Author Topic: a convo about intimacy with NH, his typical phrases, etc  (Read 1966 times)

reallyME

  • Guest
a convo about intimacy with NH, his typical phrases, etc
« on: August 18, 2007, 11:01:12 AM »
last night I decided to attempt the impossible again.  I had a conversation with my n husband about "the difference between romance the world's way, vs God's way.  To my husband, the intimacy between husband and wife is supposed to sound like a porno flick.  To me, more like a soap opera.  I feel used, cheapened, and degraded. His response is always "well, there aren't any CHRISTIAN manuals written on this topic and the mechanics are all the same either way.

This has been an ongoing battle with him and me for YEARS!  Since the only form of "intimacy" he has ever known, was a distorted, perverted form by his abusive father or his perverted friend, that's how he has always practiced intimacy in our marriage.  There was a time that I went along, play-acting with him, because I thought it made me a good, obedient wife, but, since I've decided that I don't want the "ways of the world" being part of our marriage, I've put my foot down and said "I will NOT talk/act that way.  It's DISGUSTING and WRONG."  He blames my "new attitude" on, going to college and getting into "all that psychobabble stuff."  It's not that...it's that I don't want to be OBJECTIFIED in ANY part of the marriage.

Now, the one arguement both he and Kay always gave me, when they didn't want to change something, was, "can you EXPLAIN what you mean?  You say all this stuff, yet you never explain what you mean."  Sooooooo, I go through this big long explanation, about how a Godly woman or even a decent one, wants her husband to tell her "you are beautiful.  I love you," rather than "oh baby, you know you want me.  Beg for it!"...only to end up right back with N saying "but you never EXPLAIN what you mean."  THIS HAPPENS OVER AND OVER AGAIN ABOUT THE SAME TOPICS, EVERY TOPIC, till you are thinking "you stupid idiot, I DID just explain everything to you! You didn't hear a WORD of what I said!"

That was last night.  I explained and explained as best as i could, and, always, it came back to him getting this baffled look on his face and saying "you never explain anything to me."

Further, he has some robotic phrases that he says all the time, when I'm trying to tell him what I need emotionally from him.  They are the following:

"I guess I just wasn't wired that way"  (rather than, "oh honey, I'm so sorry I hurt you.  I will get help for this so I can communicate better with you.")

"It's over and done with."  (this is his way of refusing to admit to his faults of the past, yet, he will readily beat me up over things i did in the past, saying "well that's different.")

"Calm down calm down"  (he says this once he has succeeded in riling me up by going in cycles in the convo...he tries to look like the calm, cool and collected one, so he can say "LOOK AT HOW FRUSTRATED YOU ARE GETTING.  THERE IS NO NEED FOR THAT.")

"We'll get through this"  (this is his cop-out way of saying that he intends to just let things "take care of themselves" such as when the cockroaches were crawling on my baby's face, eating her eyebrows.)

"I don't understand why YOU have problems with the car.  It works fine for ME."  (his way of negating that I said there is something wrong with how the car is running, and thus, doing NOTHING TO FIX IT)

"I just talked with the kids...they didn't have anything bad to say..."  (this is his weapon of letting me know that our children saw all the years of poverty and weirdness as "an adventure.")

"People tell me..." (this is used to let me know that others agree with him that I have it SOOOOOOOOOOO easy, by not having had to work and being able to stay at home doing "nothing")  along with this goes "there are women who just WISH THEY HAD IT AS EASY AS YOU DO!"

"Just let's say..." (comes before a nasty thing he will say that someone usually in his family, has said about his "good for nothing" wife...usually this phrase goes something like "Just let's say there were MANY times I wanted to take the car and NEVER come home."  "Just let's say you're lucky that I'm a man who is committed and faithful."  "Just let's say I"ve had to really consider whether I wanted to stay in this relationship with you being as crazy and neglectful as you've been.")

