This could arouse anger or could be a good discussion

[isittoolate]

Hello all,

When N-mother did this (long drawn out explanation) to me, think "This is my perception of it because this is who I am/was".
When N-husband did this (long drawn out explanation) to me, think "This is my perception of it because this is who I am/was".

The important part of regaining our voice is not what happened to us (although horrific) but how we perceived it, and why and how we can change ourselves to gain the strength, assertiveness and the self-confidencce to never allow anyone to ever do this again.

The N damage is in the past, hopefully, if you have reached this board to share. (If we keep remembering the explicit harms done, we haven't 'let go'.) I have been guilty of saying N-ex son-in=law did this or that and another thing, but as the therapy continues and reading on this Board, I doubt I will be saying that again.

I will be saying I had a problem with my s-i-l and didn't stand up for myself, but now I am learning to and it feels soooooooooooo good! This shows what I have learned about WHY certain (what I thought of as awful on someone else's part)happened to me--I allowed them.

I think maybe I am saying that, sometimes, too much time is spent on decribing the N ( makes me feel that Ns are getting CREDIT for being so cruel) when we all know what they do. If we want to know "the worst things" we could start a thread on it, but mainly I feel this Board is to discuss ourselves, our faults, our improvements, our sliding back, our coming forth again, and what we are learning about ourselves -- what quality we were missing to have allowed this to happen.

I think I might be the (oldest) only person on the Board who had so many wrong perceptions about life, that wherever they came from, I grew up believing them.

My therapist asked yesterday, "Wherever did you come up with that idea?" and it made me think about who told me that, or did I have to make it up to survive?

So for one, I was so insecure I never stood up for myself and was walked over as though I had a sign on my forehead!
That leads to not trusting my own judgement to speak up with confidence.
So I have put everybody on 'the other side of my fence' and one by one I am trying to deal with My perception...fault?... of what happened with him/her as a toxic person to me, to see if that is true or not!

Did I make any sense?


Izzy

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[changing]

Wise Izzy,

You are so wise and always see the issues so clearly. I'm sure glad that you are on the side of the good guys!!! I agree with your assessments, and so have some work to do- I haven't even rid myself of all the gee-gaws yet, but I'd better get on with it and Izzyfy myself further, while I have the master to guide me!

Love,

Changing

PS- Why are you always right!!??!!

Love, C.

[reallyME]

Izzy:(If we keep remembering the explicit harms done, we haven't 'let go'.)

and this is peoples' arguments for those of us who dared to post "our story" on the board too.  So why then do we not end that section if this is how some feel?

personally, in my flesh, I'd like to blast it from the highest mountain, the abuse I've been through...for the rest of my life, but what good does it do.  The abusers don't see it, don't acknowledge that it happened, or say I misinterpreted it all...so what's the point of telling one's story if the outcome still remains that the abuser continues to abuse and desert you, me, others?

~Just my view

~L

[Overcomer]

It is so easy for me to see dysfunction in other people.  I see people re visiting their past hurts over and over.  It is like a dog returning to its vomit!  I think I am getting to the point that I do not wallow in self pity but I do think maybe I do some things automatically without thinking about it.  You go through that stage where you are mad or hurt and kind of obsess about it dont you?  Good topic Iz!

[isittoolate]

Changing,
My pizza came and I  had to stop and I am not always right
Thank you for your kind words.

an example for me was when my s-i-l kicked me out. I just left. The estrangement still exists.

I could have stayed right there and said:
I am your elder and deserve some respect.
I am your wife's mother
I am grandmother to your children
KC has done nothing wrong and I believe that 30 minutes is far to long to tirade at your son.
I know what it is like to cry without making a noise, only the tears running down my cheeks and that is KC right now.
Do you know what he is feeling?
He might be afraid of you right now. He might be wondering if he will be in double trouble, if he makes a noise.
I come here 3 days a week, 7 hours as day and look after the children
You owe me $55, 000.00 and I see no improvements from that money
Now finish your hamburger and we all will have cake and party!

Might that have put him in his placve, made my daughter respect me for standing up for myself and her and the kids. Might that have made things worse, or might he just have realized what side his bread was buttered on, and we would all still be a famly!!!!

Did I answer my own post as I was talking about?

xx
Izzy

[isittoolate]

really ME
Yes, stories are posted and that is my reference to posting the horrible details elsewhere.

What I would like to see is less talk about the N, as we all know they abuse and will continue to abuse for the rest of their lives.

Now our postings can reference something then the part of you that allowed that, and what you could have done about it. I think we are all old enough, that we can even think of childhood things and know the abuser, then ask ourselves, what could I have done?

Like "Mommmy, you hurt me when you yell at me". "Daddy why do you hit me with the strap all the time?"

