intellectual vs. emotional responses

[Guest101]

In addition, I want to make myself very clear that I've stated God has given me peace in this matter and I will not be anyone else but Guest101 in this forum so I won't be answering any more accusations as to who I "really" am.  I am Guest101.  Period, end of story.

[guest101]

Hi Bean,

Thanks for coming back to this thread and reaching out to me again.

I'm sorry I can't bring myself to ask "what happened to you?" here, out in the open on this thread, cause I'm afraid of the response both you and I might get.  I guess I don't trust the board that much.  Also, I think that would trigger a whole lot of people (including me), and I don't want to cause people anxiety.

I understand what you're saying and I feel the same things you feel.  I'm afraid I think it's best to let sleeping dogs lie and forget the whole matter altogether.

In a way, it reminds me so much of my FOO because often one member would be left in pain or be "abandoned" because of the stress it would cause the family.  We could never figure out how to get together and meet our needs and I think that's because we had two children really, my Mom and Dad, both incredibly narcissistic serving as examples.  All they cared about was meeting their own needs and if anyone else was upset then that was their problem.



I don't know what I was expecting -- wishful thinking, I guess or else replaying another  FOO script but as I've said God has given me peace about this matter.

It seems that I have to revisit trauma again and again, if only to notice that I have healed some and that I am stronger.

The other day my younger brother made plans for me w/o consulting me.  He's a little manipulating, controlling person and a liar to boot. 

He said, "Aren't you going to drive such and such up to the city tonight?" with all the innocence of someone who didn't volunteer people for stuff they don't want to do all the time.

When I asked him where did he get the idea that I would drive someone way across town he tried to pin it on his daughter. 

"Just ask her", he kept saying with a little manipulative smile on his face.  "She thought you were going to do it." 

When she came down before I could even blink, he'd ran up to her and said asked her didn't she think I was going to make the trip and of course the child, cornered and put on the spot said, "Honestly, well, I don't know; that was the plan" --

I said, "Look, I know exactly who you are and what you're up to.  You are a liar.  You're always trying to manage and control people and you made this plan w/o speaking to me but I'm not going and I wish you wouldn't do that."

Of course his response was, "Oh, you're crazy.  We're all having a good time.  Why do you always have to spoil everything?  Don't listen!" he said to his daughter, I mean physically standing between her and I!!! " It's not even a big deal.  Whatever.  Making a big deal out of nothing!"  He turned to me, "You're just looking to start trouble."

Abruptly he changed the conversation, a forced smile painted on his face.

His daughter cornered me a little later  and whispered:  "He TOLD me that you were going to drive over there."
"I know", I said, "I know exactly who I'm dealing with".

But I was left feeling all yucky inside.  Like I'd put my hand on some snot on a chair by mistake and couldn't get it off my fingers.

You see in my FOO I was always crazy, a trouble maker, labeled, cornered, manipulated  -- if it wasn't so painful it would be boring.

But however painful it was I was always told to just get over it or it wasn't a big deal and you know that just kills me.

It's like going over to a person who has a bleeding gash in his leg and saying, "You know, that cut has been bleeding for a bit.  It shouldn't be.  You should stop bleeding and complaining of pain and walk normally like nothing is wrong right now."

Everyone heals at their own pace and everyone has different needs for healing.  It's not for one to tell another person what they should or shouldn't be doing to heal.  There's a line between advising and dictating.

I'm sorry this has been uncomfortable for you -- that wasn't my intention in the least.  I know that some people might not agree with what I've decided and I'm sorry about that, too but I have to do what is best for myself before I can look to caring for other people.  I've learned the lesson well enough.

By the way, you sound stronger

[guest101]

Bean,

Let me share with you what I've learned.

When speaking with evil I've learned you speak with authority.

Have you read People of the Lie?

I don't remember if you are spiritually inclined or not but it doesn't matter.

Abusive people/evil people/bullies/Ns -- they all respond to authority.

Remember, they are emotionally retarded and insecure -- when you confront them with the truth -- when you mean it from the bottom of your soul, they respond to that confidence in the only way they know how, by backing down.

My brother IS a liar.  The next week he asked me with a syrupy sweet voice:  I was wondering if you could drop the kids off when you're leaving; that is if you want to you know.  No pressure.  I'm not trying to get you to do anything you don't want to."