He has this other annoying thing he does, where I'll ask him something and he'll say "yes. yes."  Then I'll say "really?"  and he'll say "I don't know."  (sounds like this:  me:  "did you remember to mail my letter to my mom?"  him: "yes"  me:  "are you sure?"   him:  "yeah"   me:  "I'm not sure you did..."  him: "I don't know."  me: "then WHY did you say you did and now you are saying you don't know?"  him:  "huh?"

It is this everyday banter with an insane man that can make you want to rip your hair out if you don't have a firm grounding in WHO YOU ARE PERSONALLY. 

Oh, the latest thing he said to me was "you said yourself that you have it so good now that you don't want to leave, and now you are saying you want to leave.  I heard what you told your friend on the phone."
(actually what he was eavesdroppin in on, was when a counselor asked me "why do you stay?"  I told him "Because being here, I don't have to go OUT to work.  I work right in my home and i'm fine till he's around again.  Why should I yank my girls out of school, upset my own life, have to drag myself out of the bed every day to work, when I already have it good in the way of a roof over my head, a husband who HAS to work no matter if I do or not, a "familiar" place I'm used to, with my own office at least, a home that my girls grew up in...."  so, you see, he took PART Of that convo and twisted it to say that I was bragging about how GOOD I have it.

Such is my life at this point.  Now, good news...this week someone from my church has invited my husband out to lunch to discuss things.  My husband has AGREED!  this is a HUGE thing and a FIRST for him.  Ya'll please pray and I'll let you know how it goes.

~Laura




lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8631
Re: a convo about intimacy with NH, his typical phrases, etc
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2007, 11:32:12 AM »
 

 Why should I yank my girls out of school, upset my own life, have to drag myself out of the bed every day to work, when I already have it good in the way of a roof over my head, a husband who HAS to work no matter if I do or not, a "familiar" place I'm used to, with my own office at least, a home that my girls grew up in...."  so, you see, he took PART Of that convo and twisted it to say that I was bragging about how GOOD I have it.


~Laura


Laura...  why should your girls have an abusive marriage (to an N) as their primary model for future relationships.....
 all their lives?

You could model lots of things..... what do you want them to see?

No judgements.... God knows I've got a dog in the fight so.... just throwing out the primary factor I chose to leave.

Scondly.... he'll never change.... you'll never deserve the perverse irrational unfair treatment you're receiving....

you deserve better: /

dandylife

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 491
Re: a convo about intimacy with NH, his typical phrases, etc
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2007, 11:34:36 AM »
Laura,
Narcissism and Intimacy : Love and Marriage in an Age of Confusion
by Marion Solomon

The above book was very very helpful for me once I accepted the fact that my partner has a condition (borderline personality disorder w/ N traits).

This book takes a very very different approach than the typical. It's written by a loving and kind therapist who looks at N as something everyone has to some degree and that it comes out and is exacerbated by stress and triggers for all of us. Once you are in a relationship, you dedicate yourself to nurturing the other person and taking care of them despite their "bad behaviors". Not that you allow the bad behaviors, but you learn how to get them through the hard times.

Yes, you have to be committed to nurture the person. If you don't do that, then might as well forget it. Might as well tune out (depersonalize) whenever you are around them and get on with life when they are not around.

But if you wish to really see how you can have a relationship with the person without freezing them out because of their traits, this is the book for you. I found it a lifesaver.

Intimacy is the most personal thing of all with your partner and you have every right to express how you feel about it and have your partner respect that. So just keep saying " I'm uncomfortable with that. Here's what I am willing to do...." No matter how many times it takes. You have a right to your comfort zone.

Love,
Dandylife
"All things not at peace will cry out." Han Yun

"He who angers you conquers you." - Elizabeth Kenny

reallyME

  • Guest
Re: a convo about intimacy with NH, his typical phrases, etc
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2007, 11:42:32 AM »
lighter,

I'm hearing you.  Please realize I have been married to this man for 20 years, had 3 children with him and have been able to cope up till this point.  I already have given him an ultimatum of January.  If things do not drastically improve, he knows I'm OUT.