[gratitude28]

Izzy,
You are 100% on the button...
I ws thinking about this today... When I got here, someone had seen me running and asked if I was a runner. I was taken aback, because, look at me... I don't look like a runner. Likewise, I met a person on Okinawa who asked me if I was a diver, and I was amazed - do I look like a diver (I was and still am licensed). I felt embarrassed to be asked this because I am so unconfident and assume people look at me and size me up and see some 'real' me that was set by my mother. This is ENTIRELY my perception. I am trying to realize that I can do all these things. I don't have to be held back by the feeling that I cannot because of the way I look or act. Does this make any sense??
Thank you for a good topic, Iz.
Love, Beth

[gratitude28]

Laura,
I think the reason for having the posts on our stories is for those looking to see if they've found the right place for help. If they can relate, they will know they are not alone. I am actually stalled in writing my story because I have let a lot of it go and don't really feel like trying to go back and remember it all. I am kind of through with it. I wrote it in a journal that is around somewhere, and when I find it I will fill in my story - but only for the sake of those looking to see if they belong here.
Love, Beth

[Bella_French]

Dear Izzy,

I can relate, especially to having grown up with a lot of perceptions that were `off', and to your observations regarding how we heal from N abuse.

Two things I notice with victims of N abuse, is that many of us go through a phase of `getting into our heads' and the tone of our posts is extremely cerebral. The other thing I notice is what you described: the need to understand and talk about the N, almost obsessively.

I have grown to see these phases as normal parts of the healing process. I think they help to undo the `brainwashing', and to rise above the strong emotional pull of an N who is a loved one. When one starts to feel that they are are focusing too much on the N and feel `too cerebral', it usually means they have come along way and are ready for the next step in their healing. Thats something I've nooticed, anyway.

You sound like you're in a good place, Izzy. I think the fact you raise these questions shows how far you've come.

Love Bella

[changing]

Wonderful Izzy-

I have ongoing safety issues with Wormbag, so I cannot entirely consign his N stuff to the past- we remain in a serious contest. I do see the wisdom in seeing how to prevent previous N things from happening again in the time that I might be revisiting the abuse for the 1000th time- learning and improving myself, as you do. Which is why I am Izzyfying right now!
If you did not speak in certain instances Izzy, perhaps you avoided a greater harm and were protecting your loved ones. You are not to blame for the bad acts of others.  Now you are free from the situation and you help me and others speak truth and power when we need to. I kept my mouth shut with the cops last week, and as a result got away from them (finally). I can tell you what happened, and you then give me the benefit of your wisdom. I know that you did your best with your daughter and the children, were incredibly generous and loving, and I think everyone else in the situation knows that too. I can only pray that they show you the love and respect that you deserve. I pity them that they are missing such a terrific and good person and loving family member from their lives.

Love You,

Changing

[isittoolate]

Thank you Bella,
I have put all the Ns out of my head, for the most part, and they are only a reference point for me to question my own perceptions and fix them when I feel they are wrong---like using a dictionary or atlas for reference.

I know there are some who obsess about the N to the point of wanting revenge (because I was that way for awhile) and now I realize the the man I met never existed; he was a puff of smoke that disappeared when his mask fell off.

They will continue on with their abuse and forget we ever existed. That is the thing to think about. Thet never loved us and when we left, we were forgotten, so why obsess and want him back?

Thanks for your post.

Love
Izzy

[isittoolate]

thanks OC

I almost responded to you in my response to Bella.

You are right about the obsession, and if people read and understand about the N moving on and forgetting, although there is the stalker, not my experience, we can get on with our lives and wonder what was lacking in us that we made such a choice in the first place.

I was missing my daughter and the kids, alone, going nowhere, and he talked of setting up a computer business together. Oh that made me happy, and we did, but he's bankrupt now. I never saw any red flags so we need a N101 class in school for our youngsters.

Love
Izzy

[changing]

ReallyMe-

I think that you make good sense about stopping current behaviors  of Ns when you can- I certainly don't want anyone to damage you, and will stand up for you if I see such a thing. We can also review what happened before with an eye toward self improvement and becoming resistant, like a healthy tree against parasites. We can't blame ourselves for not knowing before, but can grow wiser now (like our Izzy)- I've seen you do it and it makes me glad for you!!!!

Love,

Changing

[Bella_French]

Me too Izzy,

I don't give my ex's much thought any more, other than fleeting thoughts of  contempt and a shudder to think I got involved with someone like that. You're right; even thinking about them feels like  a waste of our valuable life. I did go through the `obsessive/ trying to understand/ wanting vengence' phase too. Then it felt wrong for me, and I stopped. I am happy that you have reached this place in your healing:)

X bella

[changing]

A woodchuck would chuck all the wood he could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood!


Izzy you brainy girl! An education in N- like an innoculation without mercury or side effects- just mental N antibodies!!!! Please sign me up - I am still limited in my ability to see things (as witnessed by last week)

Love,

changing