Can we learn? Boundaires!!!!

[Lupita]

This is so beautiful, that I have to post it. Is not mine, but from a nice friend. To start a thread on boundaries.

http://www.sideroad.com/Self_Help/setting-boundaries.html

http://www2.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/tows_past_20010205.jhtml

"We deserve to be protected.  We missed the boat on having the normal family protection network and it's unfair we weren't raised to think about boundaries and protecting ourselves.

We have to learn to fend off the people who are in traditional positions of trust in our lives.  So so sad and it's so confusing to even come to grips with it much less overcome that.

Anwya..... then, if we can make really good choices and not let unworthy people in, I'm pretty sure nice things will eventually come to us.  The trick seems to be identifing the bad and saying NO so we have room for the good bc it comes along too, we're just usually enmeshed with unhealthy people and aren't able to see beyond it. "

[Lupita]

Again for example, the only humor he was exposed in his unhappy home was the unfunniness of sarcasm. Life with a narcissist left even his normal parent with nothing to laugh about, except - you guessed it - sarcasm. But again, if you ask him to stop it, he takes the message deeply to heart. Again you find yourself trying to make him feel less bad about it. Again his behavior changes. Whereas a narcissist's never does.

When the child of a narcissist leaves home, it takes a while for his own, natural sense of humor to germinate and grow in a new environment that is not hostile to it. The good news is that, by the time they reach their thirties, the normal children of narcissists often display a sense of humor more witty and charming than that of most other people. Perhaps because they themselves appreciate it so much.

Again for example, the child of a narcissist may not accept praise or compliments gracefully. He is unused to them! Like anything extraordinary in our world, this extraordinary event throws him off balance. He has never learned to simply say, "Thank you."

Like a narcissist, he may protest that he doesn't deserve it. But his reason for doing so is the opposite of a narcissist's. It's not because he feels it would humiliate him to say "Thank you." It's because this praise or compliment conflicts with a long history of judgments against him as being inadequate. He may suspect flattery. This goes with what I said above about the daughters of male narcissists doubting professions of love.

Here again, the difference between him and a narcissist is easily demonstrated. If the other party takes the bull by the horns in the direct approach and responds with, "Why don't you just say 'Thank you?'" or "I am not flattering you. I really mean it" the child of a narcissist ponders his behavior and changes it. A narcissist never does.

The normal parent can do much to ease her child's adaptation to the real world by watching for such behaviors and teaching him to cope with these situations in interactions with normal people. It is as easy as saying, "When somebody compliments you, just say 'Thank you.'"

[Lupita]

For example, the child of a narcissist may impolitely enter a room talking to interrupt the extant conversation. He hasn't been taught that this is bad manners. To the contrary, his (dominant) narcissistic parent did that twenty times a day. Also, he has found it so hard to get attention that he feels he must hijack it.

The difference between him and a narcissist, however, is easily demonstrated. If you ask him to stop it, he takes the message deeply to heart. In fact, you will find yourself trying to make him feel less bad about it. His behavior will change. A narcissist's never does. To contrary, if you ask a narcissist to stop doing something, he does it all the more.

[Lupita]

You may think that this does not make sense. It does. Those are the reasons we do not know how to set boundaries. I do not know them. When somebody enforces their boundaries with us we have no idea what in the world is happening. We are used to the abuse.  We are used to be objects. My mother entered my room any time. I never had a room on my own, my sister and I had it together. My mom had prohibited to close the door. Never. She went through my stuff all the time and took whatever she wanted and then she said that I most have forgotten it somewhere else. There I am looking for something like crazy, thinking I am going nuts. And she knew.
That is why I behave like a worm, going on the floor picking crumbs and people step on me.
Or when something happens and your mother tells you that it is your imagination that it never happened. You do believe you are going bananas.

Like Ami said, you have to believe that it was lies. It was lies.

There is no way that we are going to be able to set boundaries.

Like lighter says, little by little. On assertive behavior a day. Today I have to call O’s mom and tell her that I have something. I do not want to offend her. I just do not want to be with her.

Oh God, I am so scared. It is stupid.

[Lupita]

There are basically three parts to a boundary. The first two are setting the boundary - the third is what you will do to defend that boundary.

Part 1]  If you - Is a description of the behavior you find unacceptable [being as descriptive as possible].

Part 2]  I will - Is a description of what action you will take to protect and take care of yourself in the event the other person violates the boundary.

Part 3]  If you continue this behavior I will - Is a description of what steps you will take to protect the boundary that you have set.

[Hopalong]

Thanks for this great review, Lupita.

I think we can never read too little about boundaries.
Even if it's the same simple things over and over...

That's what I need.

This is wonderful stuff.

love,
Hops

[Lupita]

Exactly!!!!!!!!! 
And that is what makes me upset.
You knew about it.
I did not. It is totally new for me. Tatally new.
I did not even know that boundaries existed.

I hope to find somebody else who did not know.

50 years old. And when O got on my car changed my air condition, my music, complained about my driving, yell at me if I could have passed in yellow and I stopped bc I was afraid to get cought on red.
Hermother did the same until I recntly told her not to touch my air conditioned.

I did not know about boundaries until I came to the website. And when somebody enforced boundaries towards me I have no idea what was going on.

Hopalong, you knew it. I did not. Some way you learned it.

[bigalspal]

Lupita,
Thanks so much for the great articles.
Everything I read, I could realate to as a child of an N.
Scary how true it was!
Love,
Bigalspal

[motheroffour]

From a gal who needs boundaries worse than air, thanks!

