Author Topic: Invisible and Ignored  (Read 3601 times)

sun blue

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Invisible and Ignored
« on: September 27, 2007, 05:53:45 PM »
Sometimes it is just overwhelming to be so ignored and made to feel invisible by my N mom and co-dependent dad.  It is bad enough when it is done on a daily basis, but when you are going through a difficult time and could really use their help, it is beyond frustrating.  I just want to explode and cry and throw and tantrum and scream, "How could you do this to your own?  Why don't you care?"

But of course I don't.  And it wouldn't matter if I did.  They still wouldn't get it.  Recently, as I've noted on the board, I've been wresting with a job situation and I'm having a rough time making a decision.  Both my parents just ignore me even when I specifically tried to discuss it.

I'm wondering for those of you who have an N parent and co-dependent parent, how does the co-dependent parent act?  While I find it hard to accept, I can understand the disinterest from the Nparent because they are NPD.  But, I don't get the co-dependent parent's behavior.  They're not NPD.  Why don't they show interest or care or concern?

It's so hard to be alone and invisible and ignored.  Some days more than others.  But it is just so hard to understand.

 

lighter

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Re: Invisible and Ignored
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2007, 06:11:22 PM »
::Sigh::

Can you imagine what your father's been through over the years with your N mum?

I'm guessing he's been conditioned and drained of himself.... replaced with a driven desire for peace that leaves little room to help others.....

he hasn't been able to save himself :shock:

He wasn't strong and healthy when he married your mother, is my guess.

He's just one of the wounded doing the best he can.... which might actually suck but....

it's probably the best he can do with what he has (emotionally.)

So sorry.... (((Blue)))

It sounds like you've been hurt and frustrated for a long time.

I hope you can go ahead and be angry.... dissapointed and sad sad sad..... then forgive them for not being able to do better and let them go.

Doesn't happen quickly, I know but.... you sure need to process those feelings and move through them... it's all true and unfair and you deserved better, no doubt. 

 

Your parents aren't ever going to do it for you because they can't, or they would have.

Find other people to adopt.... to nurture and be nurtured by.

You can seek out better for yourself.

It gets easier once you give up hope of receiving it from those that simply cannot give it to you.... no matter how little sense that  makes. 

I'm not saying "get over it" I'm saying go through it, process it then make peace with it and stop hoping.

Replace replace replace.... isn't that AA's motto?

I'm rambling.... sorry: )






Ami

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Re: Invisible and Ignored
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2007, 06:16:03 PM »
Dear Sun,
  The awful truth is that the co dependent parent does not make a 'move" with out the approval of the N. I see that with my F ,now. He learned about N,but he is slipping back to his old" self."
  This is my brilliant idea that I realized ,yesterday. The N throws you under the bus and the codependent leaves you there--BLEH.
  Sorry Sun. I really am. We don't deserve this curse. We really don't.((((((((((((((Sun))))))))   Love   Ami

PS  - Keep writing. It will help to keep expressing yourself
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Sela

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Re: Invisible and Ignored
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2007, 06:21:59 PM »
Hi there Sun blue,

With a title like this thread has....I couldn't just ignor it.

I'm sorry I don't have any easy answers for your questions but I just wanted to let you know that I hear your pain and I'm so sorry that you have to experience it.  It's not fair!   No child should feel so uncared for.

Here, at least, you are not alone.  Nor will you be ignored.

I'm sorry I haven't read your other thread about the job situation but I can give you a little formula I use in helping me make decisions:

1.  Think of the worst possible thing that could happen.

2.  Accept it.

3.  Make a plan of what you'll do, if it happens.

4.  Forget about it because the chances are, the worst possible thing that can happen, won't.  But at least if it does, you will have thought about it ahead of time, accepted it, planned for it and all you will have left is to put your plan in place.  Saves a lot of agrivation when the facing the worst scenarios.

5.  If there's no time to do 1,2,3 and 4........go with your instincts.


I know that sounds oversimplified but I have found it to be very useful sometimes.   And to boot....I now trust my instincts.


I hope this helps even a little.

Sela

isittoolate

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Re: Invisible and Ignored
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2007, 06:48:01 PM »
hi sun blue

Quote
" I just want to explode and cry and throw and tantrum and scream, "How could you do this to your own?  Why don't you care?"

I would like to know how old you are. You don't have to tell if you don't want to, but I am 68½ and never once when I was growing up did I ever think what you did, because I didn't know those words or that I was 'allowed' to do it!

I can understand your pain, as it is through others, on this Board, that I learn the very things that likely caused me pain, but I didn't know it. It is likley stored someplace and has never been resolved.

Do you have someone else, i.e. aunt and uncle, neighbour couple to 'represent' parents and talk with them? I had a woman try to get to know me, get into my life, (I now think she understood what was happening) but I thought she was just being nosy---which I learned from my mother eavesdropping on the party line. Had I  known what I now suspect, this woman and her husband could have been my saviours!

Yes. I felt invisible too!

Hang in there
Love
Izzy


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cats paw

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Re: Invisible and Ignored
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2007, 06:49:59 PM »
Sunblue,

   My dad was always very busy, and I don't think he really knew what I needed anyway, but it's hard when you feel ignored.

   How's the decision making process going?

cats paw

sun blue

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Re: Invisible and Ignored
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2007, 07:42:04 PM »
Thanks everyone for weighing in.  You make really good points.  Lighter, you are so right in what you said.  You have to stop expecting they will act and think normally.  I guess I just never thought that was also true of co-dependents.  Even though I consider myself the most damaged and unhealthy in my family, I've had counselors who've told me they can't understand how I could think so "normally" given my dysfunctional family.  To me, it's just common sense that a mother and father would want close, loving relationships with their children that involves talking to them, visiting with them, initiating activities, being interested in their lives.  But mine don't.  I guess the co-dependency is so deep and my co-D dad is so fearful of my Nmom that he just doesn't care about having good relationships with his children.

Izzy, to answer your question, I noted that I felt like screaming, throwing a tantrum, etc....but I don't do it.  Partly because I know it would only make matters worse.  After the explosion, it wouldn't change anything.  It would just give them more ammunition to use against me.

And as for having other  people in my life growing up, no I did not...and do not.  One trait of my Nmom and co-dependent dad was that they excluded everyone from their lives. They were always very, very private.  So, they were estranged from their own siblings and family so no aunts, uncles or cousins around.  They were polite to but not social with neighbors, church goers, co-workers or anyone.  They didn't really allow us to bring friends or anyone to the house.  They always insisted that we go somewhere else (too worried about messing up the house or bothering the neighbors).  As a consequence, I really had no one.  That continues today.  I also had a N sister who was abusive. 

I also think it's a question of generations and availability of knowledge.  My parents' generation never questioned their parents or any person of authority.  They thought it disrespectful to argue with, disagree with or question them.  I think today things are different.  Also, we have the benefit of a lot more research, understanding and information regarding what is and what isn't healthy parenting or relationship behavior.

I am often consumed with the "what if's"  What if I had someone to encourage me, support me, talk to me?  Would I have been able to develop friends, relationships?  What I be more successful?  Would I not hate myself?  Would I not be suicidal or seriously depressed?  Would I have been able to experience joy and happiness?  Everyone always say how futile it is to think in terms of "what ifs" but sometimes it is hard when you look around you and see the consequences of people who had good parents and relationships.

P.S.  I'm still struggling with the job decision although I'm leaning towards taking it (only because I might have to).  I know that I will feel like an even bigger failure and more depressed.  My stomach churns even as I write this.

I guess the "normal" part of me wants to be a good daughter, a loving daughter....the kind you see on TV where the daughter and Mom talk on the phone or go shopping or go to lunch.  The mom may be nosy or offer advice the daughter doesn't want, but by the end of the conversation, mom and daughter are still ok.  Same goes for dad and daughter.  It is really hard to know that will never happen.  It's hard not to feel like a terrible daughter.  My Nmom's bitterness and resentment and misplaced blame on my brother and I prevent us from helping her in any major way.  She simply won't allow it because it's her way of "punshing" us.  She's not the violent or screaming sort of N; her method is systematic withdrawal, emotional blackmail and disinterest.  I'd almost prefer having the former.

Anyway, thanks for listening.  It gets me in the gut sometimes...especially on days like today when I'm feeling particularly alone and lonely.  I'm very honest with myself and know that if I were to die today or be sent to the hospital, there would be no one there.  No one would care.  Yet, I know I have always tried to be good and caring to people.  Always there for co-workers or so-called "friends"' and family.  But.....well you know the rest.

Take care and thanks for letting me vent.


cats paw

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Re: Invisible and Ignored
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2007, 08:03:38 PM »
Sunblue,

   Lots of sadness, lots of feelings.
   I wrestle ( used to struggle, now I wrestle) with the I'm not a good daughter thing.  

   I went and skimmed your previous post, and you said you know about your thinking processes and depression.

   "I know that I will feel like an even bigger failure and more depressed."

    IMO, taking that job, even because you might have to, is a stepping stone to change.

    I think about what if's.  Sometimes it's got a lot to do with grieving.

cats paw

Iphi

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Re: Invisible and Ignored
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2007, 09:30:26 PM »
Thanks everyone for weighing in.  You make really good points.  Lighter, you are so right in what you said.  You have to stop expecting they will act and think normally.  I guess I just never thought that was also true of co-dependents.  Even though I consider myself the most damaged and unhealthy in my family, I've had counselors who've told me they can't understand how I could think so "normally" given my dysfunctional family. 

It sounds to me like you are the 'identified patient' who displays the dysfunction of the whole family.  As such you are the one who actually is the most healthy and least repressed.  And that means... you have the most potential out of all of them - but of course not with them sucking your life force all the time.  I know you think your bro is the most normal or healthy, but I am skeptical of that.  My sister told me that she made a conscious decision to cut off her own empathy as a teen - it was a self-protective choice, but in the long run I think it has seriously hurt her.  But she sees therapy as weak and an admittance of inability to function so she has cut herself off from actually healing.  [Edited to add - she sees self-reflection and introspection as weak faffing around too - not just formal therapy] That's what I am reminded of when I read about how your bro distances himself and etcetera.

Here's a question my T used to ask me when I said absolute things like "I am a failure."   Every time she said "Who thinks that?"  "Who says that to you?"  It was so sudden, the way she said it, it was shocking.  She was shocking me out of the rut of saying that.  I just felt disoriented when she said it and I don't think I ever did admit to myself or her who really said that stuff - that stuff that I was saying to myself.  Of course my dad said it, maybe not usually directly, but I got the message.  The way I talked to myself, loyally repeating his message, shows I got the message.

Who says to you that you are a loser sun blue?  Whose voice is that? It's not your voice.  It's only masquerading as your voice inside your head.   :shock:
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 09:32:03 PM by Iphi »
Character, which has nothing to do with intellect or skill, can evolve only by increasing our capacity to love, and to become lovable. - Joan Grant

sun blue

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Re: Invisible and Ignored
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2007, 12:10:12 AM »
Yup, I'm definitely identified as the messed up one.....Well, actually, my dad views my Nsister as "sick".  When I pointed out that it was I who have been diagnosed with major depression and PTSD, that it was I who was suicidal and hospitalized, who have no one and nothing in my life, he just looks away and claims all the more fiercely that no, my poor, (N) sister has a "nervous" condition.  She refuses to seek help or therapy because that is soooooo very beneath her.  After all, she's not crazy...(it's me).  My family regards depression as weakness, therapy as something that is OK for those other people, but never for them.  Basically whatever is wrong is MY problem.
-
So, yes, I hear that "voice" telling me I'm a failure all the time.  I hear the voice...It is mine....But it is a voice that was developed over a long period of time, thanks to my Nmom's quite but obvious disapproval, judgment and disinterest.

And yes, my bro seems to be the most healthy.  He distances himself very well from my family (and lately even me).  He has everything he wants...a wonderful wife and daughter, a good job, a nice home, friends, his wife's family.  He never had the difficulties I did.  He also never had the abuse from my N sister like I did as a child.  It just seems like everyone in my family does well but me....Yet, it's me who goes to therapy, is on meds, seeks self-awareness, etc.  It's me who needs them without them needing me.

So, very frustrating and painful.  A never-ending road that leads to the same disappointments.  I always said I wished somebody would produce a special pill you could give to the other members of your family so that when they swallowed it, they immediately knew how it felt to be me, to think like me, to be on the receiving end of the pain they unleashed.

But alas, no pill.  No compassion.  No empathy

Hopalong

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Re: Invisible and Ignored
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2007, 12:33:04 AM »
I'm so sorry, Sun.

When you feel up to it, have you thought about what ways you might decide to go out and collect your own family? One example I think of is a vibrant wonderful group in my church called Healing Hearts, or something. It's like Emotions Anonymous, in some ways I believe.

The folks there have been to hell and back and they're just busy building a nurturing and supportive community of REAL and RECIPROCAL caring that gives each of them a circle of security and safety they never found at home.

I wish something like that for you from whatever source makes sense. I've done it myself with women's support groups, co-ed and multigenerational covenant groups (our last 2 had the sweetest old man, 92, who still hikes the mountains with his lively junior wife, merely 80-something) ... things like this do build what I think of as the extended family that will sustain me, and that I'll want to sustain, all the days of my life.

love
Hops
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reallyME

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Re: Invisible and Ignored
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2007, 07:35:08 AM »
sunblue,

I can relate to feeling like the "damaged one" in the family.  I felt like that growing up but I also often feel that way in my marriage.  You see, ever since I went through things with people of my past, and I began putting "labels" on what those behaviors meant, I began labeling even the people in my family.  Well, I've pretty much stopped doing that, but now, my children and husband have turned it on me, blamed me for "psychobabbling" everyone everywhere, and tell me I'm the "mental" one.  I have come to believe that there are some areas that it's better to remain voiceless in.  Even people who do have disorders in behavior, because of those problems, do not like nor appreciate you pointing it out to them.  Often, the messenger is rejected and the message ignored, brushed off, or projected onto you.


Quote
Iphi: My sister told me that she made a conscious decision to cut off her own empathy as a teen - it was a self-protective choice, but in the long run I think it has seriously hurt her.  But she sees therapy as weak and an admittance of inability to function so she has cut herself off from actually healing.  [Edited to add - she sees self-reflection and introspection as weak faffing around too - not just formal therapy] That's what I am reminded of when I read about how your bro distances himself and etcetera.

Iphi, would you say your sister has N characteristics?  It seems to me that, all that I've studied on the topic, is epitomized in these children who pretty much "raised themselves," at some crucial point of life.  I'd like to know if you'd include your sister in this description, due to the choice to cut off empathy.


Hops, I didn't know you had a church.  You do?  Tell more about the Healing Hearts Group too.  Isn't it amazing that even churchgoers have issues they struggle with?  I often have asked myself, based on the songs we sing in church "Jesus You're ALL I need"  "You're all I want"...if that were really TRUE, then why do we all seem to depend on humans so darn much?

~Laura

Hopalong

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Re: Invisible and Ignored
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2007, 08:12:22 AM »
Hi Laura,
This is my church: www.uua.org

Most of my friendships and social life flow from that...

xo
Hops

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reallyME

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Re: Invisible and Ignored
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2007, 09:23:25 AM »
Thanks.  I kind of had a feeling that was the type of church you belonged to.  The all-encompassing belief pattern, etc.  I had a friend years ago who married into the UA church.  Very pleasant wedding ceremony

Ami

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Re: Invisible and Ignored
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2007, 10:54:29 AM »
Dear Laura,
  I wanted to address the question that I though I heard you asking,"IF we have the Bible and ALL the wisdom, WHY aren't we well.?"
 I have asked that a million times. I have asked that about other people and myself. In churches, there are the same conflicts and pettiness that are anyplace else.
  My answer ,from my experience, is that God cannot get in  when we are so "plugged "up with pain and old worn out ideas. As I heal(let go of N ideas), I am getting closer to God and understanding Him in a deeper ( and  almost effortless way). Truths just come in to my head. I have heard them thousands of time,but now they go to my heart.
  I wrote a new thread about learning from conflict.
  Another HUGE thing that I was doing wrong was "permitting" myself to have fear, depression, hatred, bitterness. I was simply thinking that if anyone had my M, they were "allowed" to be miserable..
 However,I was allowing ALL  the  CORROSIVE emotions to destroy me BY letting them stay in there against OTHER people. I was getting bitten on the A## b/c I wanted to bite other people on the A##. This is so big to me. It is life changing. Let me know what you think, Laura       Love   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung