Wrongly Shaped Conscience And Voicelessness. Are They Related & How?

[teartracks]

Hi everyone,

So that is my question.  Are a wrongly shaped conscience and voicelessness related and how?

tt

[Bella_French]

Dear Teartracks,

I'm not sure what you mean by `shaped' exactly, but I think I get the gist of what you're asking:)

Judging from my own family, I think an absense of conscience can be related to  voicelessness, genes, and also spoiling a child. The people I know with an `over bourden' of conscience', tend to have been voiceless, but it can also be related to being highly sensitive and in tune with other people feelings. I suppose that would be genetic?

X Bella

[Ami]

Dear TT,
  With my M( an N), she HAS a conscience, Thank God..
 If not, she would be a sociopath. I ,often, thank God for that. As bad as she was, at least she had a conscience.
 So, for her( an N), I think that her emotional development stopped at an early age( 4-5). However, she does have a conscience. She knows right from wrong. Sometimes, she is abusive even though she knows it is wrong. She simply 'wants" to be .It is like a child pulling the toy out of the other child's hand.They simply want the toy.
  Yesterday, my M wanted to vent her rage on me so badly.I could feel it coming out of every pore in her body. However, she couldn't b/c people are watching her ,now. She knows that raging is wrong. However,it feels so good to her that she does it anyway. She knows she is destroying me(conscience) BUT she doesn't care. That is the thing- she simply doesn't care,I think..
  So ,that is having a conscience,but choosing to do what you want even though you know it is wrong
   I had a b/f who I think was a sociopath. That was a whole new ball game than an N.(YIKES, I could be in some ditch,now.)
  Actually,as I write this, I am not sure how the conscience relates to "voicelessness" exactly. I know that it must . However,I can't see the actual connections clearly. Maybe,  other people can express it better.I will be waiting to hear.                             Love to you TT                    Ami

[Hopalong]

If you're voiceless, you don't get basic emotional needs met.
But you still have the natural drive to get them met.
It has to go somewhere.
So it can turn around and corkscrew back inside, and mess with your conscience.

Hops

[Poppy Seed]

I think I have a couple of those corkscrews!!

I feel guilty for speaking up.

And guilty for trying to get my needs met. 

Guilty....guilty .... guilty......both things seem to hurt people.  And nice little girls aren't suppose to do that.

[Ami]

THAT is what I was trying to say,Poppy. I have the  "tapes" that nice girls should not be,,,strong, angry, care for themselves( selfish), assertive,  etc. These tapes are really an impediment to healing. That is why I am expressing them --as a way to let them go.
  The hardest ones for me are 'Nice girls should not be strong( this includes being able to get angry and defend yourself) OR take care of their own needs and feelings( selfish).   BLEH                           Ami

[Poppy Seed]

I hope, Ami, that you could make a list of all those things nice little girls do and chuck it out the window.  It is such a prison!!! to try to march by such backwards  rules.  Anyway, I think "NICE" is highly overrated!!!!

[Ami]

What you will be is a "nice" corpse.

[teartracks]

Bella,

I'm not sure what you mean by `shaped' exactly, but I think I get the gist of what you're asking:)

The subject of conscience is such a complex one that I didn't know exactly how to ask the question to keep it on track and in context along the lines of voicelessness from parental influence.  Let me try again.  On the board, there seems to be a strong consensus (I agree with the consensus) that parents have the power to give or take a childs voice.  That the parent can overlay the child's mind with a veneer lifted from themselves rather than simply guiding and nurturing the unique, original mind God gave the child.  Then I got to thinking that perhaps the two conscience and voicelessness might be the same or minimally entertwined.  This whole question has my mind in a twist right now.

Now, I'll read the other posts.  Thanks.

tt

[Ami]

^{[This whole question has my mind in a twist right now.}





That is funny, TT                                             

[Poppy Seed]

It is shame!  Shame warps the conscience!!  Shame shuts the lips and eyes and the inner voice.  Kids get it, you know?  Don't you remember the days before you felt so bad about stuff.  Child-like wisdom.  But the infusion of shame brings worth into question and warps what is truly moral and immoral and confuses ones abillity to voice.

Shame is bad.....very very bad.

[teartracks]

Ami,

If not, she would be a sociopath. I ,often, thank God for that. As bad as she was, at least she had a conscience.

This is one reason my mind is in a twist about the conscience thing.  I'm thankful that we had pretty stringent moral guidelines in the FOO.   But disappointed  that they didn't include allowing me to be me.  Now I feel selfish  .  So that gets me to wondering if the conscience and the sense of agency that Dr. G says a child needs are  nurtured along two different tracks.  Then I get to wondering if a congruence of the two wrongly shaped tracks has to take place to create a sociopath.  Lord I have questions!  Help!

Pops,

I feel guilty for speaking up.

Please don't hesitate to speak up to me Pops.  If you can make heads or tails of what I'm asking here, I'd love to hear your thoughts. 

Hops,

Yeah, one of the things I'm trying to understand is how a parent nurtures a right foundation in a child's conscience vs a faulty one.

tt

[Poppy Seed]

What you will be is a "nice" corpse.

HA HA!  Not me.  I may be a lot of things, but my will is stronger than my weakness.  I refuse to die!!!! 

[Bella_French]

Yeah, one of the things I'm trying to understand is how a parent nurtures a right foundation in a child's conscience vs a faulty one.

Dear TT,

I have come to believe that `empathy ' dictates the human conscience above all, even above learned morals and parental guidance (although they do help!).

By the laws of empathy, the rule of thumb is that `if it harms someone else, don't do it'. Morals and education refine this, and help with dealing with complexities and ambiguities, but the empathy has to be there in the first place, for  `conscience' to have any  meaning to an individual, I think.

Is there a particular situation on your mind that you'd like to talk about, or is this more of a general type of question?

X Bella

[teartracks]

Hi Bella,

Is there a particular situation on your mind that you'd like to talk about, or is this more of a general type of question?
 
Right now, this whole question is a jumble in my mind.

Do you think a child comes pre-wired with empathy?  Or is it a combination of genetic and environment? 
I agree that empathy is foundational.

I grew up with Nmom and a highly spiritual dad.  I think a large part of my question revolves around trying to figure out how and to what degree they as individuals influenced the shaping of my conscience.  My dad taught us morals inspired by his spiritual beliefs and a conviction that following a high moral code would make us better people.  Nmom taught no morals.   With her it was more of a Morals de jour situation.  When I think of it this way, it is as if my conscience was influenced by my dad.  My voicelessness was the legacy of Nmom.   It seems that voicelessness is a disease of the emotions more than a disease of the conscience.  What do you think?

Wiki defines conscience this way.  Conscience is an ability or faculty or sense that leads to feelings of remorse when we do things that go against our moral values, or which informs our moral judgment before performing such an action. Such feelings are not intellectually reached, though they may cause us to 'examine our conscience' and review those moral precepts, or perhaps resolve to avoid repeating the behaviour.

I welcome input on this if you can make heads or tails of where I'm going with it.

tt