Author Topic: Shameless  (Read 2361 times)

Certain Hope

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Shameless
« on: September 01, 2007, 10:50:45 PM »
I've never read many of the popular books on the topic of narcissism, toxic parenting, etc, so was checking our local library system for a few and ran across this excerpt from the book   

Why is it always about you? : saving yourself from the Narcissists in your life 
by Hotchkiss, Sandy

Some of these examples are strikingly familiar.
Thought some others here might be interested:


Stephanie felt the ball leave her racquet cleanly and watched it sail deep into the back court, just inside the baseline. The focus of her attention was split between the path of the ball and her own body mechanics. "Watch the ball," she told herself, "get sideways, hit through, finish up." Forehand after forehand, she repeated her silent mantra until the rhythm of the drill overtook her conscious efforts at control. For a few precious moments, she was in that "zone" that athletes cherish when everything comes together and there are no mistakes.
She was smiling secretly, enjoying a licit high, wondering if her husband, Doug, had also noticed how well she was hitting today, when a heavily underspun return angled into her backhand. She lunged, stabbed, and caught the ball on her racquet rim, sending it flying out of the court. "You never read that spin," Doug scolded from the far court. "Never," Stephanie echoed, suddenly feeling as though she had just blown an internal tire. Pain washed over her and settled in the middle of her chest. She felt too heavy to move her feet, too awkward to connect the racquet at the end of her arm with the small neon projectile hurtling toward her. "I'll never be any good at this game," she thought miserably, smashing the next three balls into the net. The elation of only moments before had evaporated, replaced by a hopeless feeling of ineptitude. Stephanie swallowed the tears rising in her throat and gave herself a mental kick in the backside. "You're such a baby," she muttered to herself as she prepared to pack up and go home. "You wimping out on me again?" Doug called out. He was only teasing, trying to goad her back into the drill, but his words were like salt on a fresh abrasion. There would be no more tennis this day.
Boy, is she touchy, you may be thinking, and you would be right. In my business, we call this a "narcissistic injury," and as trivial as the things that provoke it may seem to an observer, to the injured party, the pain is devastating, as it was for Stephanie in this instance. What seems like a rather mundane occurrence is actually the reopening of a very old wound: a relationship of trust is disrupted by a "misattuned" communication (his criticism colliding with her joy) and, adding insult to injury, Stephanie's trusted husband failed to help make the pain go away. Stephanie's sensitivity, her sudden collapse from a state of pleasure, and her difficulty recovering her emotional balance all point to a very primitive sequence of experiences encoded deep within her psyche, most likely beyond the reach of her conscious memory. It is her hard drive for the emotion of shame.

Shame is among the most unbearable of human feelings, regardless of our age or station in life. Unlike guilt, it speaks not to the misdeed but to the misery of a pervasive personal flaw. We first experience shame in the eyes of our mother or primary attachment figure, when, starting around the age of one, we bring her (usually) our excitement and, instead of sharing our pleasure, she scowls and says, "No!" Her unexpected disapproval shatters the illusion of power and importance that is how we see ourselves at that early age, derived from our union with her. Without warning, we have been ejected from this paradise, and it can only be because we are bad. We feel bad, therefore we are bad.

For some children, this experience, repeated over and over in the course of socialization, is so crushing that they never quite get over it, and they spend their lives avoiding anything that makes them feel ashamed. Recent research in neurobiology has shown that the developing brain is not yet ready to process the intense experience of shame at the age when socialization begins and that the lack of an emotionally attuned parent at this crucial time can actually stunt -- for life -- the growth of the pathways for regulating such profoundly unpleasant emotions. What helps the infant's brain develop properly is for parents to provide what the young brain is not yet able to, the soothing of the very shame they have inflicted.

