Author Topic: Need Some Help  (Read 6957 times)

axa

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Re: Need Some Help
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2007, 08:35:54 AM »
Ami,

What I meant was that it is so good to have this place to come to where people are clear and real.  I don't find too much of that in the 3d world.

xxx

axa

Ami

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Re: Need Some Help
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2007, 01:55:47 PM »
I have to tell you the "ending" to my story. After ALL your loving and caring responses,I felt a peace.I knew that a big part of my problem was that I simply had so many issues all "squished" together.The biggest issue was ,"Could I REALLY trust myself?"
  Today Maria came over and I said,"Let's go to the consignment shop?" This place has really , beautiful furniture from model homes, close outs from nice furniture  stores etc,. However,it is rooms and rooms of "piled up " furniture that I could never(in a million years) figure out what  to get. I feel like I want to faint when I get out of there.It is one of those types of places.
   Maria  helped me find the most beautiful  and unusual things. We found two  beautiful chandeliers, a really nice statue and  some bedroom furniture  for the kids. One of my son's had a box for an end table(O.K. I was in a depression for years).
 The other one had a bureau that you would catch your fingers in. My S(younger ) caught another appendage in it when he was little.('nuff said)
   So, we are going to go back on Saturday b/c I have a feeling that a few more things will be there.
     I learned so much from my relationship with Maria. I learned that  I need to trust myself .If I lose anyone,so be it.. It is really heard to trust yourself to  make a stand.
  I learned that I can speak up. I learned that I don't have to be good at "housekeeping" things b/c I am not. It is O.K. God provided s/one who was.
   I learned that the girl with the e mail has so many problems and I cannot help her..
  I learned that my M is like a three year old and I can't  do anything about it.If I hate her,I am hating a 3 yr.old who "can't really help it"(in many ways)
   I learned that I HAVE to get out of my " room". I have to force myself to have relationships (even though I would rather hide.)
   Maria told me that I looked really good today-- really peaceful. The girl in the store said the same thing. The biggest and hardest thing is accepting that my M is 'retarded" in a way( and NOT the SWEET  Down's Syndrome type)
  I know that I am healing. The  key has been you ,my friends,  on the board. Maria told me today that she really could not understand what I went through with my M.It is it's own type of abuse. I never fit in different support groups ,but I fit here.
  Thank you to everyone who responded to my cry for help. I was feeling so desperate and thanks to you,I have learned so many lessons                          Love   Ami
 
 
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

anonymous

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Re: Need Some Help
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2007, 02:15:37 PM »
Quote
I learned that the girl with the e mail has so many problems and I cannot help her.
.


You can and should only help someone who ASKS for help.  If someone is telling you over and over that they are okay and don't need or want help then that should be the end of it.  Telling them that they should not write you any more is just MEAN.

If the real truth was known about what happened and what was said, the full story, than the reactions you've gotten might be very different.

Constantly asking a person over and over to do something that they don't want to do because they have been hurt by it just because YOU think it's the best thing to do is not helpful.

The girl is not a girl but a grown, capable woman and she is just fine.  Thank you.

Ami

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Re: Need Some Help
« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2007, 02:20:21 PM »
Can we please  end this? I should not be penalized for trying to be a decent  ,loving person.
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

changing

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Re: Need Some Help
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2007, 03:02:43 PM »
Dear Ami-

You are a generous soul who tries to help in every way that you can in a thoughtful and effective way, for the highest good of all. This is a very brave way to live- it is easier and less messy to either be dishonest with yourself, or to turn away and not bother. I truly admire and respect your principled  approach to life and the people in it, and your generous nature.

Love and Kudos to a Special Lady,

Changing

isittoolate

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Re: Need Some Help
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2007, 04:34:16 PM »
Quote
I learned that the girl with the e mail has so many problems and I cannot help her.
.


You can and should only help someone who ASKS for help.  If someone is telling you over and over that they are okay and don't need or want help then that should be the end of it.  Telling them that they should not write you any more is just MEAN.

If the real truth was known about what happened and what was said, the full story, than the reactions you've gotten might be very different.

Constantly asking a person over and over to do something that they don't want to do because they have been hurt by it just because YOU think it's the best thing to do is not helpful.

The girl is not a girl but a grown, capable woman and she is just fine.  Thank you.


Can we please  end this? I should not be penalized for trying to be a decent  ,loving person.


Oh No. Not another Board person, since you answered here!!!!!

