Author Topic: Are these narcissist traits  (Read 2522 times)

jiggs

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Are these narcissist traits
« on: August 21, 2007, 09:52:31 PM »
I hope this is an appropriate topic for this board, but I'm at my wit's end trying to figure out what I'm dealing with in the man I'm trying to divorce and who's the father of my two children.  I've read a lot about narcissism and others have told me they believe my husband is, but then there are behaviors that I can't seem to reconcile with narcissism.

In a nutshell, my husband has always made me feel like I am everything to him, and when I've said I was leaving, he's threatened to kill himself.  In the beginning it made me feel special, but soon after we married and had a child, it no longer felt like I mattered, but like I was the object of an obsession.  At the same time that he would tell me I was all that mattered to him, he would always make me feel like I was lacking and that he was always right, about everything.

Two months ago, I finally got the courage to move out.  He hasn't talked to the kids since.  About a month ago he started calling me and he almost acts like there's nothing different.  He just wants to chat, or tell me he's had a bad day, or "just hear my voice".  He tells me that he's going to get rid of all of the stuff I left him and that he wants me to have the house and everything.  I just can't figure out what I'm dealing with, but I still feel like it's full of manipulation and something ugly.


Ami

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Re: Are these narcissist traits
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2007, 09:58:09 PM »
Dear Friend,
   I am so sorry about what you are going through. I Really don't know if it is Narcissism. Is he threatening suicide?I can't really form an answer with the details that you provided. It is too sketchy for me.I am sorry. Maybe,other people can help more.
   I just wanted to say that I am so sorry for what you are suffering                                    Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

WRITE

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Re: Are these narcissist traits
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2007, 10:35:27 PM »
Welcome!

It's very scary when someone threatens suicide, especially when it's conditional on something you do/don't do.

However it's aggressive and unacceptable to threaten people, and if he did hurt himself it's his responsibility not yours.

Yes it is ugly and manipulative, he's in pain so he wants to hurt you. It's very immature.

Only a psychiatrist can diagnose a personality disorder by observing him over time, but whether or not he is NPD you have the right to leave if things aren't working between you.

~Write

Bella_French

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Re: Are these narcissist traits
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2007, 11:01:37 PM »
Jiggs, my guess is he grew up with a narcissistic parent, so some of those personality traits have rubbed off on him, but that he seems more super-codependent and depressed than narcissistic. He has a lot of growing up to do, if he does stuff like threatening suicide when you wanted to end the relationship. I can understand why you wanted out from that kind of emotional blackmail.

hugs to you; i hope you are doing ok with your new separation.

X bella


JanetLG

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Re: Are these narcissist traits
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2007, 04:57:57 AM »
Jiggs,

I'm sorry you are having to go through all this. I'm not sure if NPD is involved, but it doesn't sound pleasant, whatever it is.

If someone threatens suicide, it isn't for you to decide if they mean it or not. You are not their doctor.

So, tell their doctor, then leave it to *them* to sort it out. Otherwise, it's just manipulation, IMO (I've had suicide threatened by my mother, several times).


Janet

Certain Hope

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Re: Are these narcissist traits
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2007, 08:25:24 AM »
Hi, Jiggs... Welcome!

Almost feels like you're dealing with two different people, doesn't it?

I'm so sorry that you and your children are facing these issues.
Whether or not your husband is NPD, the fact is that you can never be sure that what he's saying is true. Has he had any sort of counseling?
That would certainly seem like a good recommendation for him, personally. Of course, there's no telling whether or not he'd benefit... that's entirely up to him.

I hope that you'll continue to walk by what you know is real and true and keep a big question mark by the rest, because the proof is always in the actions, not in the talk. Posting more here may be a great way to air some more of your concerns and receive encouragement and support!
Best wishes to you.

Hope

Hopalong

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Re: Are these narcissist traits
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2007, 09:12:56 AM »
Welcome, Jiggy...

So very brave of you to actually face it and move out! Congratulations.
You have saved yourself and now you are working on realizing it's not your job any more to save him.

It does sound manipulative and ugly. Trust your instincts.
And I agree with reporting his suicidal remarks to his doctor. Just call them up and leave the message.

I have no basis for this thought except a flash when I read your post...I thought, he has someone
else. He is focused on a new source of supply already, or he's grooming one. Hence the lighter note.

Does that make any sense?

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Gaining Strength

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Re: Are these narcissist traits
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2007, 10:44:45 AM »
there are behaviors that I can't seem to reconcile with narcissism.

Will you describe some of these behaviors.

For years I thought my father was an N but there were some things that did not match up.  Then I learned this summer that he did indeed have the behaviors, I had just never seen them.  How can that be?  I'm not sure except that he really did cover them very well.  He had repressed alot until he lost the ability to cover them.

NoMoreMindGames

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Re: Are these narcissist traits
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2007, 12:00:29 PM »
hi there,

thank you for posting on this board. 

it sounds pretty awful, from what you described...especially the threatening suicide and the not talking to the kids since you left part.

it's true that we couldn't diagnose NPD here....but whatever is wrong with your husband, people are here for you to listen and to support.

love,

NMMG

reallyME

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Re: Are these narcissist traits
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2007, 01:11:26 PM »
Jiggs

What you are describing...your ex making you his "world" and threatening suicide if you leave, becoming his object of obsession...is, from my experience and studying, called BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER.

FROM WEBMED.COM:

A person with borderline personality disorder often has unstable relationships, low self-esteem, and problems with impulsive behavior, all of which begin by early adulthood.2

A common feature of this disorder is fear of being abandoned, even if the threat of being abandoned is not real. This fear may lead to frantic attempts to hold on to those around you and may cause you to become too dependent on others. Sometimes you may react to the fear of being abandoned by rejecting others first before they can reject you. This erratic behavior can lead to stormy relationships in every area of your life.