Was he being sarcastic?

I don't know.  I don't care.  All I know is HE KNOWS do not volunteer me for anything w/o my permission again.  If he does it again he will be dealt with in the same manner.

Of course, I'm talking about dealing with disordered, abusive people with absolutely no boundaries.  they love to change things and rewrite history, they as the blameless star of course.  if anything comes up that doesn't cast them in the best lighting they gas light or attempt to erase history.

presenting them with the truth always scares the crap out of them -- but you've got to be careful because some people are truly evil, ruthless and uncaring and they will hurt you w/o a thought in the world.  my brother, his image is much more important to him than hurting me.  but he's still very capable of hurting me -- I've seen him be ruthless and that is why I give him a wideberth.

yeah having two N parents sucks -- you end up feelings like an alien.  and guess what, the aliens DO reproduce, in the form of some of your siblings and sucks even more.

[teartracks]

Dear guest 10l,

I thought I would not be posting to your thread again.  Maybe that I am, means that I'm not rigid in my thinking.  I see that as a good thing.
 
What I want to try and do is take apart and hopefully help make sense of what may have caused what you introduced as a  perfectly worthy topic for discussion down a bumpy path of ambiguous, confusing  verbal exchanges with little topical substance   
 
How did it all get skewhawed?  Here is my take:
 
1)  Your identity is hidden whether you post as guest or as a member.  Being a member simply makes more options available to you. However, right or wrong clandestine type identities by nature stir up suspicion in realspace and on this forum  especially in cases where one makes a point about having taken a 'hidden identity, which is no more hidden that that of a full member.  In my view, the way you presented your case as a way to cop a hidden identity was a ruse.  It invites and to a significant degree gives permission to be treated as if you don't really exist in flesh and blood.  Did you do this on impulse without a thought for how it would shake down eventually and erode your creibility if pursued?  I'd be the last to chastise you for impulsivity.  I've had to reel myself in a few time here.  While on the subject of broader options, if you have been in back channel discussions or alliances that went bad, then I can see why you would be more cautious about becoming a member, preferring to operate inside a smaller loop. 

 2)  Most people don't have a category or compartment where they process things as disturbing and complex as a mother killing her child.  I don't. I don't want to designate a place in my heart or my intellect that is  dedicated  to trying to make sense of something so horrible. I'd rather just stumble through it if I have to.  As I write about it now, all I want to do is cry.  All I will want to do next time is cry.  I don't want to understand intellectually or emotionally a thing as disturbing as this  to the point where I can offer up a fresh, perfectly worded response on the spot.  I just don't.  OC,  please forgive me for speaking about you in the third person.   I'm not trying in any way to diminish or disrespect OC's need to be comforted.  I can't imagine the turmoil and grief she has experienced.  I'm in complete agreement that she needed and deserved comfort and support delivered from the heart rather than the intellect.  But in the main, I think most people are like me, unprepared and ill equipped to stand in the gap on such occasions except incompletely.  So while you should be commended for your sensitivity to OC, the event/subject you chose to demonstrate your point was far too complex and overwhelming to be a good one, except perhaps for a handful of highly trained professionals.
3)  Your starting posts suggest that you possess some kind of ethereal,  all knowingness or discernment as to when and where evil lurks in others.  In the Christian faith it is believed that some are gifted in the discernment of spirits.  If that is where you are coming from, then so be it, but something in the way you present your 'gift,' if in fact that is what you are doing is offputting.
4)  When you posted what you thought would have been a proper response to your earlier posts, (your post #124), my thought was, wouldn't I  be preaching to the choir (even if  I'd seen what you didn't say between the lines, which I didn't), considering  as how you already seemed to KNOW it all.  Maybe I'm out to lunch, but my sense was that you had something to say, that you said it, and that was that. I respected the point you wanted to make in your initial post concerning intellectual vs emotional responses.  But the event you used to demonstrate it was (I'm sure not by design) not a good choice. 
5)  TT, your response did not make me feel good at all.  did is matter to you when you wrote it, how I felt?  I'm just asking. Your feelings do matter a lot to me before, during and after this thread dies, however, my post wasn't about addressing your feelings.  It was about trying to draw attention to the board's limitations.  There is every possibility that in a different setting discussing a different subject, you would have been at the center  of my tenderest thoughts, feelings and expressions.

