Author Topic: Remembering Rosebud  (Read 1819 times)

sun blue

  • Guest
Remembering Rosebud
« on: October 01, 2007, 12:18:03 AM »
Has anybody seen that old movie, "Citizen Kane"?  All-time great movie.  In the last scene of the movie, the main character played by Orson Welles, mouths the word "Rosebud" as he lay dying.  After a lifetime of being an exceptionally wealthy, famous and successful person, all he could think about was the red sled he was riding as a child just before he was taken away from his parents.  Even at his death, this loss of family still haunted him.

I can identify with his pain.  It just seems like you can never repair or fill that hole in your heart.  It amazes me that some people, siblings in particular, don't seem to have as big a hole or at least can fill it with someone else.  As if one cancels out the other.

I'm also reminded of how unfair it is that the victims of Ns spend so much time agonizing over this loss, trying to come to terms with it, understand the abuse, attempt to repair and rebuild.  Yet the Ns, those that caused all of this, just go on with their life as if nothing in the world is wrong.  No justice at all.

It's one thing when a N isn't getting all that fresh "narcissistic supply" from their loved ones.  Then the claws come out and the wrath is unleashed.  But what of families where that narcissistic adoration is always in fresh supply.  In my family, I have a very co-dependent dad and an equally N sister.  They both are forever and always providing my N mom with the narcissistic supply she craves.  They never tell her no.  They never disagree with her or fail to put her on a pedestal.  Those who refuse to do this because of her own evil behaviors (my brother and I) are just wiped off her radar.  Complete disinterest, emotional blackmail, a commitment to ignoring us ensues.  And my N mom is entirely ok with this.  She is calm and even appears content as long as she is getting this supply from my dad and N sis.  She will no doubt never know what it's like NOT to have that supply.  Because she doesn't, she's just fine with throwing away relationships with her other two kids and grandchild.  Meanwhile, we suffer.  We struggle.  We hurt.  She'll never do any of those things.

I, too, feel guilt at not being able to be the kind of daughter I want to be.  She won't allow it.  It's another way for her to punish me.  My N mom is fortunately healthy but I am positive that when it comes to that time, my N sister will control all the caregiving (although probably just pay for it, not do it herself).  Again, it's a way to hurt me and punish me.  Thankfully, my mom will be taken care of.  But still there will be even more guilt and sadness.  It will be just another reason to point me out to everyone she knows and say, "See, my own daughter isn't there for me."  Of course, she fails to tell them that it is because she does not want me to be there, in fact refuses to let me be there.  If I were there, it would have to be according to the rules and regs set up by her and my N sis.  I'm sure the same will be the case with my dad.

So, it's frustrating and painful.  When there is always a co-dependent partner and N child in their lives to give them that supply, they will never, ever see what they have done to their other children and significant others.  They will never hurt or regret or apologize or acknowledge.

It seems the only choices are to totally disconnect or sit there and accept and take it, at least up until a point. 

Somtimes the injustice and hopelessness of it all is truly overwhelming.

Ami

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7820
Re: Remembering Rosebud
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2007, 08:58:41 AM »
I understand so totally, Sun--- so totally and completely. I wish that I could take away the pain that results from the N. You are right. The N goes on their way like a "bull in a china shop" destroying everyone with a haughty smirk on their face.I would like to see that smirk "wiped off" too. Someday, they will reap what they saw. It is a spiritual law.
 Vaknins's book might help you face all the pain of it, which is the first step(IMO). It is HORRIBLE,unfair and pitiful. I could write adjectives all day about the horrible N.
  I feel your pain, Sun. I really,really do                       Love Ami  (((((((((((((((Sun)))))))))))))))))
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13619
Re: Remembering Rosebud
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2007, 09:15:55 AM »
Sun, I hear you too.

I'll say though, that getting pretty close to 60 and starting to see things from an older person's point of view, I'm beginning to realize that recognizing that life is not fair and that's a reality of life, not a mistake in design...has helped me.

Not fair for the young antelope that gets eaten by the lion.
Not fair for the little victim of a drive-by shooting.
Not fair for victims of Ns.

So, to get the greatest joy and sense of purpose from life, it needs to become about other things than the N. Even the N's lack of accountability and lack of reckoning.

I think it's my job in the next chapter of life to find a bigger purpose, challenge, identity. There are satisfactions galore...they just won't be in that relationship.

love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Ami

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7820
Re: Remembering Rosebud
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2007, 09:20:19 AM »
THAT is a brilliant point---Hops                                        Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

teartracks

  • Guest
Re: Remembering Rosebud
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2007, 09:36:06 PM »


Dear Sun,

My FOO has so many similarities to yours.  I've been pulled through knothole after knothole of wanting to facilitate our healing.  Why was I so dedicated to the idea?  Well, it seemed to me that since I clearly saw our pothole ridden state, I must deliver the message, Hey, we're broke.  Don't you see it?  No?  Well, let me tell you how we are.  Did you know that we've bought into a huge lie?  Can't you see it?    And.  And, I knew that if my FOO could become healthy and whole, my heart would quit aching and longing for what we should have but didn't/don't.  I honestly thought when I came out of denial (that is a seven year long story) that if I got us all together and gave "the state of the family" speech, everyone would have an automatic aha moment and jump on my bandwagon of recovery/renewal, that we'd join our heads and hearts in a unified effort to overcome our glaring dysfunctions.  NOT!   
« Last Edit: October 01, 2007, 11:41:14 PM by teartracks »

sun blue

  • Guest
Re: Remembering Rosebud
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2007, 10:01:58 PM »
Teartracks:

No is right.  The narcissists in the family will never entertain the idea that anything they do is dysfunctional nor will they listen to any theories that there is anything wrong in the family.  The codependent in the family has tunnel vision whose only purpose in life is to support the narcissist.  The healthy member in the family is only interested in disconnecting and focusing on their own functional, loving family.  They have no interest in learning or helping to address the problems in the family.  And that leaves the members of the family who have suffered the most seemingly and continue to suffer.  We want to understand and resolve and heal and improve.  It is an incredibly overwhelmingly lonely place to live.  So sad.  So hopeless.  So unfair.

Everyone else in the family seemingly is content with the way things are.  It's so ironic.  In my family, growing up, my codependent dad especially would stress how important family is and that it's the only thing that matters.  Of course, it was only talk.  But in the end, as we come to terms with the reality of all this, the truth is there is no family, there is no one to count on.  There is no one to love and care about us.  You're just alone in the world, only no one will acknowledge it.

Sometimes the pain is excruciating.  Sometimes I just want to yell at them, "What about me?  Why does no one ever think about me?"  Sounds ridiculous I know.  But it angers me sometimes to know that they very people who caused all the pain are the ones who are content, loved and cared about (at least by their co-dependents) without a care in the world about the rest of us.

Ami

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7820
Re: Remembering Rosebud
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2007, 10:21:38 PM »
(((((((((((((((((((((((Sun))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
 I have been there. Many times,I am still there. For this moment,I have a peace. You can survive it ,Sun,even though it seems utterly hopeless ,at the moment.. I think that you can thrive(I am not sure on that one b/c I am not there yet. I will let you know when I reach  'thrive")

                                                                           Love   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

teartracks

  • Guest
Re: Remembering Rosebud
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2007, 12:06:55 AM »



Hi sun,

Sometimes I just want to yell at them, "What about me?  Why does no one ever think about me?"  Sounds ridiculous I know. 

This is the stage just prior to entering recovery/renewal.  It's the getting in touch with our real reality.  It's the stage where it's next to impossible  to stand in line at Walmart without picking a fight with the one ahead of you, behind you or the poor cashier!  Snarl!  That anger you feel had to surface before you (and I) let  our metal show and begin the FOO shakedown. 

tt

PS  :oops:Didn't know I had posted that other part.  I was still editing.  It got away from me!  :oops:Here  is the edited  version.

Dear Sun,

Nearly eight years ago, I walked out of denial into a reality that shocked me to my core.  That reality?  I am from a family that is VERY similar to yours.

I fell into a state of emotional chaos.  I couldn't get myself right side up.  I was a mess.  My family was a fractured mess.  What could or should I do?  For the first time I was able to call our dysfunction what it was. WRONG!  I was broken and broken hearted.  I figured my siblings must have pothole ridden hearts like mine that ached and yearned for unity, love, loyalty, integrity, affirmation, mutuality.   I also figured that since I saw it (the extreme dysfunction) first, it was surely my responsibility to shed  light on  it.  I loved my family.  I thought if  I clued them in, we would all come together in concert and begin the work of renewal/recovery.  I mean if things are broke, don't you fix them?  My logic was, clue them in, they will get it and we can all work toward wholeness.  I bought into my own logic.  Why was I sold out to the idea that we were fixable?  Well, the main thing was that my aching, pothole ridden heart wanted desperately to experience what I knew was well within our grasp if we all just came together openhearted and willing to mend ourselves.  I knew if we did it together we would cut our suffering losses enormously.  All I wanted was for us to be healthy and whole and loving.  I didn't know how to get us there, but I knew  we couldn't afford to snub our noses at small beginnings.    In reality, I was trying (not in an angry way, but an anguished way) to superimpose my reality and new found knowledge on individuals whose reality and desires were completely different from mine.  Ultimately, out of the four of us, me, my mom, sister, and brother, I realized that I was the only one I could fix or hope to change.  I have no ownership in their lifes.  They are them.  I am me.  I still have the aching, pothole ridden heart that longs for us to be real family, but it's not going to happen.  I have two choices.  Take them as they are or leave them as they are.  Not a thrilling testimony to 'family', but it is what it is.

I know how you feel.  I know how it hurts.  I wish I could tell you that my family healed.  I wish I could offer buckets of hope.  :(

tt

sun blue

  • Guest
Re: Remembering Rosebud
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2007, 12:48:21 AM »
Teartracks:

"Pothole ridden hearts."  Ah yes, indeed, your family situation sounds sooo very much like mine.  How true it is that it seems we are the only ones in our families who care enough to want to "fix it".

In my family, I realize that I am the only one that really "needs" it.  I'm realistic to know that it will never be "fixed" totally.  I know that thanks to my narcissistic sister, we will never even be in the same room together for any occasion.  I know that my narcissistic mom and co-dependent dad will never acknowledge the damage and pain their choices have caused.  WHat I have a hard time with the casual way my parents just tossed away all sense of a relationship with two of their 3 children (myself and my brother) and their only grandchild.  Because I look at this semi-logically I think, I wonder how can parents not want a good relationship with all of their children?  How could they not take even a passing interest in their lives?  I still can't process that.

The truth is that in cases like this I believe it is the person who needs and longs for a family most that suffers and hurts the most.  The hole is biggest in the hearts of these people.  Nothing else seems to fill that hole for these people.  That is me.

I also have observed that at least for me, one of the consequences of being raised by a N mom, codependent dad (and in a family with a N sister) is that because everyone's attention always had to be in supporting the narcissists in the family, I lost all sense of having dreams or passions or interests.  Perhaps I never had them.  Because the family's world revolved around the narcissists, there was never any interest in helping others develop their interests, passions and dreams.

Now, in my case, it's often difficult for me to distinguish when or how this has become my reality.  I have been clinically depressed for nearly all my life and continue to be on medication.  So, it's hard to know whether a lack of interest or dreams or passions is due to the depression (no doubt fueled by a narcissistic family) or whether it is because I never learned those skills growing up in the family I did.  Either way, the reality is the same.  No dreams, no hope, no interests any more.  So the overall reality I may have to face is that my great hunger for the family I so desperately needed will never come to be.  And while that leaves another reality---the need to replace that hunger with something---is made almost impossible because you are left a mere shell of a real person.  Alone, lonely, sad, and lost.

It is a never-ending cycle.  While everyone else in the N family goes happily on with their lives, I am forever left sad and alone and hungering for what I can never have.


teartracks

  • Guest
Re: Remembering Rosebud
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2007, 01:12:43 AM »



Hi sun,

I'm so sorry for your depression and disappointment.   It sounds like you're just beginning the shakedown.  If that is the case, I want to encourage you to write your feelings down.  Record the stages as you pass through them.  Write as much and often as you can. 

Reading here has helped remind me that I'm not alone and that I'm in a process.  The process doesn't unfold for everyone the same. 

Hugs,

tt

teartracks

  • Guest
Re: Remembering Rosebud
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2007, 01:17:24 AM »



Hi Hops,


I'm beginning to realize that recognizing that life is not fair and that's a reality of life, not a mistake in design...has helped me.

Hops,  That is a power packed truth.

tt