Catherine is the mother of a vivacious two-year-old who is the apple of her family's eye. When Janey had to share her mother's attention with a visiting infant one day, she expressed her indignance by hitting the baby. Catherine was horrified and scolded her daughter, then sent her to her room in tears of shame. Catherine felt compassion for her daughter, however, and did not let her sit with the humiliation too long. After a few moments, she went to her and said, "It was bad to hit the baby, and you must never do that again. But you are a good girl, and Mommy loves you. Now, let's go say 'I'm sorry' to Betsy," and then she gave her a hug. Together, they returned to the living room and Catherine helped Janey apologize.
When parents do not respond as Catherine did to soothe the shame they inflict, children develop their own means of compensating -- they wall off the intolerable feeling, and they use fantasy to distance themselves from the monster behind the wall. They cling to notions of themselves as special, powerful, or important.

In the Narcissist, shame is so intolerable that the means have been developed not to experience it at all. What psychologists call "bypassed shame" looks like shamelessness or the absence of a conscience, hiding behind a protective barrier of denial, coldness, blame, or rage. Since there are no healthy internal mechanisms available to process this painful feeling, the shame is directed outward, away from the Self. It can never be "my fault."

I recall one young woman I worked with from her late teens until her mid-twenties. A child of divorce who had been alternately pampered and ignored by her self-centered father, she struggled mightily with chronic feelings of low self-worth. She saw herself as stupid and repeatedly acted out her sense of incompetence. These feelings, however, and the shame that accompanied them, were close to the surface compared with the humiliation she felt at having been rejected and abandoned by her father. The depth of that pain was to be dramatically expressed one day shortly after she learned that he had been diagnosed with cancer. "Just in time for my wedding," she said, her mouth contorting in an ugly sneer. "He's never paid for anything in my life." The specter of his possible death -- the ultimate abandonment -- had pushed her past the shame of inadequacy to a state of congealed rage. She showed not even a hint of embarrassment at the coldness of her outburst, only raw, wounded contempt.

More typically, the shamelessness of the Narcissist comes across as cool indifference or even amorality. We sense that these people are emotionally shallow, and we may think of them as thick-skinned, sure of themselves, and aloof. Then, all of a sudden, they may surprise us by reacting to some minor incident or social slight. When shaming sneaks past the barriers, these "shameless" ones are unmasked for what they really are -- supremely shame-sensitive. That is when you will see a flash of hurt, usually followed by rage and blame. When the stink of shame has penetrated their walls, they fumigate with a vengeance.

Shame is the feeling that lurks beneath all unhealthy narcissism, and the inability to process shame in healthy ways -- to face it, neutralize it, and move on as healthier individuals do -- leads to the characteristic postures, attitudes, and behavior of the Narcissist.
Copyright © 2002 by Sandy Hotchkiss
Chapter 1: Shamelessness
 

axa

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Re: Shameless
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2007, 09:09:14 AM »
Hope,

Found this really interesting.  I often wondered about shame in the context of XN.  I am very aware of my own shame.  Back to XN.  We have a saying where I live "that person has no shame" meaning they have no awareness of others or the impact of their behaviour on others.  This was a statement which often came to mindin the context of XN.  He would act like he had no past, what he did yesterday, which may have been embarrassing, socially outrageous etc, never happened, would just act like nothing at all had happened.  I see from what you posted that he is so cut off from his shame that he cannot bear to experience it and so the rest of the world suffers.

Many thanks for posting this hope,  Need to think of it also in relation to my own narcissistic injuries.......... seems like self sabotage is connected up with shame also.

Axa

Certain Hope

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Re: Shameless
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2007, 10:44:48 AM »
Axa,

Your're welcome... and many thanks for your comments!

I'm very aware of my (false or improper) shame when I blush at exposure of self to other peoples' opinions... or feel overly fearful about engaging... much like Stephanie in the tennis example here. 
Then there's the shame of knowing that I've done wrong or hurt someone... which really should be sensed as guilt, and is not supposed to cut to the core of my being. Yet it still does at times... especially when I think that I've said or done, or even felt, something which reminds me of my parents. Major shame there. (Again, like Stephanie)

With our own narcissistic injuries, I know what you mean about self sabotage... I think it's connected with my old habit of "cutting off my nose to spite my face", but there are alot of missing dots in there yet to find and connect.

Working through this topic of "bypassed shame", which is what N seems to operate under the influence of at all times, I hope will shed some light on all this. More to come!