were you just concerned with the fact that I had made the board look bad or that you felt bad that you forgot I'm a person just like you.  with all my hurts faults and all.
 Actually, I don't think you or any other individual or group has the power to make the board look bad or good in more than a transient fashion. The board is what it is.  It draws its characteristics from it's participants not the other way around.  You could say the board is the tree, we members are it's branches, twigs, and leaves. 
6)  My opinion only. The conflicts that arise (in roughly  quarterly cycles) here often appear to be driven by one or another person's desire to imprint the board with their identity either permanently or for the proverbial fifteen minutes of fame.  Sometimes  the steam powering the attempted coup has been gathered by alliances formed  back channel.  Sometimes, it's not covert at all.  It's more like an in your face failed coup de tat.  You stated that the board functions well with cliques and sneakiness.  The reality of it is that in the big picture, cliques and sneakiness hardly see the light of day.  That's because the board is the tree.  Inherent to its nature is the capacity to shed or reject  it's branches, twigs and leaves.  For a narcissist, that might take some getting used to, but it is a fact.
6)  In your post #127 and others, you reflect on the way you've presented yourself thus far on this thread.  Good for you!  I'm beginning to hear your heart.  I'm identifying with you.  #130 not so good.  A lot of blaming and shaming, playing the victim. 
7)  From the start of this thread, I sensed an underlying theme of exaggerated victimhood in your posts.  #175 seems to back up that sense.
7)  Responding to your invite post # 161.  Honestly.
  I  also wanted to point out that I'm as "anonymous" as anyone else is on this board.  My handle is my handle, and whether it's guest101 or G101 or Mary it's still me.   That seemed obvious to me from the start, which begs to question what was behind the hidden identity sham/drama? 

Thanks for allowing me speak. 

tt
http://www.vision-nest.com/btbc/kgarden/tscircle.shtml
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUxi-Zc45tA

[reallyME]

Ok, my initial reaction while reading some of the posts here is that people have "too much time on their hands."  Any newcomers to this board, will have no clue who is who and what is being debated or discussed.  I'm not saying that you need to shut down the thread.  I'm just bringing back objectivity here.

Guest and others...some of what you said, might feel pretty triggering to the person is was about.

If X came to this board and was talking to another person inadvertantly about how I posted, saying "well, I understand how you feel...we BOTH know what happened and I don't blame you for feeling betrayed, hurt, etc"...all that is, is an underlying way of "gitting" the person who is reading it.  If person A gets with person B, and says that in front of person "C" it's almost like a secret code language, to let person "C" know that both people are in agreement against her.  THINK ABOUT IT.  Could it be possible that some N-tactics might be infiltrating this board through a person/s?

We all must continually examine how we say things and what we say as well as the WHY we say them.  That is hard for those who have been steeped in n's ways since childhood or who have been severely traumatized and only know how to use subtle punishing methods when feeling attacked.

Just a thought and my perception of things at this point.

~Laura

[Portia]

Hi Guest 101

I didn’t say that I wasn’t posting as Guest 101 because it didn’t occur to me that anyone might think I was. Just like I haven't proclaimed here that I am in fact not a goat. Or bookcase. Or cheese sandwich. I might be a tree, but that's my business.

My first ‘laughter’ post probably might seem a bit strange to some reading, but then, I am a bit strange (in a good way, mostly, I think).

I’m not sure anyone thinking that I was talking to myself makes Guest101 look ‘bad’, it might make ‘Portia’ look ‘bad’ (or indeed, mad)! Thanks for putting the record straight.


Hi Laura/ReallyMe

Very serious now: I’m not a believer Laura but if it happens to me, I will try to come here and say so. If there is a Board to tell at that point, if it happens. Blessings back to you though, we are all in the same boat.


Hi Izzy, no problems and no hard feelings. Thanks.

[guest101]

TT, I love it when a conversation comes full circle.

however, my post wasn't about addressing your feelings.

I pulled this line from your post because it points to exactly what I was trying to point out in my original post and explains why your post didn't help me at all. 

I wasn't looking for a synopsis about the limitations of the board and while that might have exonerated you and others who post here of any feelings of responsibility or consideration for the way you post when a person reaches out in pain, again, it didn't help me at all.

