourself and your credit.

If statements went to your mother's address, there will be records of it.

How frustrating this must be for you.  And you have all the responsibility and no information to help yourself. 

You certainly don't have any control over what your mother does. 

You shouldn't feel guity when the consequences of HER actions catch up with her. 

(((tayana)))  You gave her a chance to deal with this outside the courtroom.  She didn't take it. 

[Hopalong]

(((tayana)))  You gave her a chance to deal with this outside the courtroom.  She didn't take it.

 

Yes.

Tayana. Woman. She's calling your bluff, hon.

She is calling your bluff.

You have a decision to make. You know what it is, and you know what it means.
(You made one you thought you couldn't make before. And where are you and M sleeping tonight?)

love and support and hope to you,
Hops

[tayana]

Hops,

Very true, though I have some new information that is very interesting.  I don't know how worthwhile it is, but it's interesting.

I just have to relate my story from last night.  M had been home from camp for about thirty minutes. He had a really good day, and he was all bubbly.  He talked to Grandma for a few minutes, while keeping one eye on the TV.  I guess she asked him if he missed her, and he told her that he'd almost forgot about her that day, but that he did miss her.  So she hung up on him.

Yes, she hung up on a ten year old, because he'd had a really fun day with other kids.

She called me later and complained because of what he'd said, making some comment about, "Well, since he doesn't know me anymore . . ."  and then "What's he doing right now?"  Well, at that moment, he was watching TV while I was cleaning up the kitchen.  Later on he helped me sort books.  I swear if I never see another book . . .

So now, she's not speaking to either of us, and I'm not complaining.