People who are diagnosed with borderline personality disorder have at least five of the following symptoms. They may:3

Make frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.
Have a pattern of difficult relationships caused by alternating between extremes of intense admiration and hatred of others.
Have an unstable self-image or be unsure of his or her own identity.
Act impulsively in ways that are self-damaging, such as extravagant spending, frequent and unprotected sex with many partners, substance abuse, binge eating, or reckless driving.
Have recurring suicidal thoughts, make repeated suicide attempts, or cause self-injury through mutilation, such as cutting or burning himself or herself.
Have frequent emotional overreactions or intense mood swings, including feeling depressed, irritable, or anxious. These mood swings usually only last a few hours at a time; rarely, they may last than a day or two.
Have long-term feelings of emptiness.
Have inappropriate, fierce anger or problems controlling anger. The person may often display temper tantrums or get into physical fights.
Have temporary episodes of feeling suspicious of others without reason (paranoia) or losing a sense of reality.
Not everyone who has five or more of these symptoms is diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. For a person to be diagnosed with any personality disorder, the symptoms must be severe and must go on long enough to cause significant emotional distress or problems functioning in relationships or at work.3

You may have temporary episodes of psychosis (paranoia and a loss of a sense of reality) with borderline personality disorder, especially when you are going through a personal crisis. This psychosis usually does not last very long; but if it continues, your doctor may consider another condition, such as schizophrenia.

Symptoms of borderline personality disorder are not caused by another medical condition or by medicines, and they are not a result of long-term substance abuse problems. Borderline personality disorder may be confused with other conditions with similar symptoms, such as other personality disorders, including antisocial personality disorder and histrionic personality disorder.

Suicidal behavior
Suicidal behavior is common in people with borderline personality disorder, with close to 10% of those with the disorder completing suicide.6 Your risk of suicidal thoughts or attempts increases if you have depression along with borderline personality disorder.7 However, you can reduce your risk for suicide by treating symptoms of both conditions.

Other conditions that commonly occur with borderline personality disorder
Other mental health conditions commonly occur with borderline personality disorder and need treatment also. These additional conditions can make it difficult to distinguish borderline personality and can complicate treatment. Conditions that frequently occur with borderline personality disorder include:4, 3

Depression or other mood disorders (for example, dysthymic disorder).
Eating disorders, especially bulimia nervosa.
Substance abuse problems.
Bipolar disorder, which is depression with episodes of mania.
Panic attacks or panic disorder.
Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).
Other personality disorders can occur in addition to borderline personality disorder. A few of these conditions include:

Histrionic personality disorder, which causes excessive emotional reactions, attention-seeking behavior, and dramatic behavior.
Avoidant personality disorder, which causes a person to avoid interaction with other people, especially if the interaction involves a new activity that may prove embarrassing.
Antisocial personality disorder, a condition that involves a pattern of disregard for or violation of the rights of others.

wiltay

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Re: Are these narcissist traits
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2007, 10:23:26 PM »
Jiggs, the N's I've known are masters of disguise, pretending to be one thing on the surface when they are something quite different underneath. That makes them quite 'difficult to figure out what you're dealing with,' as you say.  For instance, they can express great caring and selfless concern for you while at the same moment they are secretly sabotaging you or trying to punish you for some alleged sin against them.  In my experience, a frustrated N is a devious, sometimes mean and vindictive child inhabiting an outwardly adult personality. The contradiction will drive you nuts until you see this well-hidden inner child operating behind the scenes who has no conscience or concern with right or wrong, only getting what they want. Your husband may or may not be an N, but you sound very suspicious of a hidden agenda because of your past experience with him and that in itself is ringing the N alarm in MY brain! In any event, it's not important what you call him, only that you protect yourself from someone who is not good for you, as you appear to be doing.  Hang in there!  People with PD's are enormously difficult to deal with, whatever you call them.

Bill

Life Is Precious

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Re: Are these narcissist traits
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2007, 10:33:38 PM »
Jiggs,

Also, anyone who threatens 'death' when you advocate a change for the better is casting a net of guilt with which to trap you. Please do whatever it is you need to do to protect yourself and your little kids. Their father is an individual and an adult, and must learn to take care of himself. His ability to cope with himself and his own ego is not, in the end, your personal responsibility.

I wish you strength and good insight, and that you will trust your instincts.

dandylife

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Re: Are these narcissist traits
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2007, 03:12:33 PM »
Jiggs,
I have to support ReallyMe (Laura) who stated this sounds like a person with Borderline Personality Disorder. I live with one every day and this is quite universal - the idealism, then the de-valuing that follows. The person is expecting you to leave them, abandon them, so they act as if you are planning that - and literally bring it on to themselves by the way they act.

It is very very hard to overcome these behaviors. I have not been able to, even after years of being aware of them, and some therapy.

It's pervasive and there's usually additional psychological problems that accompany (depression, n traits, etc.).

If you are in the process of divorce and he's not trying to emotionally blackmail you, then I would advise you to just follow through the best you can and move on. Get the most stability you can out of the situation for you and the kids and be thankful that he's not violent or more intellectually savvy.

Dandylife
"All things not at peace will cry out." Han Yun

"He who angers you conquers you." - Elizabeth Kenny

Poppyseed

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Re: Are these narcissist traits
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2007, 03:22:14 PM »
Jiggs,

I so agree with dandylife and precious!  Whatever has led you to separate from this guy sounds like sense to me.  Using threats of suicide to control your actions!  This is not emotionally healthy or mature behavior.  I don't see how you could have a nuturing relationsip with someone such as this.  He does need to learn to take care of himself.  Sounds like you are headed in the right direction. 

Much support,
Poppy