In your post #127 and others, you reflect on the way you've presented yourself thus far on this thread.  Good for you!  I'm beginning to hear your heart.  I'm identifying with you.  #130 not so good.  A lot of blaming and shaming, playing the victim.
7)  From the start of this thread, I sensed an underlying theme of exaggerated victimhood in your posts.  #175 seems to back up that sense.
7)  Responding to your invite post # 161.  Honestly.
Cool  I  also wanted to point out that I'm as "anonymous" as anyone else is on this board.  My handle is my handle, and whether it's guest101 or G101 or Mary it's still me.   That seemed obvious to me from the start, which begs to question what was behind the hidden identity sham/drama?

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me.  I think there's a problem of perception between you and I.  I also hear  judgment in your words.

I'm not here to prove to you that my feelings are genuine and I feel that your assessment of "exaggerated victimhood" (oh, get over it already) is due to the fact that the feelings I bring up are uncomfortable for you; one you'd rather not feel in yourself -- therefore you reject them in me as you do in yourself. 

There is no sham/drama -- but I recognize that where you are in your life, that is what you see.

I do not accept the exaggerated victim label.

I do not accept the sham/dramak label.

I do not accept the blame and shame label.

Having a discussion about how what I wrote might have made you feel is very different than taking a position of authority to dissect my post and tell me where I went wrong; what I'm doing and thinking and by extension, feeling.






You know, I can't take care of the board by myself.  I ask people to consider something for the benefit of the board when posting and I am attacked -- right away my intention and integrity is called to question.

I talk about my own pain and in large part by many people it is ignored.  Right away my intention and integrity is called to question.

Then it comes full circle to a lesson on how to post and what to post fully equipped with links of explanation.

There is a RIGHT spirit operating here, not an understanding one.

I reject that RIGHT spirit because I am not interested in logical debates I'm more interested in talking about how I feel and how others feels.








Laura, I get what you're saying but it's a minefield, addressing my own issues while simultaneously trying to be aware of how a stranger coming to this board might react. 

I thank you for bringing up the subject about what the "person" in question might think if they strolled through this forum --

what is more amazing is now that I've said like three times I want to drop the subject of what happened to me and what I felt about it , people just keep bringing it up.

Any newcomers to this board, will have no clue who is who and what is being debated or discussed.  I'm not saying that you need to shut down the thread.  I'm just bringing back objectivity here.

Seeing a person respond w/ integrity and confidence to toxic bullying behavior might be helpful to them.





Portia,

You might not have noticed but Izzy accused me of being you, that is why I corrected her otherwise wouldn't my behavior be quite mad?

To refute an accusation that hadn't been made?  And I said if I was you that would make you quite mad -- I think you read it wrong.  It was exactly what Izzy was saying, that I was keeping this thread a live by talking to myself. 

I'm sorry but I don't have the desire, strength or inclination to go back through this thread and find the post for you, but unless it has been alerted or erased (something that happens here) -- it's still there.

[Portia]

Hi Guest101,

yes I saw the post but not until you'd answered. You said:

I'm surprised Portia didn't say as much as it would make her quite mad -- talking to herself.

It might make me appear mad, but it wouldn't make me mad. Yes?

Anyway, do I really care very much about what anyone wants to assume about me, really? Is an assumption an accusation? I didn't feel accused. I was slightly curious as to why anyone might think you were me, because imo, you don't sound like me at all!

[guest101]

Portia
I didn't post much on this thread, as a guest101 could have been anybody--someone I was very close to, who chose to ignore me, or someone whose posts I never answered because our problems were so far apart.

I am not much into surprises, but I needed an answer if I were to continue.

My answer was that guest101 was Portia---but why be so secretive?

...and that led me to believe there was a conspiracy going on, so I ignored the thread
izzy

I am sorry Portia. your reaction made me think it was you and you never denied it.

Whatever, I can scarcely remember, but if I had seen you as a new member with this name and who told us why you were here woiuld have been different.

Granted, any person on this board can use any name and shoot all kinds of BS, to gain attention, continuously, repeating over and over on ever thread and then feeling adulated...... almost like an N.

I ever wondered if guest 101 was one of those.

I am NOW finished with the thread, especially when I see you taking to yourself, to keep the thread alive.
izzy

is that an accusation or an assumption - it seems pretty clear to me to be the former.  you don't deny an assumption.   

