Chilly Cerebral N

[finding peace]

Dear Iphi,

Thank you so much for this:

I think it is a mark of your presence of mind and strength of character that you were able to implement some emotional detachment from your dad and maintain it.  That's the striking thing, since so much of these enmeshed issues are so cyclical. 

That brough tears to my eyes. 

Much love to you,
Peace

[Hopalong]

Hi Hope...

I am absolutely convinced that all her health stuff is wrapped up and contained within this prideful denial which she has absolutely refused to confront within herself. And I think that as the only person on this earth who's in a position to say that to her, I'd best spit it out.

Do you mean saying to her, you're ill because you're in denial?
Do you think she will hear you and it'll be healing?

love
Hops

[Certain Hope]

Hi Hope...

Do you mean saying to her, you're ill because you're in denial?
Do you think she will hear you and it'll be healing?

love
Hops

Hi Hops,

Something like that, yes.... only using alot more words (you know me  )
 In her last weekly letter, she asked for prayer.
That was a first. I feel that she's very frightened... and I am praying for her, for the first time in my life, really.

My parents have always been quite religious Christians, at least when it comes to church attendance; but alot of that appears to be empty ritual, absent a personal relationship with Christ.
It's like they have "fire insurance" plus a couple extra riders on their policy, but don't let that interfere with their drinking, or general attitudes toward people. And I feel that she's dying... quickly.

Remember the Israelites? Liberated from Egypt, taken to Sinai for the Word, then 40 years in the wilderness, so many dying without entering Canaan... because of the pride of their hearts, their repeated refusals to trust and obey God, their murmuring and complaining...
well, I'm not into visions, but I've been in that wilderness, and I see her there now. So whether she hears me or not, I've been impressed with the fact that there may be no one else to say what needs to be said.
It's really bad, Hops. At times, I've just wished that she was gone... and I'm ashamed to feel that way, but God knows it's the truth and He's just not letting it rest. He keeps bringing me back to this and it's like I'm 4 years old again, afraid to open my mouth, just wanting her to go away and leave me be. But then, thinking back to another character who refused to go where he was sent, I realized that I really don't want to get swallowed by a whale, so I think I'd best follow through. It's not her physical healing that's weighing so heavily on me... I'm really not sure what she even believes.

So I've got my spiel all typed up... it's a sermon, really, based on one of my favorite Bible teaching messages from our pastor... and I believe it with all of my heart. Now if I can just put it into the mail.

Love,
Hope

[Hopalong]

Thank you for sharing what you're struggling with, Hope.
I don't know what it's like to feel charged with saving another's soul.

Maybe if you just forgave her (without dropping the boundaries one iota, that you need to feel safe and healthy)?
And sent love?

Maybe you'd just be acting out the lesson.

This is a very hard thing.

love from me to you,
Hops

[axa]

AMi,

I think when we did not receive love as children we have no way of knowing and look to the external for clues on how to be.  This is where I see myself, through your work here I believe you are working through the pain and the knowing will grow within.  I always envied people who seemed to know instinctively when to leave, not get involved with N people, these people, I believe were nurtured and turned away from what was bad for them.  We had no markers, no signposts, looking outside all the time, trying to make sense of the insanity.  The most important lesson I am learning is that I need to parent myself with love and compassion to know from my heart the dangers of this world.

axa

[Ami]

Dear Axa,
  I think what happens is that abuse disconnects us from our core. We don't trust ourselves SO we turn ourselves over to someone who we think "knows" better. That sets us up for failure b/c it simply won't work to have another person be the 'driver of our boat"
  So, we throw away our core. Then, we make many mistakes and terrible  decisions( like falling in love with N's).
  The key, I think, is the inner child 'work". Inside us is STILL that core that we were told not to trust. It has always been there BUT we told it to 'Shut up"
   I think that the MAIN difference between abused people and normal people is that abused people lost this vital ,vital connection with their core. Maybe it is that simple. If we could regain it( by the inner child work) we would be well. It might be just that simple. I am on that path.I have had great successes in a very short time.
   Let me know if any of this strikes you, Axa                                   Love    Ami

[Certain Hope]

Thank you for sharing what you're struggling with, Hope.
I don't know what it's like to feel charged with saving another's soul.

Maybe if you just forgave her (without dropping the boundaries one iota, that you need to feel safe and healthy)?
And sent love?

Maybe you'd just be acting out the lesson.

