Author Topic: What's better for the kids?  (Read 2172 times)

el123

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What's better for the kids?
« on: May 03, 2004, 04:04:03 PM »
I just read some of the recent posts here and I just got a frightening thought that I had to post about.  Here goes:  My N mother can be truly sadistic with me (for a snippet, see How to deal with N mother post).  But, other than the usual annoying habits like comparing kids, etc. my mother doesn't seem to be this way with my kids.  Am I being ignorant?  I'm afraid that my radar for normalcy is off and maybe I wouldn't know it unless it was outrageous?  My mother treats some people fine.  In fact, most people LOVE her and would never believe what she has done/ is still doing to me.  I don't think she's causing my kids any damage but am I deluding myself?  I still rarely let them stay there without me or H and, if I do, it's for short periods of time.  

I was thinking about this and one thing she does with my kids is tell them scary stories and feeds them sweets even though I tell her not to.  The sweets thing is not so bad but the stories they come back with are pretty bad.  Such as policemen taking people to jail, cemetary stories, etc.  Things that they talk about a LOT when they get home.  Also she does things and tells them "don't tell your mother" but of course they do.  For example, she got stopped driving through a red light (she's not usually a bad driver and I've never known her to run a red light before).  But my daughter told me about it and said that nana would get mad because she told us not to tell you.  She's done this before over stuff like giving them sweets after I tell her not to "OK here is some candy.  Don't tell your mother though".  Also she used to have my oldest be first with everything and my four year old used to cry to me about it that she always had to go second because nana said that S. could do everything first since she was the oldest.  I of course told her to stop which she said she would but I find out through the kids that she didn't.  But this behaviour finally stopped after my oldest told her that they take turns (yay!  I'm so proud of her).  I've called her on all of her actions with them and she says that I have 'too many rules' or some variation of this and just does the stuff anyhow.  Is she over the top wtih them?  Am I being ignorant in thinking that she'll be ok with them?  I guess what I'm asking is whether a N HAS to act out? Can they really be ok with some people or do they always eventually show their claws?  She treats lots of people normally but since she's so messed up with me does this mean it will naturally extend to my kids?  I wouldn't have any contact with her if not that my kids absolutely love her.   And, since their other grandmother is a N and out of the picture without my mother, they'd have no grandparent in their lives.  What would you do in my situation?  All of my other siblings think I'm 'overreacting' and that my mother wouldn't harm the kids but they never got what I got and truly don't get it.  It's just hard when everyone around you thinks differently.  Thanks, -E.

Anonymous

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What's better for the kids?
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2004, 05:09:09 PM »
I think your mother is behaving inappropriately by telling them to keep secrets from you. If she were overtly abusive toward them, they wouldn't love her and wouldn't want to see her. So maybe she can put on a "mask" for them. If she were mean to them, I'd say to hell with their having a grandmother, it would be better for them not to. But since she isn't mean to them, maybe you can continue this way. Until it gets worse, which it might.

bunny

Michelle

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Re: What's better for the kids?
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2004, 10:15:01 PM »
Hi El!  

My mother is very similar to yours.  She has never done anything "shockingly" wrong to my children.  However, she is very manipulative, calculated and sly in her actions with them - as she is with me.  For example, she is always "telling" my 2 year old daughter how to feel.  "Oh, you miss mamaw so much don't you" or "Oh I know mamaw is your very best friend".  These things might not be so bad said from an otherwise "healthy" person, but coming from my mother - I know her intent.  Everything is done solely for "her" - not the children.

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She's done this before over stuff like giving them sweets after I tell her not to "OK here is some candy.  Don't tell your mother though".
 

I would be VERY careful with that one.  My counselor has talked to me in great detail about my mother's undermining abilities.  It is not healthy for her to undermine you with your children - even as small as something regarding candy.  I see this totally as a control issue with her.  My mother does the same thing EXACTLY.  My translation of her actions is this:  "Your mother is not the boss.  I am.  No matter what your mother says, I will always be able to overrule her.  By showing you that I overrule her, I am teaching her that you may disrespect her as I do."  And of course she blows it all off and says "It's no big deal - I'm the grandma - I'm allowed to do it".  I have put an end to all that mess TOTALLY.  

I just wanted to throw my opinion in here since you asked, and especially since my mother sounds almost exactly like yours in regards to our children.  

I wish you lots of healthy days filled with peace and happiness!  

Friends,
Michelle
Healing one day at a time.....

write

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What's better for the kids?
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2004, 12:04:39 AM »
if your children felt threatened or unsafe with her I guess they'd not want to be with her.

However she's still undermining you by breaking your rules and trying to make secrets.

I'd limit the time she spends alone with them personally if she can't respect the way you want to raise them.

Am I being ignorant in thinking that she'll be ok with them? I guess what I'm asking is whether a N HAS to act out? Can they really be ok with some people or do they always eventually show their claws? She treats lots of people normally but since she's so messed up with me does this mean it will naturally extend to my kids?

well, she is getting to you by doing this; maybe that's the extent of her narcissistic need. Is that a long-term pattern of acting out through you?

It's just hard when everyone around you thinks differently.

this is what I'd work on. Because at the end of the day it's your life, they're your kids, and your decisions.

It'll take time but keep building yourself up, until you truly don't care what other people ( especially unsupportive people ) think, but trust your own view of the world.