Dandy,

Thank you for that book recommendation.  I am an AVID reader, and I have a friend who likes to buy me books to read with her, so I will pass along the info and get ahold of that one.

I honor BOTH of your views in this.  I don't want my girls having bad marriages but 2 of them are already involved with guys that are "like dear old dad" so it's a bit late for them.  Other than prayer, I foresee some dismal stuff in their futures.  The eldest is living with her boyfriend, who is very OCD and possibly other things.  The 18 year old's boyfriend comes from an alcoholic family and, is himself somewhat abusive to her already.  He says things to her like "don't make me mad, Anna.  You don't want to make me mad."  RED FLAGS? YES, but my daughter is an adult now and will need to learn from her error.  She will NOT heed what I say, although I haven't given up talking to her about what I see.

Again, thanks to all for your comments here.  This group is GREAT for struggling people!

~Laura

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8631
Re: a convo about intimacy with NH, his typical phrases, etc
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2007, 11:52:11 AM »
I don't want my girls having bad marriages but 2 of them are already involved with guys that are "like dear old dad" so it's a bit late for them.  Other than prayer, I foresee some dismal stuff in their futures.  ~Laura

::hanging head.... trying not to keen like a wounded animal so the girls can hear::

::wiping tears....going back to work on temp hearing::

Ami

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7820
Re: a convo about intimacy with NH, his typical phrases, etc
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2007, 01:14:03 PM »
Dear Laura,
  I have a horrible marriage so I can't give any advise. I am praying for you. I know that God will show you the way if you ask Him. Then,look at the signs that He will put around you. Also, Let the peace of God rule in your heart. This means use"peace" as an umpire to let you know which way to walk.
  I am so sorry, friend. I can hear that it hurts so much                     Love  Ami
((((((((((((((((Laura))))))))))))))))))
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13616
Re: a convo about intimacy with NH, his typical phrases, etc
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2007, 02:50:58 PM »
Oh Laura,
He just can't be romantic. There is no part of him that understands all that cultural training.
He was raised with brute stuff. He just learned what he was taught, and honestly, I think
the chances are very very slim that he can be transformed into a tender lover.

Perhaps if you could be in counseling together, he could learn some simple ways to show
you appreciation and love. Some simple things he could just repeat, but if you knew his
intention was truly to do that, they might come to mean a lot.

The sex thing...oh I am sorry. He doesn't know how that feels to a woman, the verbal
debasement stuff. I even think he might not realize that "You know you want it" can be
that kind of trigger. (It is to me too...the whole implication of powering right over a
women's objection...is deadly for me. For other women I know, more sexually confident
perhaps, it can be playful and not imply subjugation.)

I don't know if your H is a villain or just a damaged guy who will never have the verbal
skill or the imagination to be able to empathize.

I hope so much that the person at your church is skilled and can help your H see how
he affects you, and more importantly, how simple the changes are that could turn
things around.

with love
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

reallyME

  • Guest
Re: a convo about intimacy with NH, his typical phrases, etc
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2007, 03:05:10 PM »
authentic,

Actually, when I was talking about soap operas being better than porn, I meant about how they say endearing things to each other on them.  Like, you'd hear "_________ me, big daddy" on a porn movie, but in a soap opera, you're more likely to hear the guy say something like "oh Erica...do you know how long I've waited and prayed for this moment.  Just holding you in my arms, means more to me than anything.  I love you and I'll never leave you again."

make better sense now?

~Laura

Certain Hope

  • Guest
Re: a convo about intimacy with NH, his typical phrases, etc
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2007, 03:13:19 PM »
((((((((Laura))))))))


Some years ago, I remember hearing about a Christian book written by the guy who used to co-host Parenttalk...Dr. Kevin Leman
The title, as I recall, is  Sex Begins in the Kitchen

If it's a manual he wants, I'm sure there's some good Christian literature out there on the topic. Thankfully, some Christians are coming to recognize that God created sex for enjoyment within marriage, as well as for procreation.

I'm hoping and praying for you here... and for some impact to come out of that talk your husband's gonna have with the person from church.

With love,
Hope