Is It Always N Behavior to Violate Others' Boundaries?

[BonesMS]

I've just had an eye-opening experience over the weekend while I was attending my graduation ceremony.  My boyfriend did not travel with me to Minneapolis but my other "friend" did, (the one with the Alzheimer mother).  I had my hands full with a LOT to get done while preparing for the ceremony and said "friend" started getting annoying with her non-stop dithering about stuff that were none of her concern.  At one point, she commented that when she gets wound up, she doesn't listen very well.  I told her that I notice that BIG TIME!

Since I was getting a Master's, part of my regalia includes a hood with certain colors on it to signify which school I am graduating from.  Said "friend" decided to dither with it without asking me first and, in the process, pulled a button off of it!  (This is within minutes before we were about to line up to march in.)  I yelled at her to back off and got a blank stare in return.  I got a temporary "fix" from one of the school employees that were assigned to help us with our regalia and got it adjusted.  A few minutes later, said "friend" is back and started to reach for the hood again.  I turned around and told her to leave it alone.  She attempted to get behind me anyway while starting to make another grab at it again!  This time, I spun around and put my hands out to PHYSICALLY STOP HER while yelling louder:  "LEAVE IT!!!!!"  Again, I get the "blank stare".  My colleagues, who were graduating with me, were giving her funny looks.  When she finally left to go to the auditorium, my colleagues asked me what was her problem that she could not keep her hands off of my regalia.  (They were also getting psych degrees.)  We finally decided that it must be some sort of OCD where she felt compelled to invade other people's boundaries in an attempt to force them to do what she wants.

On the flight home, I was holding my mortarboard in my hands as I couldn't pack it without damaging it.  I had worn it through the airport as it was easier to work with it that way and I could protect it better.  Said "friend" attempted to insist on sticking it inside some magazine.  I was trying to doze as I was exhausted and I told her to leave it.  She went ahead, grabbed a magazine, and started to pull my mortarboard out of my hands!  I yanked back and told her quite bluntly, again, LEAVE IT!!!!  She, again, gave me the blank stare.  She didn't speak for the rest of the flight and I didn't care.  I was outraged that she would actually physically invade my space and attempt to FORCE me to do what SHE wanted with MY regalia!  Sheesh!!!!

Bones

[JanetLG]

Bones,

Sounds like, as well as being a pain in the bum, she was so dead jealous of you, that she felt she had to physically destroy the outward signs of your achievement.

Congratulations on your graduation! What subject is your Masters in?

Janet

[changing]

"SHE wanted...MY regalia" . There you have it. And she became the center of attention, rather than the most excellent Bones, through her antics! Do not invite her when you are awarded your doctorate! (send an announcement card AFTERWARD, with the wrong  date and address on it just to be sure)

Sorry you had to deal with this on your day of TRIUMPH. I love how you stood up for yourself. Still, nothing can dim the brightness of your victory... HIP HIP HOORAY BONES!!!!

Hugs,

Changing

[BonesMS]

Bones,

Sounds like, as well as being a pain in the bum, she was so dead jealous of you, that she felt she had to physically destroy the outward signs of your achievement.

Congratulations on your graduation! What subject is your Masters in?

Janet

Thanks, Janet!

In answer to your question, I now have a Masters of Science degree in Addiction Psychology.  Now I'm debating on whether or not to go for a PhD.

Bones

[BonesMS]

Bones congratulations!

I think that we all have to struggle w/ our egos and sometimes, depending on who it is and what the trigger is we lose big time.

sounds like your friend got KO'd by her ego.

there is narcissism in all of us -- I guess it's the old adage - do we feed it or starve it?

I believe if we can be honest about our feelings and act from a position of emotional honesty, we can question our thoughts before they become negative actions.

Sounds like your friend didn't do this.

When you questioned her, she didn't have an answer because she hadn't stopped to think about what she was doing.

On a very subconscious level I think she wanted the regalia for herself. 

Atleast that's what I sense.

Does she have a degree in anything?

Thanks, Authentic!

Come to think of it, I don't think she has a degree in anything as she's never really FINISHED anything.  At one point, she complained about her supervisor suggesting that she take a class in Time Management (she is perpetually late).  I responded that she NEEDS that class!

I think your assessment is spot on as she often acts on impulse WITHOUT thinking then gives a blank stare every time she gets called on her behavior.

Bones

[JanetLG]

Bones,

That's so interesting! What were some of the areas you studied? It'd be great when you get to use the knowledge in a job (I've seen your other thread about the problems you've been having...).

I got a degree in Social Science four years ago. The best part, for me, was a year doing criminology. All the social issues and politics stuff in the course meant I could never watch TV or read a newspaper in the same way again - it's all manipulation!

The skills you learn doing study at that level are useful in so many more areas than just learning academic subjects - do you agree?


Janet

[BonesMS]

"SHE wanted...MY regalia" . There you have it. And she became the center of attention, rather than the most excellent Bones, through her antics! Do not invite her when you are awarded your doctorate! (send an announcement card AFTERWARD, with the wrong  date and address on it just to be sure)

Sorry you had to deal with this on your day of TRIUMPH. I love how you stood up for yourself. Still, nothing can dim the brightness of your victory... HIP HIP HOORAY BONES!!!!

Hugs,

Changing

Thanks, Changing!

I'm ready to tell her, you want to mess with regalia??????  GET YOUR OWN!!!!!  LEAVE MINE ALONE!!!!  The more I analyze what she was doing, the more Freudian it gets!

Bones

[gratitude28]

Bones,
A HUGE congratulations on your degree!!!! Yes, she was completely invading your space and, like others said, putting herself in your place.
My mother follws me around the house if we are ever together - literally. If I turn on a light, she turns it off. If I am cooking, she gets in front of me and mixes up what I have put together. No matter where I am, she invades my space and is DELIGHTED when I get irritated.
(((((((((((((((((Bones))))))))))))))
Love, Beth

[BonesMS]

Bones,

That's so interesting! What were some of the areas you studied? It'd be great when you get to use the knowledge in a job (I've seen your other thread about the problems you've been having...).

I got a degree in Social Science four years ago. The best part, for me, was a year doing criminology. All the social issues and politics stuff in the course meant I could never watch TV or read a newspaper in the same way again - it's all manipulation!

The skills you learn doing study at that level are useful in so many more areas than just learning academic subjects - do you agree?


Janet

Thanks, Janet!

Some of the areas I studied, for this degree, were in Psychopharmacology, Issues and Trends in Addiction, Substance Abuse Program Evaluation, Principles of Psychopathology, Substance Abuse Theories among many others that were addictions related.  I also took extra courses in order to meet the state requirements for licensure/certification.  I'm trying to get my clinical hours out of the way and that turned out to be another headache with the company I'm currently working for.  I'm still job hunting in the hope of finding what I need a LOT closer to home.

Bones

[DreamSinger]

Congratulations, Bones! I never completed college, so i admire others who have that stick-to-itness. As for your friend, I agree sounds like jealousy and competition for attention to me. I had a "friend" who used to come to see me sing a few times, back in the day when I was in top 40 bands. She always tried to make me laugh when I was on stage. She'd stare at me and then when she caught my attention, she'd hold my eye and begin to smirk, which would then turn into giggling like we were in high school again or something.

I was so nervous then that I'd start to feel myself want to giggle back and it was everything I could do to stop from messing up. I remember trying to avoid her stare, but it was hard because she never let up. I didn't see it as a reflection of any ill will then. I mean, after all, she was my friend.

Now, I know better. Friendship is no protection against envy. Sometimes it's the breeding ground for it.

I'd think twice about inviting her to any more celebratory events for you again. You don't need a "joy sucker" tagging along!

~DreamSinger

[BonesMS]

Come to think of it, I don't think she has a degree in anything as she's never really FINISHED anything.

Well, there you go.

My girlfriend, she recently graduated w/ a masters in Social Work.  as she walked down the street to the car (we were going out to eat to celebrate) a sweet  elderly man asked her:

Did you gradutate today.

My friend started to answer and her mom jumped in (N to the T):  Yes, we graduated today.  We got our degree.

In the car my friend got stick, started vomitting.  Celebration dinner cancelled!!!

I'm glad that didn't happen w/ you.

Thanks, Authentic!

I managed to enjoy myself in spite of her behaviors.

Bones

[BonesMS]

Bones,
A HUGE congratulations on your degree!!!! Yes, she was completely invading your space and, like others said, putting herself in your place.
My mother follws me around the house if we are ever together - literally. If I turn on a light, she turns it off. If I am cooking, she gets in front of me and mixes up what I have put together. No matter where I am, she invades my space and is DELIGHTED when I get irritated.
(((((((((((((((((Bones))))))))))))))
Love, Beth

Thanks, Beth!

Isn't it interesting that some N's delight in pushing our buttons while others, like this "friend" starts putting on the pseudo-stupid routine when confronted?

Bones

[BonesMS]

Congratulations, Bones! I never completed college, so i admire others who have that stick-to-itness. As for your friend, I agree sounds like jealousy and competition for attention to me. I had a "friend" who used to come to see me sing a few times, back in the day when I was in top 40 bands. She always tried to make me laugh when I was on stage. She'd stare at me and then when she caught my attention, she'd hold my eye and begin to smirk, which would then turn into giggling like we were in high school again or something.

I was so nervous then that I'd start to feel myself want to giggle back and it was everything I could do to stop from messing up. I remember trying to avoid her stare, but it was hard because she never let up. I didn't see it as a reflection of any ill will then. I mean, after all, she was my friend.

Now, I know better. Friendship is no protection against envy. Sometimes it's the breeding ground for it.

I'd think twice about inviting her to any more celebratory events for you again. You don't need a "joy sucker" tagging along!

~DreamSinger

Thanks, DreamSinger!

I don't plan on inviting her to anything else any time soon!  She does not seem to comprehend any part of the word "N-O" when she starts behaving inappropriately like she did during the weekend.

Bones

[Gaining Strength]

Bones - CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!  That is Awesome!!!!

Sorry the one person who went with you to add support to your magnificent day actually detracted from your celebration of your magnificent accomplishment.  Now you know and you clearly are good at drawing that boundary.  What ever her problem it is big enough to interfere in a true relationship.  Isn't that sad for her?

Way to go - girl!!!!!

[teartracks]

Dear Bones,

Re:  Is it always N behavior to violate others boundaries?

First your traveling companion exhibited over the top N behavior.

I think we all violate the boundaries of others from time to time, but not maliciously.  The difference is that N's won't hear you when you explain that they have overstepped a boundary.  They will do the same thing over and over again even though you have been clear that their behavior is not acceptable.  They will lie, deny, manipulate, set you up for more,  - well you know the gig, right?

On the other hand, a regular person will hear you when you explain that they have overstepped a boundary, they know that no means no, they will apologize and mean it, correct their behavior, feel remorse, talk it through, pursue mutuality, work with you to clear the air, and so on.  Once the two have talked through the incident, both will feel like they have moved forward.  From there, the normal flow of interaction and communication can take it's healthiest course.

Congratulations on the Masters!

tt