My Experience

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What's better for the kids?
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2004, 02:57:45 PM »
I dont have any magic solutions, but i know where you are coming from. I have two children daughter 6 and son 2.5 yrs. My mother sounds exactly like your own - exactly how i remember my mothers mother acting toward me too. My mother does all of these "devious" things against my will and even has disrespected my wife and i in front of our children in the past.

I think by violating your wishes - even in small things, she is disrespecting you as a parent. I think when your children begin to percieve that - they will disrespect you as well, if you dont stop it from happening.  I know that that is not easily done. I have been and am there now. My mother used to seem lavish with my children - but more than the average grandparent. She is "feeding" on my children is what she is doing - on their innocence, on their trust - getting an affection from them (Nsupply), and as long as that goes on my mother is happy, but look out - when your children get to an age where they have friends - it sounds stupid (and it is) because my mother began to drop my daughter like a hot potato when she found out that my daughter was an individual - and that she didnt worship granny. Problem is, that it bothers me for my daughter's sake that my mother dropped her like that - sure she still hugs my daughter, she still smiles at her - but it changed to a fake smile, and fake hugs - and my daughter can sense it. I can see it - its just like what happened with my own grandmother - and it can have an adverse affect i think - they build children up and then drop them suddenly - its not good - not good at all. Now (she would deny it) my mother treats my son as her favorite.

Second - knowing my mothers potential for "devious behavior and language" and for disrespecting me and my wife and our wishes - and most of all knowing the poisonous venom that pours out of her mouth constantly about others - i will not leave my kids alone with her. I and my wife made that decision - as we have taught our children that those behaviors are wrong - and inexcusable.  (among other reasons) and we cut back the number and length of our visits with them. Thankfully they are moiving further away now too - currently they live just a few houses away - but they are moving 56 miles away now.

We never had to make any open "statement" about lessening time with granny and grandpa - we just did it. If you feel you cant get away completely - my suggestion for the health of your kids is to limit the time with granny and to not leave them alone with her if she is the way you say - this is not good for children.

-Rob

el123

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What's better for the kids?
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2004, 06:36:47 AM »
Thanks for all of the replies.  

Guest, I agree with you that if she were outright mean, she'd be cut off ASAP.  She knows this.  

Michelle, I never thought of the undermining that she was doing to that extent.  Thank you, that is something for me to seriously think over.

write,
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Is that a long-term pattern of acting out through you?

 
No, her usual MO is to directly attack but, who knows, the playing field has changed now with children in the picture so the MO may well have changed.  
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It'll take time but keep building yourself up, until you truly don't care what other people ( especially unsupportive
people ) think, but trust your own view of the world.
Thanks for this.  This is something that I really need to work on.  I have realized that I'm overly concerned with what other people think and rely less on my inner convictions which are quite strong.  
 
Rob,
Quote
I think by violating your wishes - even in small things, she is disrespecting you as a parent. I think when your children begin to percieve that - they will disrespect you as well, if you dont stop it from happening

This is a very disturbing thought and one I need to think on.  I feel that you are right.  

It does sound like we have a lot in common!

-E

Ishana

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From a Young Person
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2004, 09:40:05 PM »
Hi El.

Thought I'd weigh in on this one since I have a child who is almost grown and has given me feedback on this.  My stepmother (who is the N) and my father, who is completely enmeshed with my stepmother, behaved very similarly to what you and others in this thread described.  I recognized the lavishness, the wanting to be the center of my child's universe, and the undermining in small but significant ways.  I actually maintainted limited contact with my folks because things were so weird and I couldn't trust them with him.  

When he became older they became less interested in him because he didn't "worship" him, but they did continue to try to win him over with presents and money at times.  As a matter of fact, my son (who is almost 20 years old now) has very little interest in them at all because he knows they aren't interested in him as a person.  I feel glad that I was able to protect him from them because he seems so healthy in his response to their demands for his attention and adoration.  He is somewhat sad that he doesn't have a grandfather (his grandfather on his father's side passed away some time ago) but he also isn't interested in trying to have a relationship with people who don't really care about him as a person.  He told me some time ago that he recognized that his grandparents were trying to "buy" his love and he isn't interested in that type of love.  He has expressed to me that he is glad I maintained limited contact (once or twice a year, if that) because he felt more time with them would have been damaging and confusing.  If anything, he would have liked even less time or no time at all, which is what he expressed as he got older.

I am grateful to have such a wonderful young person in my life who has strong and healthy values and boundaries.  I do think you can gauge your children's responses and take their reactions into consideration when deciding how much time and in what activities they will engage with your mother.  Ultimately, this is absolutely your (and your spouse's) decision regarding what is best for your children.

Ishana

Anonymous

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What's better for the kids?
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2004, 01:20:04 PM »
Hi El,

I read your note and was bothered by the position your children are put in by your mother.  I found the replies enlightening and wanted to add that my read on the situation was that your mother would like to believe and to encourage your children to be loyal to her.  Maybe this is just a different way to say what another said above about undermining your authority, but I think loyalty issues are going to confuse your kids and create chaos, esp. for the younger ones.  

If your mom can't respect your rules, you may have to put your foot down.  Your children may appreciate the fact that you are making the hard call when necessary vs. them having to negotiate the middle ground.  (BTW, I'm proud of your oldest daughter too for sticking up for her sister and for her need for consistency.  Way to go!)  

Also strongly agree with the post that said N will drop the kids when they show signs of individuality.  My NSIL LOVED her nieces until age 4, then she couldn't criticize them enough...the other shoe will drop.

Good luck.  I know this is a tough one.  Seeker