Love,
Hope

Certain Hope

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Re: Shameless
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2007, 04:20:11 PM »
Excerpted from  When Shame Gets Out of Hand


http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:bOgLbsDoeqMJ:www.pineforge.com/upm-data/13294_Chapter_5_Web_Byte_Thomas_J_Scheff.pdf+Lewis+Unacknowledged+Shame&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=19&gl=us

In order to document this tendency of shame, Scheff (1990) cites the work of research psychoanalyst Helen Lewis (pp. 15 – 19). In the cases that Lewis studied, there was a marked change in the patients' manner when they felt they were being negatively evaluated (negative evaluation is “the central context for shame” (p. 86)).
The patients became sullen, demonstrated speech interruptions (such as stammering),and there were marked decreases in the volume of the patients’ voice.
The most interesting thing to both Lewis and Scheff is that the shame was never named. When feelings were named, they were called low self-esteem, feeling foolish, stupid, inadequate, awkward, exposed, vulnerable, and so forth; but they were never called shame.
Lewis characterizes this type as overt and undifferentiated shame: the person overtly acts out the feeling but it is experienced as a diffuse negative emotion.
Shame remains unacknowledged.

Shame can also be bypassed. Bypassed shame appears to be directly experienced as shame yet it is avoided.
With undifferentiated shame, the mind seems to slow down, burdened under the inability to identify the emotion. With bypassed shame, the mind seems to be working hard at keeping away from the issue. Patients experiencing this type of shame became obsessive. Their talk sped up and they endlessly repeated a story or series of stories. These patients were intellectually active but unable to make decisions or resolve issues. Lewis characterizes this state as an “insoluble dilemma.” In this state the patient seems to “be taken up with the unresolved scene to the point that she is unable to become effectively involved in events in the present even though there is no obvious disruption” (p. 87). The patient seems to be avoiding the emotional pain of shame beforeit can be completely felt.


With both bypassed and undifferentiated shame, shame is hidden, which explains why we are so rarely aware of it.
Scheff, like Mead and Cooley, argues that we are almostcontinually evaluating our self socially, even when we are alone; this kind of monitoring implies evaluation that results in either pride or shame; thus, “adults are virtually always in a state of either pride or shame, usually of a quite unostentatious kind” (p. 82). Yet we rarely experience shame because shame tends to be hidden. Part of the reason that shame is concealed is due to our culture. Scheff argues that modern societies have developed two defenses against feeling the loss of secure social bonds: the myth of individualism and asimplistic understanding of the relationship between individuals and the social environment. Both of these give us an ideological base from which to deny shame. Another reason that shame tends to be hidden is that shame is recursive; that is, itreacts back on itself. As I noted earlier, pride is fairly straightforward: it is felt andexpressed within cultural limits. We can experience the same pride numerous times indifferent situations with different people. For example, you can show your new tattoo to different people who understand its meaning and each time feel a sense of strong social bonds (pride). We can thus experience pride repeatedly, but pride doesn’t act back on itself: we usually aren’t proud because we experience pride. Even saying “I’m proud of my pride” sounds intuitively odd. We can, however, experience additional shame because we feel shame: “My shame shames me.”

It is actually a bit more complex than that. Shame has accompanying emotions, the most important of which is anger. Because of shame, we become angry at our self for getting us into the situation, or we might feel anger at the situation, or we might be angry with the other person for instigating or pointing out the issue that brought us shame in the first place.
But shame doesn’t stop with anger: anger destroys social bonds, even the social bond with our self, and so we feel further shame. We tend to hide shame, then, because its presence creates more shame. Yet, hiding a recursive process doesn’t make it go away or stop. In fact, if left unattended, recursive loops tend to cycle through almost endlessly. In this case, shame and anger cycle back and forth mutually reinforcing one another. Scheff calls this a feeling trap. A feeling trap is an emotional loop that is generally bound together by shame. We can experience a number of intense emotions, such as grief, fear, normal anger, and so on.These are usually felt and then discharged in the normal course of life. However, if we feel ashamed of our emotion, and the shame isn’t acknowledged, then “a repeating loop of self-perpetuating emotions may occur” (p. 199). These repeating loops can potentially take place within three locales or levels: within a person, between two people (embarrassment is contagious), or a combination of both. Scheff refers to the latter as a “triple spiral:” a loop within each of the participants and the third loop between them.