--mof4

[Hopalong]

Lupita,
Some way, somehow, imo you'll be able soon to turn it around so you feel,

Damn, I'm angry that I didn't know it before today! Okay, done with that.
Now...I am so glad I'm learning it now!

You know? Like...awareness of what you DO have or ARE being given,
rather than just what you DON'T have or AREN'T being given?

Sounds simplistic but imo it can really turn your life around, when you look
at it as a pile of blessings, feeling grateful (not self-loathing translated
into inferiority--but actually, peacefully, grateful)...

Then learning to become free becomes a happier process. Painful moments
are inevitable but you can choose what's going to be the theme. Pain or
gratitude.

What I think, anyway (and I sure don't always do it as I preach it). I do
think about the fact that my mother is 96 and never learned ANY of this.
And I'm 57 and I've had the chance to learn psychology and participate
in 3-D support groups and therapy and this forum.

Grateful's an understatement.

love
Hops

[Lupita]

Trying to set boundaries maybe set us alone, hopefully temporarily. I invited an acquaintance of mine to go to the dance with me but she says that she can go only a couple of ours. I do not want to go for a couple of ours so I told her that I do not want to sacrifice her for me. But I need to go there and leave whenever I want to. Of course if you want company you cannot do whatever you want to. So, I guess I am going to end up going alone. Hope that the people there dont look at me bad bc of going alone.


Learning how to set boundaries is a vital part of learning to own yourself, of learning to respect yourself, of learning to love yourself. If you never have to set a boundary, then you will never get in touch with who you really are - will never learn to define yourself in a healthy way.
No one deserves to be treated abusively. No one deserves to be lied to and betrayed.

We all deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. If you do not respect yourself, if you do not start awakening to your right to be treated with respect and dignity (and your responsibility in creating that in your life) - then you will be more comfortable being involved with people who abuse you then with people who treat you in loving ways.

Learning to set boundaries is vital to learning to love yourself, and to communicating to other's that you have worth.

[Lupita]

Hops, how did you start? When did you open your eyes? When did you recognized that you started to change? Where you selfish in the past?

I havd been rejected so much, for not knowing. I have suffered so much for not knowing. For not understanding when to remain silent and when to open my mouth to change foot.

After so much suffering, and trying to understand what that heck is going on, then I see that I was many times intrusive. Asked too many questions. Pushed too much people. And allow others to do the same to me.

Now at 50, I have to start all over again, new, start building bridges, finding new clubs, after I just found the first club in 30, yes 30 years of my life without interaction. Just work and sleep. Found my first club, as a founder, and I failed to adapt o them because I cannot tolerate unilateral desicions.

With God's help, I will find a group of people who subject things to vote, and go with the majority, with out psychological games, hmmm, I am asking for somethin impossible.

Then I have to adapt, because a group of healthy people who do not play psychological games is going to be impossible.

So, maybe I just have to learn how to deal with the spychological games with out being hurt, and with out sufferin.

Setting boundaries, that I still dont even know what my boundaries are.

I know that I do not want to be asked to change my schedule to please others. I have to look busy, and I will jusy not give explanations, just say, sorry I am not available at that time.

I have to think of my boundaries. Not to wait till somebody abuses me and then discover, oh!! That is somehting I do not like!!!

Until somebody calls me 5 times a day and ask me what am i doing and where am I. And usually I explain everything I am doing. Last Sunday ofr th first time I said "why?"

Thank you for all your help Hop. Please, keep helping us. We love you. I love you.

Lupita

[Lupita]

My son is only 20 and he tells me. Mother, you said yes. I took it because you told me I could.

He is my son and probably the only person who really loves me. And even with him I have this problem.

And he made me see that if I say yes, it is not other's fault. They believe that I say yes because I say yes.

I remember my mother giving away my poppy with out telling me. I just got home and my doggy was not there. She gave it away. She said that everything in the house belongues to her, even us, bc she gave birth to us. I felt something was wrong and felt very ungry but I did not know what was going on. When I did something in my house I always included my son.

[Lupita]

In her recent visit, my mother ruined a skelet. I told her that she had to use a plastic spatula for that kins of skelet. She did not care. My skelet is ruined. I know she had one and hse took good care of it. Why did she ruined mine?

Not only that, but she was doing it in front of me and my son. She was using a regular soup spoon with that skelet in front of us, serving my son, she wanted me to yell at her in front of my son, so she can start crying and show my son how bad I am.

I am starting to relize six weeks after her departure. It took me sex weeks.

That is too much. I need to recognize the situation on time, to anticipate my response, so I can be safe and healthy.

[motheroffour]

Setting boundaries, that I still dont even know what my boundaries are.


I have to think of my boundaries. Not to wait till somebody abuses me and then discover, oh!! That is somehting I do not like!!!



Lupita,

 I know this frustration.  I have decided that I do know what my boundaries are somewhere inside of myself and that my feelings are trying to tell me what they are.  Sometimes I have been frustrated that I didn't know what they were until the abuse happens and I discover too late.  Luckily and benevolently, life seems to repeat itself so I can learn.   I find myself writing it down.  Maybe that is what you are doing with the board.  I have found that my boundaries are showing themselves to me as I listen to my real feelings and stop dismissing them as things I don't deserve or things that are stupid and unimportant.  Sometimes my fear and my protections and my panic prevents me from listening to my feelings.  Trying now to be very quiet inside of myself while I am in important and non important conversations.  To slow down my reactions to others and so I can listen to what my boundaries are.  Then I try to make notes to remind myself.  Sounds stupid probably.  But it is working.

--mof4