This is a very hard thing.

love from me to you,
Hops

Dear Hops,

I know it may sound like some sort of rescue mission, but the burden that's weighing on me isn't the weight of her soul, it's the load of truth which I've never spoken.
What I feel charged with is to break the chains binding me to this "keeping up appearances" monster... that creature which represents to me a living death. If I weren't still linked to it, I would have spoken up in that last phone call with my mother, but the training to follow a rigid, restrictive script runs so deep! I believe that the only way to break genetic ties, the flesh, is by the Spirit, so this is just about freeing myself as it is about her.

This message "From Egypt to Canaan" is quite confrontational, but actually it doesn't speak to whether a person is saved or lost. The inference is that all those who'd been covered by the blood of the Passover lamb were indeed saved...
and yet they died in the wilderness.
It's the message which woke me up to the fact that I had not even been covered by the blood of Christ, but only wrapped up in religious notions.
And now it's the message which directs me to share the truth lest I take another lap around the mountain. I can't explain, but it's like she's daring me, Hops... just daring me to spill it. What I hear her saying is.. "alright, you think you've got it all sorted out and you don't need to jump through my hoops anymore, let's hear it!! What's NEW??!!"  
It's time I respond. If I skip this step, then I'll feel like a fake, but this isn't an ultimatum... it's just the missing piece, after which I can live out the rest of the lesson, in forgiveness, with proper boundaries.
Thanks for listening and for trying to understand... this has helped alot.

Love to you, too, friend,
Hope

[Hopalong]

it's the load of truth which I've never spoken.
What I feel charged with is to break the chains binding me to this "keeping up appearances" monster... that creature which represents to me a living death.

Oh I know that monster. I loathe it too.

I am sure you'll do it well and wisely. Only thought I have, if it's helpful, it to check in with yourself, in deep quiet, to make sure you confront her from a position of strength and deeply free choice. Rather than because she's pulled your strings again (as in a dare). Know what I mean?

xo
Hops

[Certain Hope]

it's the load of truth which I've never spoken.
What I feel charged with is to break the chains binding me to this "keeping up appearances" monster... that creature which represents to me a living death.

Oh I know that monster. I loathe it too.

I am sure you'll do it well and wisely. Only thought I have, if it's helpful, it to check in with yourself, in deep quiet, to make sure you confront her from a position of strength and deeply free choice. Rather than because she's pulled your strings again (as in a dare). Know what I mean?

xo
Hops

Yes, I know what you mean, Hops... but I feel that she's not pulling strings anymore unless my response to her is either angry confrontation or refusal to communicate; and till now, I've been torn between those two.
God is offering me a third option - His way... the way I've learned from my pastor and, to a certain extent, from my husband. This way goes entirely against my mother's entire belief system, because it doesn't reject the person, only the lie. To extend that grace to her means humbling myself, which is the thing I see Jonah refused to do and thus consigned himself to whale seminary... and it's stinky in those whale bellies.

You see, I haven't written here about the things I've done long ago in the past, to offend her... and she and I have never discussed those things, either... but they've also been returning to memory to trip me up and make me reluctant to engage. After all, transparency goes both ways. So I think and feel that what I need to add into my message is an acknowledgement of my own share, along with a sincere apology... not in an attempt to get her to reciprocate, but just to bring my own past to closure. I want to do that for myself... not as confession, because she already knows, but to put it to rest, since that was never done and has only contributed to my sense of being a shadow of a person.

No matter which way I look at it, my parents have had such a tremendous impact on my life that I would not feel complete if I avoided this opportunity to share myself with them. I have to resist the urge to wonder whether it's even worth explaining, because that's how my mother views people... she wouldn't bother. I believe that's a very wrong attitude... to just write people off that way. Very wrong. This is a major paradigm shift for me... to stop "trying to prove that I'm not like her" and just follow through with determination in doing what I believe is right. It's differentiation, finally, completely.
I am me. That's what's new.

Much love to you and appreciation,
Hope

[reallyME]

Certain Hope,

You've been there for me through a LOT on this board, and it's my turn to give some input to what you've shared.

The one thing that gnawed at me from the entire reading of your post, was just 2 words.

BE CAREFUL!
Laura

[Certain Hope]

Certain Hope,

You've been there for me through a LOT on this board, and it's my turn to give some input to what you've shared.

The one thing that gnawed at me from the entire reading of your post, was just 2 words.

BE CAREFUL!
Laura

((((((((Laura))))))) Thank you so much... I'm truly touched by your caring thoughts and words.