Well, I could copy the whole article, but I won't :)   It's well worth reading, all the way to the end,
where some excellent points are made re: genuine laughter and its power to alleviate shame.
No wonder N never genuinely laughs at herself.
Oh, she'll laugh at you, or even with you - provided she's feeling in control - but never, ever will she
laugh at her own foolishness, because above all... she is the one entity of the universe which must always,
above all, be taken absolutely seriously.

Bella_French

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Re: Shameless
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2007, 11:32:48 PM »
Its weird Hope; I can relate to defending against shame as it applies to myself, but much less so as relates to my ex-N. I suppose its because he was so darn unnecessarily aggressive all the time; frequently he had nothing obvious to `defend' against. It would often seem he'd just go for my throat because I had no defenses, and he fed off the energy of hurting someone.

I can deeply connect to the vulnerability in another person and empathize with it, but I don't understand cruelty. It doesn't seem related to vulnerability; it seems to be only about aggression and opportunistic malevolence towards those too loving or innocent or caring to defend against it.

I hear what you're saying about raging to defend against shame. I could see that in my ex. But where does the cruelty come from, i wonder?




Bella_French

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Re: Shameless
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2007, 01:36:01 AM »
Thanks authentic; I can relate to those thoughts.

I think a lot of N-behavior that I've personally witnessed/been subjected to was aggressive rather than defensive, and the aggression was gratifying to them. It has helped me to stop looking at N's as poor souls who are only defending themselves. They are aggressive, cruel people who know what other people feel, and deliberately use that information to inflict harm. I know its not as black and white as that, but that shift in my way of thinking did help me to deal with N's and protect myself much better.

X bella


Certain Hope

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Re: Shameless
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2007, 10:47:16 AM »
Its weird Hope; I can relate to defending against shame as it applies to myself, but much less so as relates to my ex-N. I suppose its because he was so darn unnecessarily aggressive all the time; frequently he had nothing obvious to `defend' against. It would often seem he'd just go for my throat because I had no defenses, and he fed off the energy of hurting someone.

I can deeply connect to the vulnerability in another person and empathize with it, but I don't understand cruelty. It doesn't seem related to vulnerability; it seems to be only about aggression and opportunistic malevolence towards those too loving or innocent or caring to defend against it.

I hear what you're saying about raging to defend against shame. I could see that in my ex. But where does the cruelty come from, i wonder?

Hi Bella,

I understand. Whether it's npd or other violent aggressors, I think the answer is here:

From    http://www.sociology.org/content/vol003.001/sheff.html
Re: Shame, Anger and the Social Bond:
A Theory of Sexual Offenders and Treatment

"For offenders, these loops do not take the form of being ashamed of being ashamed (shame-shame loops), which lead to withdrawal and passivity, but shame anger, which lead to continuous humiliated fury, the emotional basis for contempt and hatred."

Violent, aggressive offenders of all sorts are in a different loop.

So much research, and so many scholarly papers, but I'm not sure anyone has really answered the question of why this happens. I still believe it's a choice.
And I believe that the sadistic streak I've witnessed in npd offenders is the acting out of their envy.
It's like this:  jealousy lusts after what someone else has;
but envy... it's not content to simply acquire what the other has... it also wants to ensure that the other has it no more, whether that means destroying "it" (the object of N's lust) or destroying the "other" altogether.

Hope




mudpuppy

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Re: Shameless
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2007, 12:04:24 PM »
Quote
It's like this:  jealousy lusts after what someone else has;
but envy... it's not content to simply acquire what the other has... it also wants to ensure that the other has it no more, whether that means destroying "it" (the object of N's lust) or destroying the "other" altogether.


I thought jealousy was guarding and protecting what one considers his or hers from the attentions and lusts of others, while envy was the desire for or lust after what someone else has.
Each can be quite destructive but they're kind of opposites aren't they?