[Portia]

Mmmm I agree with you there. I guess if I'd have read these posts as they happened, i would have said i wasn't you, or maybe I would have said: "why do you think I'd be posting as Guest101?". Oh well.

You said you were surprised i hadn't said something, well, now you know why. I hadn't read it.

[Ami]

I am not saying to end this thread. Someone misunderstood me. It hit me today that it would be good to have threads on the underlying issues. For example, there could be a thread on betrayal and how betrayal molded us and our lives. There could be one on rejection ,being left out,bullying, etc. All these life issues have made  us who we are. We have all suffered from all of them. They usually have a root in childhood and then we replay them with other people( spouse, friends) during our lives. We are almost on an auto-pilot and keep wondering why these painful themes keep repeating.
  The only way out,I think, is to heal the original pain. So, I think that it might be really helpful to everyone to address these themes in their lives. .
 Just a thought                                                        Love  Ami

[guest101]

"this is called the Indian talking stick.

it was given to me by Indian chiefs after praying w/ them for several days.  they run Indian nations in N. America states and Canada.

they even gave me my name:  Bald Eagle.

it's authentic.  specially carved.  beautiful.

but you can use a pencil, you can use a spoon, a conch  -- anything.

the whole idea of it -- and they taught to this to the founding fathers -- the most powerful communication idea and technique I have ever found.


ever.


how many people ever in meetings when you can just feel the hidden agendas operating.

I always like to break that down fast.

how would you like to heal divisions in your own family?

  two kids that are quarrelingw/ each other.

just do this:

you just go up and you say to the other person:

You've got the talking stick.

I can't say anything.

Maybe I can ask a question to see if I do understand your point.

But I can't make my point.  I can't agree.  I can't disagree.

All I can do is communicate until you feel understood.

As soon as you feel understood on your point, then you pass the talking stick or pencil or whatever to me.

Now it is my turn.

And you are quiet.

And you listen with empathy.

Until I feel understood.

As soon as I feel understood I pass it back to you.

Until you feel understood then you pass it back to me.

Now what happens is literally it transforms defensive, negative energy into creative transforming energy.

Here's why:

When you really listen to another in depth until they feel understood you are communicating their worth, their potential --

you are affirming them

it is so therapeutic

so healing

that they cannot fight you

and they gradually become more and more open

try it tonight w/ your loved ones.

you see two kids fighting just walk up to the smaller one and say,

`Honey, you got the pencil.  No one can talk until you feel understood.

and then as soon as you feel understood

and WE make your point to your satisfaction then you pass it to your older sister or brother

just try it

you think it takes time?

it will save so much time!

and in your meetings that you go to basically you say

let's agree to the simple ground rule that no one can make his or her point until they restate the other person's point

to his or her satisfaction."

Thank you TT for providing that excellent link.

TT I will tell you I do not feel heard and understood.

I do not feel from you, that you've restated  my point.  I don't feel that my worth and potential has been affirmed.

Do you feel that you've done that?   

Do you feel that you have listened to me with empathy?

Because I do not feel that you have done that, and that many others have done that.

And it is for this reason that I have not opened up.

Thank you again for providing a link to an example of an excellent illustration of effective emotional communication. 

[guest101]

sorry, here's the link that TT provided:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUxi-Zc45tA in her post here:  http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=5219.msg83123#msg83123

[guest101]

some more about me.

in the past, as I mentioned in the Betrayal thread, if I brought up a betrayal that had occurred in my family, a violation or an emotional need, not only was it NOT addressed or met but I was ridiculed for having the need and punished.

The punishments were as follows:

ostracizing me.

ignoring me.

criticizing my reaction to my needs being ignored (you're too sensitive; you're a cry baby; you're so angry  -- of course, anyone would be sensitive, sad and angry about being ignored or ostracized but that's besides the point in a dysfunctional FOO)

silencing me

gas lighting me (telling me something that clearly happened didn't)


Then if I withdrew from contact with my family because of their behavior towards me they criticized me for that!

The criticisms were as follows:

You're too sensitive.

You take things too seriously.

You're too needy.

You're too demanding.

You're controlling.


I was too aloof, I didn't want to be part of the family, I didn't know how to act properly around them so that I could be part of the family.

