Shame

[Poppy Seed]

Axa thought maybe I should write about the "shame" I  am struggling with.  So, Axa, your wish is my command!!!

You know, I don't have anything wise or witty or helpful to say about it.  I know it is in my head.  It creeps into most of my thoughts and accompanies most of my actions.  I feel guilty for how I cut the veggies and badly about how my towels are folded.  I know that the simplest things can throw me into a depression or a fit of despair and I battle the despair almost everyday.  It is frustrating and oppressive.  I thought it was PTSD.  I thought it may be biological....cuz my periods were so whacked and my hormones feel so out of balance.

I was praying the other night about why I am not feeling better...after all the working and trying.........and the answer came very simply.  SHAME.  I knew I had some shame inside but I didn't recognize the extent or the breadth.  I started to study shame a bit and learned a few things.  Maybe others here have better insight into it.

Here are some things I have read in the last little while that illustrate better what I think I am feeling...........

Shame manifests itself physically in a wide variety of forms. The person may hide their eyes; lower their gaze; blush; bite their lips or tongue; present a forced smile; or fidget. Other responses may include annoyance, defensiveness, exaggeration or denial. Because the affect of shame often interferes with our ability to think, the individual may experience confusion, being at a loss for words, or a completely blank mind.

Shame is often experienced as the inner, critical voice that judges whatever we do as wrong, inferior, or worthless. Often this inner critical voice is repeating what was said to us by our parents, relatives, teachers and peers. We may have been told that we were naughty, selfish, ugly, stupid, etc. We may have been ostracized by peers at school, humiliated by teachers, treated with contempt by our parents. Paradoxically, shame may be caused by others expecting too much of us, evoking criticism when our performance is less than perfect. Some authority figures are never satisfied with one's efforts or performance, they are critical no
matter what. Unfortunately, these criticisms become internalized, so that it is our own inner critical voice that is meting out the shaming messages, such as: "You idiot, why did you do that?," "Can't you do anything right?,"or " You should be ashamed of yourself," etc.

Clearly these shaming inner voices can do considerable damage to our self esteem. These self criticisms, that we are stupid, selfish, a show-off, etc., become, in varying degrees, how we see ourselves. For some of us,  the inner critical judge is continuously providing a negative evaluation of what we are doing, moment-by-moment. As mentioned before, the inner critic may make it impossible for one to do anything right, telling you that you are too aggressive, or not aggressive enough, that you're too selfish, or that you let people walk all over you.


I also read some stuff here at this website and simply cried and cried.  Especially about the part that says:  People who've been deeply shamed
need to be fully loved and accepted and valued!  
http://helpyourselftherapy.com/topics/shame.html

Getting out of shame based thinking is my next big climb.  I feel like if I could rework this part of my thinking....my whole life would change.

I also want to say that this topic is a very tender one for me....one of those open wound kind of things......

Poppyseed

[Poppy Seed]

Just one more feeling......being not wanted and not wantable.  This is a big one for me. 

[Poppy Seed]

I have learned that I must do three things:

1)  Experience deep healing in my self concept.

2)  Experience deep healing in my relationship with God.

3)  Experience deep healing in my relationship with others.

I also need to stay away from people who don't treat me well.  I need to stop asking them to treat me better.  That appears as weakness to them.  I need to hold them accountable and myself accountable for the time I spend with them.  I need to allow the good things people offer me to sink in.  I need to believe them without allowing any victimization or manipualation.  I need to monitor what I am thinking after someone has treated me poorly and the thoughts that I may be thinking about the event.  I need to make sure I don't characterize my mistakes as defects in who or what I am.  I need to associate with people who will and do value me and accept it and show appreciation for these people.

[Bella_French]

Dear Poppyseed,

That is so painful; hugs to you. At least you know what you're dealing with now.

I think you cut to the heart of what shame is all about; its repeating someone else's negative script in your head, continuing the abuse that someone else started long ago.

I am sorry for your pain, Pops.

X Bella

 

[teartracks]

((((((((((((((Warm Hugs Pops)))))))))))))))

Pops,  do you think shame and guilt are the same or maybe first cousins? 

Thanks for starting this thread.  I'll be reading and learning.

tt

[Ami]

Dear Poppy,
(((((((((((((((((Poppy))))))))))))). I have much to contribute ---- -unfortunately.I just want to think about it today and get back    .                     Love   Ami

[lighter]

You are needed and wanted here..... ((Poppy))

You are needed and loved by your children.