I really feel like I have nothing to lose but any remnants of false pride... because just in talking through this, the amount of integration I'm feeling within myself is absolutely amazing. It's really like all the bits and pieces of me which have been scattered willy nilly are coming together into one whole. It's helping me to realize that I don't want to hurt either one of my parents, or place any blame... just for once, be who I now know that I am in front of them, openly. This is how I am at home, with my husband and kids...  I mean, this is how I talk with them... and to be any different before my parents would be my problem, my bad, not theirs. I know that some people can't take that depth of transparency, but that's okay... doesn't have to stop me from trying. Getting rid of the anger is really giving me a much more objective view of this whole mess and that's a wonderful blessing!

Thanks again!
Love,
Hope

[reallyME]

Hope, my sister in the Lord, I'm so glad you wrote back and reassured me that you are going to be safe and ok.

The only thing else I want to lovingly caution you about, is that, when we were raised by manipulative parents, we, too began using some of those tactics in our own relationships.  Be careful to not do what I used to do a LOT...be careful not to purposely BAIT your parents.

 I remember when things were ending with Kay, I'd say things, just to get her to react in exactly the way I knew she would, so that I could feel more powerful over her and thereby get a little bit more of myself back from her.  I realize now that it was wrong on my part, but back then I sincerely didn't care.  She hurt me deeper than anyone ever has, and I wanted to FORCE HER TO FEEL REMORSE of some kind for it.  Even in all my efforts though, to this day, i'm sure she really has not one more ounce of empathy in her nor regret over our lost relationship.

I also have to even now watch that I don't bait my own bio mother.  I know if I tell her that one of my children are going to do something she disapproves, she will go off into a rant over it.  She is MAJORLY PARANOID, and I get some of my own paranoia from her.  For years I'd say things KNOWING she would go on and on, telling me how dangerous it was, how someone will take my children away from me from social services, how I don't want the neighbors to see my child up in that tree, lest they report me...blah blah blah.  Now, I don't try and bait her, but I do know when she's reacting very easily.

Just some thoughts,

~Laura

[Certain Hope]

Hope, my sister in the Lord, I'm so glad you wrote back and reassured me that you are going to be safe and ok.

The only thing else I want to lovingly caution you about, is that, when we were raised by manipulative parents, we, too began using some of those tactics in our own relationships.  Be careful to not do what I used to do a LOT...be careful not to purposely BAIT your parents.

 I remember when things were ending with Kay, I'd say things, just to get her to react in exactly the way I knew she would, so that I could feel more powerful over her and thereby get a little bit more of myself back from her.  I realize now that it was wrong on my part, but back then I sincerely didn't care.  She hurt me deeper than anyone ever has, and I wanted to FORCE HER TO FEEL REMORSE of some kind for it.  Even in all my efforts though, to this day, i'm sure she really has not one more ounce of empathy in her nor regret over our lost relationship.

I also have to even now watch that I don't bait my own bio mother.  I know if I tell her that one of my children are going to do something she disapproves, she will go off into a rant over it.  She is MAJORLY PARANOID, and I get some of my own paranoia from her.  For years I'd say things KNOWING she would go on and on, telling me how dangerous it was, how someone will take my children away from me from social services, how I don't want the neighbors to see my child up in that tree, lest they report me...blah blah blah.  Now, I don't try and bait her, but I do know when she's reacting very easily.

Just some thoughts,

~Laura

Thank you so much, Laura. It did used to be, many years ago, that I'd tell my mother things that were happening with my kids' dad, knowing the response she'd give, but I don't think that was baiting. I was just so enmeshed with her, thinking that she was the only one with whom I could share these things, on whom I could depend... it was pathetic.
I've tried several times to compose a letter to send along with this Bible message I'm mailing them, but it keeps getting messy. There's just no way to get into it without exposing the "dirt" and I'm not interested in her remorse toward me. If anything, I'd like her to make things right with God and with my Dad.
Last night I prayed about it alot, because in the course of trying to write, I was remembering even more things and my own anger kept flaring up.
I told God that I am willing to let it go, but He will have to show me how.
This morning, after reading your post here again just now, something came to me and I'd like to share it with you...it's in Matthew 8 and also Luke 9.
Here it is out of Luke 9, in the New Living Translation:
59 He said to another person, "Come, be my disciple."
The man agreed, but he said, "Lord, first let me return home and bury my father."
60 Jesus replied, "Let those who are spiritually dead care for their own dead. Your duty is to go and preach the coming of the Kingdom of God."
61 Another said, "Yes, Lord, I will follow you, but first let me say good-bye to my family."
62 But Jesus told him, "Anyone who puts a hand to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the Kingdom of God."

Does that not say it all? Here I was looking to bury something that simply needs to be left behind. All I had to say was, Lord, I can't do this. And there's my answer. God is so good.

Much love to you, Laura.. thanks for making me think!

Hope