(This means play nice, don't ask for much, don't draw attention to yourself, don't have opinions or feelings and God forbid needs but in a dysfunctional family this is never said outright.)


Then if I came back and tried to interact with them (that means their guilt campaign worked and overruled my need to protect myself from their toxic behavior) if I had any further needs I was supposed to of course ignore it for the benefit of the family. I was supposed to forget all about what had happened and pretend nothing went wrong.  Forget about healing past hurts.  That was NOT happening.

Of course, being a normal child with NEEDS that was impossible.

so it was back to beginning,

punishing,

ostracizing,

ignoring.


My family then labeled me as the troublemaker.  They felt (pretty accurately) that whenever I was around "something" came up.

My needs became reclassified as my "looking for trouble"

They could not for the life of them understand what was constantly coming up was my having natural, normal needs which of course every child had and of course  needed to be met and their constant frustration of those needs FOR THEIR OWN SELFISH PURPOSES.


The purpose of my familiy's behavior towards me was to either get me to fall in line or get rid of me -- but when I distanced myself from them they accused me for it.

They said:  See, I told you she just wanted to cause trouble.

This is an example of being DAMNED IF YOU DO --- DAMNED IF YOU DON'T.

[reallyME]

Guest, I read your post here, and I must say that I can identify with everything you said, regarding X in my life, whom I'm now going to switch to calling "K" from this point on.

I'd like to share some things so that maybe you might feel just a little more "related to" and validated.

guest101
Guest

in the past, as I mentioned in the Betrayal thread, if I brought up a betrayal that had occurred in my family, a violation or an emotional need, not only was it NOT addressed or met but I was ridiculed for having the need and punished.

>>>>>If I ever said anything to K about how she treated her child or even me, she would either A.) ignore me and not respond  B.) try to justify her treatment  C.) tell me that I was misunderstanding what I was seeing.

The punishments were as follows:

ostracizing me.

ignoring me.

Same for me.  The ostracizing doesn't come till the end with K though...after she has found her next supply source to replace you with. 

I was definitely ignored by her, to a point that I'd say it appeared that she was dissociating from me.  She'd turn her back to me or just walk on past me and talk to her family, hugging them, being smiley, while acting as though I wasn't even in the room.

criticizing my reaction to my needs being ignored (you're too sensitive; you're a cry baby; you're so angry  -- of course, anyone would be sensitive, sad and angry about being ignored or ostracized but that's besides the point in a dysfunctional FOO)

Yep.  She didn't call me a cry-baby.  Her thing was to tell you that you were clinging and whiny.  She justified letting me cry alone, by saying "if I came and hugged you and told you it would be already, I'd be "FEEDING" your dependency on me."

silencing me

gas lighting me (telling me something that clearly happened didn't)

K wanted to silence me from telling others what really went on in her home.  At one point she told me that I should be very grateful, because she was going to report ME for stalking HER, because I had kept trying to get her to talk to me rather than ignore me.  (I'm one who wants to talk things out, not ignore them and let "time" take care of them)

Then if I withdrew from contact with my family because of their behavior towards me they criticized me for that!

When I pulled away from K and her family, I think she sensed that I was not happy or pleased with the treatment I was getting, so then she UPPED the mocking of me, the criticism of my husband, the false accusations, etc.

The criticisms were as follows:

You're too sensitive.

You take things too seriously.

You're too needy.

You're too demanding.

You're controlling.

Yes...K told me that I was too "needy" and that I was expecting too much of her...that "this is how we live everyday, Laura.  What were you expecting and wanting to see?"  (keep in mind she had set me up for this wonderful "ministry" experience, and, not one thing I did there, had anything to do with "her" ministry.  I really didn't see any evidence that she even HAD a ministry, while I was there.) 

As far as being accused of being "too controlling"...this didn't come until after I began exposing her narcissism.  She would say "look at THIS.  now WHO is the real Narcissist here?"  (At that point, I had learned to "fight fire with fire" and, yes, it almost seemed like I was turning into K"

I was too aloof, I didn't want to be part of the family, I didn't know how to act properly around them so that I could be part of the family.

Now, with you, Guest, you WERE actually born into the family...but, you could be actually describing to a TEE what K's daughter must have felt.  She was from the former husband, and nothing like her siblings.  K resented her because she could not be conformed to be what K wanted her to be.  The daughter did very much stay separate from the "family" since she would be mistreated anyway.

 Same for me...after a while, I had no clue what the "unspoken family rules" were  (basically, they were "when grandma walks into the door, all eyes on her, drop everything, make it look like we didn't just have a major fight with each other, be the perfect "children")  I wasn't even one of K's children, but I was expected to follow suit with the rest of them.  I had NEVER EVEN SEEN SUCH A THING IN MY LIFE!  It was as though K and her mother were the GODDESSES of that house.  Almost like a mafia type home situation.  I did play along though, to try and "when in Rome, do as the Roman's do."  Felt like I was lying the entire time to K's mother, when she'd say "you ladies havin a good time?' and I'd respond with "uh huh."  (I didn't realize that, behind the scenes, K had been filling her mother in on how AWFUL it was to have me in her home!)

(This means play nice, don't ask for much, don't draw attention to yourself, don't have opinions or feelings and God forbid needs but in a dysfunctional family this is never said outright.)

The weird thing about my situation, was that, no matter what I did or said, it was twisted around to make me look CRAZY.  No, needs were NOT discussed much in K's house.  SHE was the one who the family revolved around CLEARLY, and I even told her this.  I said "your family treats you like a QUEEN, K"  She said "i don't like it when you say that.  It's not TRUE."  (do I hear the cracking of EGGSHELLS?)

Then if I came back and tried to interact with them (that means their guilt campaign worked and overruled my need to protect myself from their toxic behavior)

I ALWAYS was the one running back to K and apologizing.  Oh, she'd apologize to me too, but only cause she could not STAND the guilt of having hurt me...she didn't feel BAD about it, but she sure didn't like those feelings trying to dig their way to the surface in her heart.  She was taught that she was NOT to have those feelings nor to let on that she did...having been raised under the public and family eye as a minister's kid.

if I had any further needs I was supposed to of course ignore it for the benefit of the family. I was supposed to forget all about what had happened and pretend nothing went wrong.  Forget about healing past hurts.  That was NOT happening.

Me too.  I was told to be thankful that she was giving me another chance, that she was just going to live like it never happened, and I should too.  I was also threatened that if any of what happened in her home, got out in public, her husband and her would make things very bad for me.  thankfully, they can't legally do that, since I'm not using names.  Honestly, they DO have connections that could screw me over BIG TIME!

My family then labeled me as the troublemaker.  They felt (pretty accurately) that whenever I was around "something" came up.

OH, not only was I "labeled" a trouble maker at K's house.  I was told that I was always having "issues" every day.  When I didn't say a word to K's husband, he would ask me questions till I finally admitted having a problem in an area, then he'd say "see?  I TOLD you...like I SAID, always an ISSUE with you!"  (at that point, not having realized the cycling set-up he just did on me, I began to revert back to that helpless person that only HE and K could help)  The thing is, K and her husband constantly told me I had issues but that they did not KNOW how to help me nor if there was help for me.

My needs became reclassified as my "looking for trouble"

I was definitely seen as the one who "stirred things up" in people's houses.

They could not for the life of them understand what was constantly coming up was my having natural, normal needs which of course every child had and of course  needed to be met and their constant frustration of those needs FOR THEIR OWN SELFISH PURPOSES.

In my case, it was not normal needs of a child...it was normal needs of a friend coming up in me.  It was normal needs of a visitor or guest to K's home...a guest who did NOT know what K expected, and when I did try and meet the needs I did know, K twisted things around to make me feel that I still messed up in trying to please her.  If she KNEW I was doing things to try and please her, she made it clear that there would be NO REWARD coming to me for doing so.  It was all just TWISTED with her.

This is an example of being DAMNED IF YOU DO --- DAMNED IF YOU DON'T.

Exactly what I said to K in the end.  Her response in a very lethargic voice "I don't understand what you mean, girlie"  (was she BLIND?  was she DUMB?  was she PLAYING WITH MY MIND?)  I don't know, but it felt like living a NIGHTMARE of bait n switch and double-binds, unspoken rules, gaslighting, false accusations, mocking, never measuring up, etc.

My heart goes out to you, Guest!  I've been where you are, in a sense, though with a "friend" not a parent or family