Setting boundaries, however uncomfortable, is a great step to nurturing and protecting yourself.

It also gives you something else to think about, outside your normal critical thought pattern towards yourself.

New habits are hard won.

You see what the dynamics involved are..... which is important in figuring out what you should be doing, then making a plan.

I still say it's all about pretending..... doing things for ourselves that aren't comfortable.  

If we wait till we feel worthy....... it's not soon enough.

I still like to stop and think to myself...... "what would Sheriff Andy Taylor do?"  heh...... it focuses me on something besides the little habitrail in my head and helps me view things differently.

It's a shifting.....

It's stepping outside of ourselves and viewing things differently.

It's also very difficult to do and takes practice.....

Whatever becomes habit becomes pleasure.  

So important to keep a journal so you don't lose focus or get too confused by all the moving parts.

What you've accomplished and don't want to lose sight of.....

what you want to work on, that seems important to your healing journey now....

what you want to work on, later..... down the road..... after you've made a couple other more important changes.

We are creatures of habit.

That works against us at first.....

then,

if we're diligent and mindful.... it works for us.  

Intentions are everything.

Begging our morning with silence.... focused on what we want for today..... for ourselves.

You're aware of your thoughts and how destructive they are for you.

You know you want to replace them.

Give yourself permission to STOP those feelings and give to yourself...... like you would to your child.

Give yourself kindness in thought and actions..... forgive yourself for the thoughts that aren't healthy then turn to the thoughts you'd like to replace them with..... with kindness in your heart.

There is a little child inside of you who feels these things.... IMO at least.

She's trying to be heard.

She needs to be heard.  

I think it's shower time...... get comfortable and sink into the pain and let her talk about all of it.

If it doesn't come out.... it will haunt you when you fold towles, when you cook, when you communicate with others...... it comes out in all sorts of ways.... like being haunted.

And I suppose we are being haunted.

Let her finally talk about it..... then teach her better ways.... show her what's real NOW.

Nurture and guide into mindful thoughts and self care.

So much to digest and re learn.  

So much harder to re learn bc we have to un learn too.  

On top of that..... you have real shaming controlling people mucking about with you AND your husband and children.

How in the world do you focus on all these moving parts?!?!?

Begin in the morning... with mindful focused thoughts about your intentions for the day.

Write these thoughts down in your journal.

Write when you're feeling anxiety and when you're feeling anger or fear.

Write when you're feeling better.

Then go back and re read it all.

Write some more.  

Focus on your intentions and remember to stop during your day and enjoy those things you are seeing, smelling, touching and feeling in the moments.  

Really stop and be present in the moment with your children at least 15 mindful minutes in a day, if you can.

Eventually..... some of these things start to seem familiar and become habits.

I guess the next hurdle is to fight the tendency to slack up a bit.... so grateful are we to feel this respite... we just want to HAVE it and enjoy it.

But... alas.... must stay focused and keep journaling and remain mindful about our path and what we wish to change and own for ourselves.  

You're teaching your children these lessons too..... though it's not aparent to them.  

They're affected and they benefit when mama's more centered and learning.... growing.  

It's wonderful..... even though it's scary as hell..... it's still a teaching opportunity and better to look forward to doing better.... than fear staying where we are?

Sorry so long..... I feel better it's out.

Thanks for this opportunity to post on this topic.... very powerful subject for me as well: )

[Certain Hope]

Dear Poppy,

I am facing the shame for the lie that it is. It dies hard.

Here's a little exercise on overcoming shame:
http://freeinchrist.truepath.com/manna/S8.htm

The seven pages which come before it are worth reading, too.

Love to you,
Carolyn

[Certain Hope]

Pops,

Here's some more of what I've been working through...
Don't want to overload you with stuff, but some of it may be very helpful. Only please know that there's no need to respond to me about any of it... I just want to offer it out here for whatever it's worth.
This is what I've written up in my own notes so far... more of an outline format:

I've been reading this book preview -
Shame: Theory, Therapy, Theology   by Stephen Pattison
http://books.google.com/books? id=CIhEhpLR6qEC&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=bypassed+shame&source=
web&ots=SZPyd1XLQP&sig=Aycll9im-ODBwaq2BxbHB0o3hCc#PPA94,M1

On pg. 94, the author notes a couple examples from his own life of what it means
to have a personality shaped by a pervasive sense of shame and being ashamed.
He says that as he writes his books, lectures, or papers for publication, he finds it
very difficult to write down the words... it feels like "every word has to be
squeezed out of me, over my own dead body, so to speak...."