I agree with you CH that an N's reactions are a choice.  I think the choice may start out as a confused defensive mechanism to protect their delicate psyche, which becomes so ingrained that it changes from a defensive mechanism to an offensive preemptive weapon that they begin to thoroughly enjoy. I think it becomes an end in itself.

mud

Certain Hope

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Re: Shameless
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2007, 12:40:57 PM »
Quote
It's like this:  jealousy lusts after what someone else has;
but envy... it's not content to simply acquire what the other has... it also wants to ensure that the other has it no more, whether that means destroying "it" (the object of N's lust) or destroying the "other" altogether.


I thought jealousy was guarding and protecting what one considers his or hers from the attentions and lusts of others, while envy was the desire for or lust after what someone else has.
Each can be quite destructive but they're kind of opposites aren't they?

I agree with you CH that an N's reactions are a choice.  I think the choice may start out as a confused defensive mechanism to protect their delicate psyche, which becomes so ingrained that it changes from a defensive mechanism to an offensive preemptive weapon that they begin to thoroughly enjoy. I think it becomes an end in itself.

mud

Mud, I understand the definitions you've given and agree to a point, but I think envy goes much farther than what you've stated.
Often the word jealousy seems to be used for the more destructive longings which should rightly, imo, be attributed to envy, whereas
what you're describing as envy sounds to me more like ordinary covetousness.

I know... :)  this may be another matter of semantics, which hooks me up often enough... but then again, maybe not...
do you see what I mean about envy wanting not only to possess but to specifically deprive the other?
My mother, for instance, does this by not only wanting the best for herself, but by ensuring that whatever I may have access to is inherently flawed.

Hope

Bella_French

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Re: Shameless
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2007, 07:30:29 PM »

Hi Bella,

I understand. Whether it's npd or other violent aggressors, I think the answer is here:

From    http://www.sociology.org/content/vol003.001/sheff.html

So much research, and so many scholarly papers, but I'm not sure anyone has really answered the question of why this happens. I still believe it's a choice.
And I believe that the sadistic streak I've witnessed in npd offenders is the acting out of their envy.
It's like this:  jealousy lusts after what someone else has;
but envy... it's not content to simply acquire what the other has... it also wants to ensure that the other has it no more, whether that means destroying "it" (the object of N's lust) or destroying the "other" altogether.

Hope


Hope, Those are my feelings too. N's are driven like maniacs to aggressively tear down what other people have: their happiness, their prosperity,their innocence,  their accomplishments. They earn the trust of others to break them, and basically bastardise the concept of intimacy and friendship. I have known N's who even find this `funny'.

I suspect it is because of envy, and I know that is the popular theory. But it could also be because they are addicted to power and intimidation. Or maybe they have the seed of evil in them, which they nurture instead of pulling into check. Having said that, it is really difficult for me believe that humans are not inherently good and only behave badly because of inner wounds and vulnerability.  But having been around N partners, I think that certain people are just evil.

I used to deeply care about the `why' of N's. Now I'm only interested in keeping them away from me,.

X Bella


Certain Hope

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Re: Shameless
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2007, 01:53:14 PM »
Hope, Those are my feelings too. N's are driven like maniacs to aggressively tear down what other people have: their happiness, their prosperity,their innocence,  their accomplishments. They earn the trust of others to break them, and basically bastardise the concept of intimacy and friendship. I have known N's who even find this `funny'.

I suspect it is because of envy, and I know that is the popular theory. But it could also be because they are addicted to power and intimidation. Or maybe they have the seed of evil in them, which they nurture instead of pulling into check. Having said that, it is really difficult for me believe that humans are not inherently good and only behave badly because of inner wounds and vulnerability.  But having been around N partners, I think that certain people are just evil.

I used to deeply care about the `why' of N's. Now I'm only interested in keeping them away from me,.

X Bella

Dear Bella,

Npd-ex used to tell me in the most patronizing tone: "I can't give you what you refuse to take."

Knowing that with N it's always the opposite, what I realize now is that he couldn't take from me what I refused to give... what was not his to possess... my spirit.

I'm with you. The N's of this world can rant and rave, belittle and badger, deride, slander, twist, scorn and lie as they will, but I will not engage.
That's the only way I know to keep them at a distance. Refuse to engage.

Love,
Hope