Iz

Ami

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Re: Need Some Help
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2007, 06:08:17 PM »
All my life my parents have both accused me of having evil motives, really, underneath it all. It's beyond distressing.  my mom used to tell me she knew i wanted to murder my sister - when i was 3, 4 years old.  it was torture. i had such nightmares - believed i was evil because she told me so.  Point is - my mom suffers from paranoia.  the stuff she said, the evil motives lurking everywhere - i could never prove myself, not sufficiently, not really.  But it took many years for me to understand - it was never about me at all.  My dad too though that has been so much harder to see - much more subtle but also to his advantage all the time.  but it's the same thing.  It's paranoia - that is what it is and what it does and that is exactly how it works - accusing others of secret evil intent, of falseness, all the time - always seeing that lurking.[/color][/sup]


Dear Iphi,
  Your post has stuck with me since I read it. I have a few questions for you. Were you able to NOT   take it so  personally what your M said b/c she had a "real" disease---schizophrenia?
  If you took it personally as a child, once you found  out about the disease ---were you able to not take it as personally?
  Is it easier not to be affected by your M's words vs, your F's b/c your M has a "real" disease?(Most people  do not recognize N as a disease except for us-- the unfortunate ones who have no choice--- BLEH)
 I was just wondering if having a diagnosed condition makes  it easier to NOT personalize it.
 Maybe once you already are "brainwashed" as a young kid, then the 'label" of the disease does not matter b/c you are already "brainwashed  by the words  and  actions.
   Thanks for your responses. I admire your insight,Iphi                     Love    Ami



WOW what did I do? I never knew how to do that type of highlighting? Still don't know what I did.
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Iphi

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Re: Need Some Help
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2007, 10:48:31 PM »
Hi Ami - first did you use the Quote thing?  Probably the 'close quote' code is after the end of your text and that is why it is all in the box.

I don't know - there's no to-the-point kind of answer that I can say.  It's been a whole life story, you know?  I didn't know what my mom's illness was, and even after it had a label I didn't know much about it.  I definitely took it completely personally and believed I was somehow evil in a way that I could not do anything about - like hair color or eye color.  I was afraid that she somehow knew that I wanted to do bad things that I myself did not know I wanted to do.  But on the other hand, my mom was so non-functional as a mother that I had to look out for myself and my sister too, so I had to rely on my own judgment from very early, in direct opposition to her judgment.  And a lot of her fears I always felt were stupid - some of my earliest memories are of such incidents.  I didn't like it when she talked to me and told me her point of view (in retrospect because it was crazy) and in general I liked to avoid her and do for myself as much as possible.  So I guess what I'm saying is - it impacted me hugely and yet there were other things going on inside me that minimized her impact in many ways. 

It took a long time to feel healed from the extreme self hatred of feeling evil.  Whenever I did act poorly - lashing out, being a jerk, whatever - it seemed to confirm my mom's view of me and I had extreme internal reactions of self loathing. 

I was raised catholic and when you are 7 you take first communion.  The nun who taught us in Sunday School impressed upon us how important it was to be pure and virtuous when receiving communion.  I was convinced I would burst into flame the moment the wafer touched my incredibly evil person.  I did make communion but came down with a high fever the same day - I've always thought my internal extreme anxiety probably brought that fever on (and many other illnesses in years to follow).  It was such a relief to lay down those ideas she put on me.  She put some others on me - she used to tell me I disgusted and repelled her and made her sick when I smiled at her and all sorts of stuff.  These are just some examples. 

From an early age I tried very hard to be nothing like her.  Even in mannerisms or expressions - I would stamp them out in myself if they were like her.  For some years I felt a lot of contempt and animosity toward her and that tempered gradually and left in my early 20s. 

It doesn't seem fair to bring these things up because these things don't hurt me anymore.  But this is how I threw all my faith into my dad, which as it develops turned out to be a really terrible idea, but not quite as terrible as being with my mom with her having parental power over me - a horrible, life endangering situation.  But maybe there was no real alternative.  I don't know.  What I admire so much is when people post that they had a part of themselves able to be detached from their parent and able to assess that the parent was ill and/or troubled and/or evil.  I never had that kind of detachment.  As much as I tried so hard not to be like my mom, I tried very hard to emulate my dad.  That troubles me so much - what a role model!  Who knows what N habits need to be rooted out? 

