Author Topic: I know you don't... but...  (Read 4435 times)

gratitude28

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I know you don't... but...
« on: August 12, 2007, 07:47:24 PM »
If any of my family members says this to me one more time, I will scream...

I know you don't like winter, but we do... it is so nice... (They have no idea what I like or don't like. They never ask or listen to me. They remember comments I made when I was 14 and think I believe that still).


I know you don't like living in America, but we like having you here... ( I am loving being here... except for being near them...).

I know you don't like movies, but this one is very good... (I like certain movies, but I don't watch a lot of movies or TV).

I know you probably don't care, but your cousin graduated from college... (If it is someone I know, that is nice).

This is a way of making me sound like a cruel bitch all the time. My sister and parents pepper their conversations with me with this phrase. AND THEY DON'T  KNOW ME AT ALL...

Thanks for being here guys... got your own Nism to share?????

Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Gaining Strength

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Re: I know you don't... but...
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2007, 08:08:15 PM »
You know Beth my father was doing that to me this summer while he was hospitalized.  It was so irritating.  I didn't know where he was getting the ideas he was attributing to me nor why he was doing it.  Of all the millions of weird things he has done that is not one of them - it was completely new and I did not like it - one iota. 

I get it and am sorry you are experiencing that. - your friend - Gaining Strength

Certain Hope

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Re: I know you don't... but...
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2007, 08:23:33 PM »
Dear Beth and GS...

What is up with that?

It does feel so patronizing... condescending...
and also, almost, like they're trying to prove that they know you're so different from them (I always felt like the oddball in these situations) but offering you another chance to enter into their world? Gee, thanks.
So odd...
my dad used to always say, "you don't know what you're missing"... as though the only "good" things in the world were those he enjoyed.
And my mother, when recounting one of her many adventurous  :P tales, will preface it with "You may not remember..."
which I always translated as - "I know this story is of absolutely no interest to you, but I'm gonna tell it anyway."

I have a feeling there's alot more to this, but just can't put my finger on it.

Ami

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Re: I know you don't... but...
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2007, 08:57:19 PM »
I think that the "more to it" as Hope says is that they are doing what Janet's sister is trying to do.Beth was probably the one who tried to tell the "truth". So, she has to be marginalized . She has to be put in the "them " box (with the us versus them mentality).
   I think that this is simply a way to make her be an outsider to the "group. That way when she tells the "truth"-- she will not be listened to by them( or anyone else)  Just a thought .    Love    Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

lighter

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Re: I know you don't... but...
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2007, 09:03:09 PM »
Sounds frustrating G.

I know i don't feel heard and i've been working really really hard on communicating so that people don't just ignore me and go right no with what they were doing before: / 

gratitude28

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Re: I know you don't... but...
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2007, 09:15:18 PM »
OMG - I ALWAYS get the "You may not remember" and the "You don't know what you're missing."

I think you are so right - it's a way to keep me separate.

Great insight as always...

Any more you can think of? It really helps me to understand the control they try to exert when I can catch these things. Another one I realized is the "We are just kidding." After they say something cruel or are picking on me they use this one.

Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

changing

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Re: I know you don't... but...
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2007, 09:15:44 PM »
My Dear Lighter,with your wicked turn of phrase, anyone who doesn't notice what you say is a fool!

Gratitude 28! Hello! I am just getting to know you, but I know your family!!!!They are practicing GROUPTHINK, where everyone is coerced into professed thought conformity (whether or not all members of the group truly agree). This tragic practice is dangerous, leads to very bad decisions amd outcomes, and demoralizes the individuals in the group.
It may seem easier to just go along but don't do it, and don't let them play mind games by telling you "what you like"- they are trying to get you to say that you agree with them, etc., then it's on to the next step. You have the upper hand if you tell the truth. Please keep posting!

Best wishes,

Changing

Stormchild

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Re: I know you don't... but...
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2007, 09:20:22 PM »
Ami, you got it in one. It's a very subtle, very insidious form of enemy creation. The underlying message is "you're not one of us, you don't like what we like or value what we value; you are not truly welcome among us; and we are going to assure this by creating a fake personality for you, that we can take pot shots at."

The thing is, this kind of behavior is just insane. Read that description. Sane people don't do this kind of stuff. But... people in groups... from little bitty dyads to entire countries... do this kind of stuff. All. The. Time. Kindergarteners do it, Prime Ministers do it.

Beth, I wish I had a magic wand for you on this one. All I can say is that seeing this stuff clearly will take you through the stages of grieving... there may be a point where you just can't stand seeing them pull this stuff, and then there may be a point where you just can't stand seeing them, period, and then later on there may be a point where you have the kind of reaction Write describes on the "Aha" thread... where basically you see it, label it accurately, are detached from it, and can decide if seeing them is worth the effort it costs you, on a case by case basis.

But you will never be able to fix it or get through to them. It's a 'gang' thing. Gangs need enemies, they need that adrenaline-boosting group reinforcement. If they can't find enemies legitimately, they will manufacture them. It will fix itself if and when they value relating to you more than they value being a gang.

PS: Letting them know you see through the shenanigans may be satisfying, and it may be a necessary step in separating from them psychologically, but don't expect it to 'get through' to them quickly, if at all. When a gang-group's identity is threatened it just intensifies the group's determination to exclude the threat, in the short term anyway. 

PSS: Hi lighter. I hear you ;-). Ignoring is just a tactic... like all tactics, when properly understood it normally tells you more about the ignorer than the ignored. Doesn't make it nice to put up with... but understanding definitely helps.

PSSS: Changing, yes, it is groupthink, Gang style!
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

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Ami

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Re: I know you don't... but...
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2007, 09:34:31 PM »
Dear Beth,
   Reading Janet's e mail from her sister really showed me this quality.Beth, I think that Storm really showed the evolution of the steps to healing from an N ( or N family system).
   The hardest one is to face the truth. You can't "believe" that it is THIS evil. You are in shock.These 'familiar " people are turning in to monsters,right before your eyes. You want to go back in to denial ,but you can't. Then ,you think( my interpretation,of course) that this could be in a book like "People of the Lie". You are shocked to realize that YOUR family could make it in to a book like this.
Then, you realize that you REALLY were abused. You had inklings of it,but you chose to deny it.
Then , you face that there will be nothing from them but further destruction of your already battered self.
Then( this is where I am)you pray to God that you can love and nurture yourself b/c you are ALL that you have.I have personalized your story and it may not be yours at all  . Dismiss what is not right for you. Love  Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Overcomer

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Re: I know you don't... but...
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2007, 09:39:02 PM »
My H always says to me-You do not understand this but I do blah blah blah..Then I want to tell him HE HAS NO IDEA WHAT I DO AND DO NOT UNDERSTAND!  My mom often refers to my "break from reality."  I call it the point when I became aware of reality!
Kelly

"The Best Way Out is Through........and try laughing at yourself"

Certain Hope

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Re: I know you don't... but...
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2007, 09:39:52 PM »
OMG - I ALWAYS get the "You may not remember" and the "You don't know what you're missing."

I think you are so right - it's a way to keep me separate.

Great insight as always...

Any more you can think of? It really helps me to understand the control they try to exert when I can catch these things. Another one I realized is the "We are just kidding." After they say something cruel or are picking on me they use this one.

Love, Beth


Dear Beth,

With my own parents, it seems more like they simply don't realize that I grew up.... and I really feel like... well, of course they don't realize... I never distinguished myself from them in my own mind until much later in life... most notably, when I quit drinking over 2 years ago.

I've encountered similar situations with my own kids, as they've entered teenager-hood  :shock: ... where I've made a statement to them about something I'd considered a fact about their likes or dislikes and I've received their very firm correction. "Yes, actually, I DO like mustard on my burger."
Ohhhkay... lesson received, but the lesson has nothing to do with mustard. The lesson is - "Do not presume that anything which you think you know about me is true because it is your job, Mom, to recognize that I am in a constant state of flux and my likes/dislikes are subject to change without prior notice."    :)   I get it!

My parents don't get it.  :(  I don't think they want to get it  :(
 But I get it  :)   You get it  :)  And you know, tis better to individuate later in life than never to individuate at all.  :)

That's three smiles against two frowns.
Guess who wins.

Love,
Hope



changing

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Re: I know you don't... but...
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2007, 09:55:17 PM »
Gratitude28 and Ami-

This dynamic is so simple yet profound, but its very nature keeps it hidden "right before our very eyes". When Gratitude explained her problem, and Ami showed how we are all vulnerable to falling prey to it, in our innocence as children, and then the difficulty in seeing the real pattern and extricating ourselves as adults due to the intense socialization that we have endured, a mild form of the conflict almost seems like a normal part of becoming an adult individual, except some pathological groups try to prevent  normal growth and change in their children( like the poor children purposely misshapen by keeping them in pots as they grew, to be used as circus freaks as portrayed in Victor Hugo's "1793"). Thankfully, we can free ourselves and make our spirits whole again, despite having families who did not take proper care and tried to warp us for their own purposes. That is why we are learning and helping each other here.

Hugs,

Changing

gratitude28

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Re: I know you don't... but...
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2007, 10:01:18 PM »
(((((((((((((((CH, Lighter, Storm, Ami, Changing, Kell, GS))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Thank you so much. It is harder right now as I am having more contact with them. I want my kids to see for themselves how my parents are - I don't want to put any ideas in their heads. So we are having this "vacation" with them this week. They have already cut it down to three days (I should be thankful and am, but I also know it's because they don't like me). They are coming for three days during the week and then leaving early on Sat to go ont heir vacation with their friends. My son is so disappointed. He thought they were coming to spend a week with him. Like I said, I am staying out of it - I don't want to be responsible for clouding the kids' judgment.

((((((((((((((((((Thanks, guys))))))))))))))))))))))) I am so grateful you are here.

Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

changing

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Re: I know you don't... but...
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2007, 10:09:51 PM »
My Dear G28-

You are not clouding the kids' judgement- you are not being cruel, you are letting them see the truth for themselves. This is an honorable and healthy thing for a mother to do. You do not, should not pass down the lies and family mythology. It's like mother animals training their young for life- the young are given the opportunity to see what is good, what is harmful, etc., the nature of their habitat and other creatures, while the mother remains watching over them , just in case. That way, they are prepared to live well and protect themselves. Go for it, Mama Leopard!!!

Love Changing

Ami

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Re: I know you don't... but...
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2007, 10:18:19 PM »
Dear Beth,
  I agree with Changing. Kids usually sense the truth ,anyway. It is very,very confusing if you try to "distort" the truth. I raised good kids b/c I was always honest( age appropriate).
  I knew from being lied to all the time, that I always knew the truth, down deep.. I just got very confused and lost my faith in myself.
    I think that you are getting wiser than ever, Beth                          Love    Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung