Author Topic: My Feelings  (Read 23069 times)

Certain Hope

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Re: My Feelings
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2007, 08:53:58 PM »
Dear Izzy,

At 15...  I can't remember much about feelings or decisions.
They must be hidden far away, so I'll have to think on that in order to try to relate.
I don't understand why I had such Shyness (shame?) because I didn't have the sort of situation you did... but I sure did hate being singled out!
Offhand I don't remember admiring happy families (or really knowing any?) or looking forward to having one, or weddings, or any thought of such.
My brother who is 10 years older married when I was 10 and I don't recall any feelings at all about that, either.
About all I remember is loads and loads of homework and I think also it was about that time that my dad gave me a small television for my bedroom... at 15-16. I spent alot of time in my room or outside. Friends were into other things by then and I was younger than they, so still... not fitting in. Sheesh, I know there was more than that, but it's escaping me.

I think your sisters were frightened of you, Iz...  yes, wanting to use their spouses as shields to keep distance...
as though they were afraid of what you might say to them alone... guilty consciences? They need bodyguards? Goodness!

When you say you started to analyze at 15, do you mean that's when you stopped feeling? Like you gave up on... yourself - emotionally - and put feelings away?

I have to go pick up kiddo from band practice. You are stumping me over here, Iz, but that's because I can't remember how I felt back then and later, it never would have occurred to me to ask for a private meeting to talk about it. You are way ahead of me in that! Say, what did you hope would come of that meeting which never happened? Did you want your siblings to talk about how they felt about life in your family home? or about you personally?  Sorry, gotta zoom... back soon.

Love,
Hope


isittoolate

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Re: My Feelings
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2007, 09:45:58 PM »
Hi Hope,
I used to have a great link to Shame vs, Guilt.

Anyway, what i remember is that I child will find his life built on shame if he observes his parents doing something wrong, or 'even feels that it is wrong.

So go to church on sunday, listen as told, then watch parents not follow the teachings.
Listen to mom on the phone and what she is saying sounds like something 'bad' about someone else and say nothing (She was gossiping.)
Dad beats with a razor strap, feels awfully painful then the family sits down together for dinner... nothing 'bad' talked about.

That is a base for shame--you feel it but nothing is said!

I don't remember a happy moment. Maybe because it wasn't necessary. But I remember the bad, sad ones as there was never any talk about the shame of it/them.... no resolution.

When I was 15, it was the wedding I was attending that started me to thinking what I did.

Some babies are gentically shy. The parent ought to help to overcome very early on, I say!

I remember sad/bad from age  3-4-5-6-7 then maybe 9-11-13 or 12-14-16. At 7 a baby brother died. I felt that was badly mishandled as we were not spoken to about death....at least I wasn't.

I wondered if someone would say my sisters were afraid to have a sibling meeting.It might have brought out some very bad behaviour that I remember. It might also have shown how there can be FIVE perspectives about a given incident (me doubting what I remember?--yet that's what I remember)

If you don't remember, your time could have be happy enough to not stick in your mind.

Don't we not always think/feel about the bad/the guilt/ the shame/the quarrels/ the embarrassments????? etc????

Oh yes, I do!

later

Gonna watch a new DVD--have a think!!

Thank you

izzy

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« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 09:49:52 PM by isittoolate »

Certain Hope

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Re: My Feelings
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2007, 10:01:01 PM »
(((((((Izzy)))))) 

I have been zooming too much, here and there, to and fro... literally and figuratively.
It's time for me to get to the bottom of this shame/shy business. Next on list.

Of the reasons you mention for shame I see:
Hypocrisy, unreasonable expectations/perfectionism, no beating physically, but emotionally = no input, no feedback, nothing.

I'll start there and have a think, too.

Your memories of sad/bad... all the way from 3-16? Constantly? (You didn't put an age 8 in there)
No explanation of baby brother's death would sure leave alot of questions.
I had a very nice (fairly sane) aunt who explained my grandpa's death to me when I was 6. Later she lost her own 2nd child at only a few hours old and I understood. Nobody else said anything.

Maybe your sisters aren't afraid of you, just afraid to remember. They've put it into its place as they see fit and somehow you went along with it to that place, too... not a pleasant thought, but people have put me into that place with stuff they'd rather forget, I think.

Going for that think, Iz... in the tub.
A tub think.
More hugs to you and thank you, too.

Love,
Hope

Hopalong

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Re: My Feelings
« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2007, 11:54:51 PM »
Hi Izz,
Is there a way you can communicate this need to them without expressing blame?

Blame might stop this closeness that is so precious right now.

I understand how much you need them to "catch up" with who you were and are and what you've been through.

love
Hops

PS--when you were a confused abused kid...they were too.
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

isittoolate

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Re: My Feelings
« Reply #49 on: August 15, 2007, 12:06:00 AM »
Hi Hops,

I am not blaming anyone. I am digging back to see what started which episode. If it was my wetting the bed, so be it. If it was calling me baldy so be it, if it was calling me ol' grayhead so be it,
I cannot see that 5 senior siblings cannot sit down and LAUGH at all this stupidiity, YET somewhere in the pile of junk is the answer for maybe more than for me!

I have told everyone here what happened, but if I said I was not blaming anyone, they could have said, "Well shut up, then! "

You see how the approach can help?

But it was over 20 years ago that I asked for that get together and it was the refusal that hurt more than what I might have found out!

Faith m' dear Faith!

Love
Izzy

Hopalong

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Re: My Feelings
« Reply #50 on: August 15, 2007, 12:28:34 AM »
You got it, Izz.

I got faith in you.

love
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Certain Hope

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Re: My Feelings
« Reply #51 on: August 15, 2007, 09:17:58 AM »
Dear Izzy,

Please pardon my ignorance...

are you wanting to unravel how your siblings saw you at each phase or episode which increased your burden of shame?

One thing that really registers with me about all this is that it is not necessary to sift through for the purpose of blaming anyone...
including our selves.
Thank you for that!

Love,
Hope



isittoolate

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Re: My Feelings
« Reply #52 on: August 15, 2007, 01:18:23 PM »
Hi Hope,
I am not looking to blame anyone.
At 15 I knew somerthing was wrong with me. no therapist was helping.
It was about 20 years ago that I thought a get together of the siblings might help---their spouses were not around when we were growiing up.
No meeting
I was still trying to analyze me, especially after the grave error of hooking up with a Psychopath, 9 years ago and moved away from everyone, 2000 miles, to discover he was a P.
After 4 years I left and went on a extra long search to find out what was wrong. I finally figured it out, and went to a therpist and told her.

She agreed when she questioned me about what happened in all phases of my life. and said it began when I was very young, but each trauma that followed just made me worse--more disconnected, therefore harder to reconnect. (That is where ithe topic veered off course.)

This post began by mentioning some very small steps forward toward trying to feel an emotion rather than think it.
so maybe itisnottoolate.

Love Izzy

Certain Hope

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Re: My Feelings
« Reply #53 on: August 15, 2007, 01:38:21 PM »
Hi Izzy,

I believe you that you are not looking to blame anyone. I never thought that you were.
I did think that you may be very angry... maybe even with yourself.
But now I even believe myself that I am not looking to blame anyone... and I don't feel angry.
That is progress, in my opinion :)

That's what impressed me so much last night... and yet today... because as I sort through these things, I want to be so cautious to not fall into any traps of unforgiveness, because alot of corruption sprouts off of those bitter roots.

I understand what you're saying... at 15, after attending a wedding, you saw yourself as someone who would not have that love and commitment available to her. Something was wrong - not with the world around you, but with you personally, as you saw it.
If I'm correct about your assumptions, do you see now - how that was a lie?
You were not the "wrong" one.

Iz, I left everyone, also... 7 years ago. Moved 1,000 miles away after hooking up with NPD only to discover that he was a malicious fraud.
After 3 years, he left (courtesy of the sheriff's dept.) and my family (with my brother as spokesperson) invited me to return to their area to be near people who would care for me. hah. No thank you. It was most definitely too late for that. From one fraud back to another?

I see your progression... and mine. From one trauma to another, each reinforcing the disconnect. The only thing is, what I disconnected from was the illusion that I was ever feeling anything in the first place. At least that's how it seems. How's that for a veer?? :)

I am pretty sure itisnottoolate.
I feel hopeful.
How do you feel?   :|

Love,
Hope






isittoolate

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Re: My Feelings
« Reply #54 on: August 15, 2007, 02:20:48 PM »
The only thing is, what I disconnected from was the illusion that I was ever feeling anything in the first place.

It's too early here.

Does that mean you were having real feelings all along and didn't know  it?

Certain Hope

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Re: My Feelings
« Reply #55 on: August 15, 2007, 03:29:31 PM »
The only thing is, what I disconnected from was the illusion that I was ever feeling anything in the first place.

It's too early here.

Does that mean you were having real feelings all along and didn't know  it?

No, I don't think so, Izzy.
What I mean is,
I don't think I had any idea how genuine emotions would feel. Or how genuine feelings would emote... lol. I didn't even understand the difference between feelings and emotions, although I know I've read all this before.
Anyhow, there was no example to follow but what was in front of me in the home (zippo), and because shyness prohibited the sharing of any feelings, the feelings just got stuffed and left behind.
It's very difficult to express.

I thought that I loved my parents, but now I see (i think) that was not genuine love at all - it was a codependent sort of need that kept me enmeshed with them. More of a childish desperation, looking for them to give me my identity.

I thought that I loved my kids' dad, but now I see that was also a codependent, needy sort of symbiotic rubbish (see above).

Now I know that I genuinely love my kids, but I can't say whether I acted out of that love in the past or simply out a trained response, although I did do alot of things with and for my children which I did NOT learn from my mother, so there must have been some feelings and intuitions at work, but I was mainly unaware of them.
However it was, I only just recognized how real love for them feels (and evidences itself!) when I went to be with my oldest daughter last month as she was hospitalized. Till then, I had not "felt" love for her in ages, because she is also very, very N'ish and because she was at the hub of a great deal of pain in our family for many years.

And finally, I'm learning through relationship with my husband now, that I was never before given the sort of unconditional, loving acceptance which I'd now define as genuine love. Knowing that, I question everything that's gone before and "feel" like it was all an illusion, with me in robot-mode and not really expressing a single honest feeling as emotion, except maybe to my kids. I know, it's very confusing. Sorry.

Here are some of the resources to which I'm appealing now in order to try to understand this myself, Iz...

http://www.hr.ucdavis.edu/ASAP/Articles/Feelings 
It's about  "Feelings vs. Learned Reactions"

and this one... about the difference between feelings and emotions...
http://www.selfhelprecovery.com/phaseii.htm
I dunno about some of it, but this makes sense to me:

 "There needs to be a clear cut understanding between the differences of Emotions and Feelings. Feelings that are generated as a result of an event or situation is a natural reaction to protect our self, our natural self esteem our boundaries. If you here a rumor that your company may start layoffs and your job may be in jeopardy and you feel some anxiety and fear, this is natural. What you will eventually discover in this program,the right approach would be to actually allow your self to feel what you are feeling and when the feeling clears ( integrates ) you will have a better insight as to what action to take.
 On the other hand if the same situation generates a massive anxiety attack with an overwhelming negative inner dialog…those catastrophic thoughts then you are dealing with an emotion that is attempting to clear. The process as you also will see is to allow your self to feel the pain  to clear it…but normally at this level it will take time to completely clear.  An emotion is a major repressed feeling(s) from the past stored in our body.
A different way to compare the two is an Emotion would be a Hurricane Katrina, a normal Feeling would be a Warm spring shower with a mild wind…"

And then there's this, of which you may already be aware (seems like you are), but I wasn't... and maybe it would help?   http://www.outsmartyourbrain.com/content/view/98/56/

"The more we teach self-control and the suppression of feelings, the more we impede the positive feelings, including happiness and passion, restricting instead of increasing our mental abilities.
BRAIN TIP: The good news is that we can reteach our brains to feel. We can train the brain to “fire-up” and widen the neurotransmitters in the emotional centers through interpersonal activities, complex physical exercise and specific mental and spiritual pursuits.
It takes becoming conscious to our world in the present moment. We have to take the time to acknowledge subtle emotional reactions in the body, such as muscle tenseness, changes in breathing, throat clogging, urges to disconnect and surges in adrenalin. We also have to take the time in our busy days to stop and REALLY listen to those around us, listening for what they are feeling and what they are probably not saying. What is it that they really want and need from us?"

So... it's about creating space for listening, to ourselves and to others.

This is all news to me, so I have alot of study and work and practice to do.
Till then, I'm pretty much spittin into the wind... but maybe some of this will help you, too. I hope so. Sorry too that this is so long, but it's all so tied in together, that I didn't know how else to try to explain.

Love,
Hope






isittoolate

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Re: My Feelings
« Reply #56 on: August 15, 2007, 07:00:59 PM »
Hope,

I cannot read this any other way now than you and I are/were the same ..but I said it in fewer words.

xx
Izzy

EDIT:   OOPS--except you can cry!!

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« Last Edit: August 15, 2007, 07:30:07 PM by isittoolate »

Certain Hope

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Re: My Feelings
« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2007, 08:17:24 PM »
Hope,

I cannot read this any other way now than you and I are/were the same ..but I said it in fewer words.

xx
Izzy

EDIT:   OOPS--except you can cry!!

Izzy  :)  Thank you.  Maybe some day I will learn to be concise, but that's not today.

Yes, I can cry, but maybe not for the right reasons. I'm not sure yet.
Usually crying feels like being sorry for myself and that may not be right reasons... and yet, maybe it's okay.
Also, maybe I punish myself afterwards by going stoic again. Not sure about that either.

Have you fooled your brain yet?  8)

I like your "Hours" sign... need one in my kitchen.
Wanted to tell you yesterday, I enjoy all of your picture attachments. They brighten up my day.
You brighten up my day even.

Reading Iphi's post about cerebral N brought out feelings. Helpless ones. Is helpless a feeling? I don't know.

Love,
Hugs, too,
Hope

teartracks

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Re: My Feelings
« Reply #58 on: August 16, 2007, 12:44:24 AM »



Hi Iz,

Wantng to ask a question.  When you say you don't feel, does that mean the same as I don't experience emotion?  Do you think they are the same?  What do others here think?  Are feelings and emotions the same thing? 

tt

isittoolate

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Re: My Feelings
« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2007, 01:30:00 PM »
Hi tt
I think I have no feelings, as I don't cry. I don't become angry, etc. I sense that I know which feeling it ought to be, but only in my head/mind.

Hope sent those links, 2 posts back, and I read this, which I found very, very interesting:

Feelings are the only means that an innocent infant and a toddler have to communicate with..When the feelings are expressed in the form of crying and or anger and a parent or guardian stops the child from completely expressing these feelings, the feelings become repressed, stuffed into our body forming Emotions. Emotions are feelings that have been suppressed/repressed in our very early years, primarily during our infancy and toddler years. 

A major inner  turmoil forms early when we are taught by our adult caregivers actions not to allow our self to feel our feelings


I think that answers our question because that very thought is expressed on two links, and I am just surprised that this has not come to light before.

I just got into those links last night and have not absorbed them re me. 
Love
Izzy

EDIT

I suspect I am emotionally constipated
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 01:42:15 PM by isittoolate »