So I guess I would say, my mom was obviously ill even though I did not understand the symptoms or have a context.  Therefore she had little authority with me after a certain point and I disregarded her words and actions as an authority even though there was still earlier negative stuff she laid on me that had to be overcome (I had to learn how to do so - for a long time it was just there).  At an early point I refused her.  But my dad carried great authority with me and I had no detachment.  Also it was desperate survival.  There was no one outside the family who I could go to and no experience of unconditional love at all.  My mom's family distanced themselves and my dad's family supported him at the expense of the children (as in 'poor Ndad saddled with pups that would be better drowned').  Books saved me, and my mystical bent (and experiences), an ability to experience unconditional love inside myself - to imagine it in general and maybe temperment.  Plus, I love beauty, virtue, goodness, music, art - somehow these things fed me sort of like the sun shines on all things and feeds them.  It was enough to go along with, though fact is I was deeply self-hating for my "offenses."   But also my dad's grandiosity - which is so tied with being perceived as a wonderful guy, a wonderful parent. He loves/d to be seen to be doing things in the role of 'great dad,' and I believed in him even though it was all hollow at the core and involved such servitude mental, emotional, physical (attentive attendance to his every need/command).  So ironic that the pretense of normality may have been enough to live upon.  But believing in something false, maybe it is enough to survive for a while, but ultimately it is not enough.   But I will say that because he liked the role so well, and I believed in him and it, I actually have a lot of good memories of activities and things we did.  They are somewhat soured by the knowledge that he did them because he adored his own image in doing them and he got NS.  But in his way my dad actually did more with us than most dads and many another parent of either gender that I knew.  We were in indian princesses and did projects and went camping and went to museums, did sports, classes, went out to interesting restaurants.  We did so much stuff and it was good.  The price was to be a minion.   

So I don't know if an N parent is worse.  If my Dad had left us, we would probably be dead through some misadventure or other.  My mom was completely incapable.  She would lock us out of the house and not answer the door - when we were toddlers. I used to take my little sister to play behind the hedge around the building so that we would be inconspicuous and not in the open, vulnerable.  My mom would tell me on no account to walk home from school with my friends or else I would be punished and that she would pick me up.  Then she would never come and I would wait for hours alone trying to look inconspicuous.  The neglect constantly placed me and my sister in danger indirectly and she was sometimes dangerous directly.  The house could have burned down.  She could have taken that belief in my evil and done me in.  Who knows.  It was terrifying and yet disgusting and yet pitiful and yet frustrating and tedious.  God, so glad it is over!!

But an Nparent is unrelenting slavery mental, emotional - to survive with an N parent you have to believe their reality and reflect it back at them like a fanatic.  Or else. 

Jeez it all sounds so bad written out like this!  But yet I don't know how to describe it but I had a good time a lot of the time as a kid. 

I'm sure this ramble makes little sense but I guess it's all been just quite the learning curve.  And yet it's something that has no currency.  Much of my energy has gone into learning how to be normal enough.  I studied other kids like an alien living incognito on planet earth.   :lol:  And I protected the secrets completely.  I was a complete collaborator in the facade.  A true believer I guess. Edited to add:  you can bet I mentioned none of these family adventures on college application essays or to my classmates.  Sometimes I read of the difficulty of young people who won't break the family code of silence but it is also about survival.  Certainly I would have to feel very safe in my ability to survive and protect myself before I could break silence on these things.  Also I would have to be certain that I would not be rejected, destroyed or hunted for telling the truth.

Uh not so sure this answers any questions, but gee I guess it is the most forthcoming I've ever been on here.  So maybe it helped me come forward a little bit.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2007, 11:00:36 PM by Iphi »
Character, which has nothing to do with intellect or skill, can evolve only by increasing our capacity to love, and to become lovable. - Joan Grant

Ami

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Re: Need Some Help
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2007, 10:57:56 PM »
Dear Iphi,
  You are so precious. Thanks so much for responding.I feel like I know you so much better.Also,I have more of a heart and an understanding of what it took for us simply to survive.It was quite an accomplishment.                               Love   Ami

(((((((((((((((((((Iphi)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

lighter

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Re: Need Some Help
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2007, 06:04:40 AM »
Iphi.... I'm so glad you shared more about yourself here. 

It's Ok.

Your parents were the broken ones... not you and your sister and you deserved better.


Poppy Seed

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Re: Need Some Help
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2007, 08:38:24 AM »
Wow Iph, wow!

I agree with Lighter.  Your parents were certainly broken. 

But you are here now.  I hope you feel that victory!

Poppy

Ami

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Re: Need Some Help
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2007, 11:52:36 AM »
Dear Amber,
  I guess that the only reason that we "need to go back" to these memories is to ALTER false beliefs that we took on. That is the level that we need to work on, now. Is that what you are saying?
That is a profound point. We need to make the false beliefs( I am worthless) change to real beliefs ( I am worth  something) That is really  a big part of restoring our self(like restoring an antique). The antique is beautiful under all the dirt and grime( old ideas that are not true)
  Is this what you are saying, Amber?                                       Love   Ami



Amber---- It would be wonderful for you to write a book on Twiggy.
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Ami

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Re: Need Some Help
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2007, 12:21:21 PM »
Dear Amber.
  This is hard to explain but I am having a shift where I see from within my body "out" to the world(like I used to as a kid). Prior to this shift,I was trying to pull the outside in(in some way) to try to heal the inside. It could have been therapy, tapes ,books,ideas etc.
  Now I have shifted to seeing seeing outside of myself-------- taking it ,perceiving  it, interpreting it and taking it inside as information to use in HOW to navigate  life.
   It is totally different.
   When I read this,it sounds very unclear. However,I will leave it and see what you think and if it resonates with you at all. Maybe,it does not make sense to you. Just wanted your opinion,if you care to give it                                Love   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Ami