On page 96, he suggests that it's plausible to suggest that "any experience that
constitutes a rejection, objectification, or boundary invasion of the person that
induces a sense of social or individual worthlessness, alienation, or abandonment
- if severe enough, long enough, or repeated enough - is likely to contribute to
the development of a chronic sense of shame.

(For me, I feel that this cycle of rejection began the very first time I cried, as
an infant, if not pre-natal... so now it's requiring a series of conscious choices to
continually place it back where it belongs, day by day and sometimes moment by
moment.

Pg. 110  "Individuals who are shame-prone, shame-vulnerable or chronically
shamed in terms of their identity and personality often perceive themselves to be
weak, inferior, ineffective, defiled, defective, unlovable, diminished, depleted
failures. Frequently, they will base their reactions, assumptions, or 'scripts' about
life upon these perceptions."

"The experience of shame, with its sense of exposure, inferiority, confusion and
weakness, is such a painful one that individuals learn to defend against it to avoid
experiencing it: 'almost any affect feels better than shame' (Nathanson 1992:312).

(I feel sure that this shame has been the driving force behind my own addictive and
compulsive behaviors, along with the entire motivational mindset of doing, doing, doing in
order to accrue value as a person.)

Pg. 111 gets into the four basic defensive scripts against shame, construed as the compass of shame.

Withdrawal is at the north point of this compass, avoidance at the south;
 the defence of 'attack self' at the eastern point, opposed at the western point by 'attack other'.

This section is well worth reading... but it's too much to type up here.

Chapter 7 (pg. 154 of the preview) gets into dealing with shame - the task of integration... the concept of being recognized as distinct, and yet belonging within the community.
"When individuals experience the 'too-littleness' of isolation they may experience shame. But they may also experience it if their individuality and its boundaries are overwhelmed by social incursion..."   (for me, this was religious training).
"The dual causation of shame by too much isolation or too much social attention may be compared with Shengold's observation that the shame-related condition of individual soul murder is the product of either deprivation, or of trauma in which a person is over-stimulated and overwhelmed."  (I experienced both - one at home and the other at church-school.)

"Shame manifests itself in individuals as a painful sense of self-consciousness, self-alienation, depletion, defectiveness, defilement, weakness, inferiority, and inarticulacy."  (*Voiclessness!*)
Individuals feels thrust back into themselves, unwanted and unwantable, both by others and themselves. They defend against the sense of shame by developing habitual scripts and defenses which can then become fixed reactions or personality traits..."  (Wow!)

Check out the epilogue, too...I know that angel of judgment of which the author speaks, but he has no authority in my life... or yours.

Some more excellent tools for healing shame:  http://www.coping.org/innerhealing/shame.htm

Right now I'm working on the aspect of "pulling-in behaviours", here: http://www.coping.org/lowesteem/pull.htm-
it's cool how this site shows the positive potential wrapped up in what may have been, to date, negative personality traits.
Offers me alot of hope.

Love to you,
Carolyn

 

[Gaining Strength]

Poppyseed - I am so thankful that you had the courage to write about shame.  I think it is one of the most damaging and underacknowledged aspects leading to damaged lives.  For years the only book I had on the subject was Bradshaw's book which I thought was masterful in describing toxic shame but lacking in what to do about it.

One of the things that has always struck me is that shame has completely robbed me of the ability to be productive.  I have not given up and will not but I am angry about the unfairness of a life desimated by shame because I had the great misfortune to be born into my family and to make it doubly bad it was a prominent family to many mistakenly thought was a privilege.

Shame is so difficult to overcome because it is a thief that hides deep in the unconscious and subconscious and then when exposed it's tenacles seem to have tenacious strength to hold on.  Like a hydra it seems to be immune from defeat. 

Should any of us find our way out of this wretched maze we much find a way to help others out as well.  It took me so long to understand that I have been held hostage by shame that half my life has pasted me by.  But I refuse to give up on the rest of my life.  There must be a way out and I am sure that we can find it somehow.

[axa]

Dearest Poppy,

Thank you for starting this thread.  I think it is the core of much of my unhappiness and self destructive experiences.  I am not worthy, don;t I know this one.  I am unloveable. 

I struggle with shame voice daily but counter it by addressing it out loud - no I am not stupid, I am human and made a mistake.  Addressing the shame voice is part of my daily grind.  The results to date are that I can stand in front of a mirror and say "well Axa you are looking pretty good today.......... that was a good piece of work, Axa,........ for me it takes constant affirmation from myself.  I figured out that there is no point in going out there looking for love until I find that love in myself first.  So I struggle daily with addressing the shame voice by my adult self and softly nurturing that shamed little girl who has run amok in the world.

There are many things I will address in other posts here but have to go out.  Again thank you Poppy for having the courage to trust us with your words.

gigantic hugs,

axa

[isittoolate]

There was a very good thread from before---
http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=4011.0

that might help those not around then
Izzy

[Poppy Seed]

Hello everyone,

I am sorry I haven't responded sooner.  It has been a busy weekend and I have been running hither and yon!!  On the upside, I got to spend my IKEA gift card...$80.00.  I had never been there before.  What a store!!!

Izzy,
Thanks for nudge to look back.  I felt a little redundant posting this because I know this topic must have been talked about a million times.  Thanks for your insight as I learn from the ground up.

Axa, 
thanks for the hug and for the nudge to look more directly at this topic.  It has taken center stage for me.  As I went to bed last night, all I could think was how great I would feel if I could slay this dragon.  XO to you.  We will make it through!  We have to!  SOOO looking forward to your ideas and comments.

Ami,
Thanks for your contributions lately. It feels better than before.  Thanks so much.  I feel conditioned to be rejected ... just like you feel conditioned to be the garbage pail.  It is a crazy series of events in my life that have led me to this point.  But, it feels good to finally be ready to lay it down.  Sometimes I feel so much shame about the rejection, and so much shame that I can't do the "obvious" and not feel it.  It is crazy.  I do need to take control of the these thoughts and deal with them as toxins.  And get them out of my head. 

GS,
I so appreciate your comments.  Thank you.  It is a wretched maze, isn't it?  So hard to find our way out!  I feel that it has hijacked my life.  It has kept me from trying things, from meeting people, from reaching goals, and from being myself.  It has given me a false sense of self and caused me to hide in my voicelessness.  I am amazed now, that so much of my current state is because of shame.  It is astonishing to me.  I hadn't given it enough attention before. I have worked on so many aspects of my pain, and it seems that I can see it better with other issues out of the way.

You are strong.  And I feel your courage and determination.  We will get though!  We will!  Bansai!!!!!


Carolyn, 
Thanks my dear!! Thank you!  I am about half way through the stuff you posted.  Feel like I am looking into a picture of myself as I read.  I am a poster child for shame it seems!  Ha!  I really want to concentrate on what to do to eliminate the patterns of thinking.  I try so hard and it does die hard!!!  I am glad you are finding relief.


Lighter,
You infuse me with vision and direction and strength every time you post!! Thank you for being someone I can rely on.  You help me see through the fog.  Can't say thank you enough.  I used to journal a lot.  But I would go back and read and hate that those feelings came out of me.  I couldn't bare to look any longer and so I quit.  Now, I may start again.  I have been thinking about it for a while.  I am doing better with prayer.....talking through my thoughts with God and asking for the thought not to return.  Asking for help in believing the truth about my goodness and my wantableness (is that a word??).



Love to you all. -- Poppyseed

[Poppy Seed]

Ok.   A lot of what I am reading is about going back to the inner child and helping the child feel the pain of the past and that this process is suppose to heal.  Well, I feel frustrated by this.  I feel like I have done this on my own and in therapy a million times over.  And the pain is still there.  This part feels like a impossible maze!  I have looked at every aspect of my pain and every aspect of what I felt as a child and why.  I am done with that.  It is over.   Much of my pain and shame comes because of recent events, anyway.  I know that I was programmed to shame myself from birth, but I feel frustrated with the feeling for being trapped.  Sometimes I wonder if it is like devil snare from Harry Potter.  Maybe if you struggle it kills you more, but if you hold still or shine light, it will let go of you.  Hmmmmm........

Poppy

[Lupita]

Poppy shame is my problem. Thank you for posting. Shame and abandonement.