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Re: Need Some Help
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2007, 03:05:56 PM »
 The answers are within  us. The "limiting factor" is our ability to FACE  the 'truth"( about ourselves, life, other people--- everything).
  IF we could wave a magic wand and face the truth immediately and totally we would be healed,I think.
  Since we CAN"T,it is little by little..However,I think that we are making GREAT progress-Don't you?
                                                                   Love   Ami
  The" seeing from the inside" is s/thing that I used to do when I was younger. When I gave my "everything'( heart,soul, eyes ears ability to perceive  ) over to my M,I became an "outside --in  " person.
  I used to be able to look at myself and SEE who and what I was --- bad and good. I used to be able to look at a person and see and "feel" what they were'  feeling and thinking' in most  cases. I could get a "read" on them. It would be like  cop just "knowing something". I was always very intuitive and still am. Maybe I have a unique ability on this.I am not sure. Maybe we all have it.I don't know b/c I only know me.However,I could feel  what a person was feeling and "thinking" most of the time.
 So,I believed  it.
   After I gave myself away, I did not believe  myself anymore.In fact, I "punished myself" for being such a BAD  person to even SEE things that were not "perfect" as my M told me things should be.So, IF I saw s/thing /bad" in s/one ,I thought that I was BAD  for seeing it.
  This( above)  was one HUGE twist that I made.
  The other one was that I could not see MYSELF  honestly anymore .either.
   I thought that I was "bad' for qualities  that I always accepted as"human" before like pettiness, selfishness, jealousy etc. Now,I felt like I had to punish myself for having these "bad' qualities.
 Then,on top of that,I could not face life as it was. I used to be able to see people's general motivations-- greed,kindness, lust, fear pain,,power etc and be able to look at them. Then,I thought that I was 'bad" for seeing them. So,I shut down my ability to see life.
  So, now I am in a fantasy world where everyone is "good"(perfect) like my M told me and I am "bad' like my M told me.
  Then,I am SCREWED b/c I have "lost " my mind( to a  large degree). Then I start to make stupid mistakes b/c I lost my discernment like marrying an abusive man with an abusive  family and on and on. Then,I get sick b/c I cannot deal directly with life and  myself
 As I shine the light of "truth" on ALL my cobwebs,I am starting to heal "backwards"--just the way that I got sick. So,little by little pieces of myself that I threw"overboard" are coming back on "board"
   So, seeing from the inside out is simply seeing without the 'paralysis" that my M cast on me. I,essentially, got frozen in time. I was paralyzed  from seeing and feeling. I was 'stuck " inside a paralyzed mind-- a mind which could NOT think or feel.(without punishing myself).
  Yesterday I saw a HUGE piece  to the puzzle. My M is a 3-5 Yr old. This hurt really badly but it was a huge  insight.
 This insight made a shift in me .I can see from the inside again--- not totally-- but some. I could not see from the inside  before and I didn't even know it. Now that I AM seeing this way again,I realized  that I DID lose it.
  I guess that it was too dangerous to really see how my M was. Maybe I would have gone insane. I think that I lost this ability to see as a defense mechanism.
   I feel very "new",now.
  The other thing coming along with it is anger toward my M. She "knew" that she was abusing us but she wanted "power" over people who could not fight back.
 Well, that is one big part that clicked back in---THANK YOU GOD.
 It is so wonderful to regain ourselves after being so lost for so long. The reason that I keep searching so diligently for myself is that life is very sour without your core.It doesn't matter where you go or what you do, you feel empty and unsettled.
   This big "chunk" was a huge piece. There are more. All I can do is just keep facing the truth as the "surgical instrument " that will cut out the cancer-- my N Mother-----BLEH      Love   Ami


Let me know what makes sense and what is "Greek"-- so to speak                   
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 03:10:28 PM by Ami »
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Ami

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Re: Need Some Help
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2007, 03:37:15 PM »
Dear Amber,
  I wanted to add a few more things. When I was able to see things "from the inside",certain perceptions that I got kept me "alive" emotionally.
  I could see that everyone had insecurity, pain and fear. I could see that everyone had greed, selfishness, pettiness and jealousy.
  So,I put myself '"within" the human race.IOW,I was like everyone else.I was not THE "bad" one. Then, when I lost myself,I became THE bad one and everyone  else was "good"
  Now, I want to get back to where I used to be . I want to see that everyone has these kind of issues( selfishness, greed, fear etc) and I am the same.
  I am not here,yet. When I DO, I will be "almost" healed----                        Love   Ami

Do you understand how big it would be to get here?
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung