Your N will NEVER like/love/respect you

[finding peace]

Beth,

I haven't had a chance to read through all of the posts here.  Just wanted to say that there is so much wisdom in what you posted - I couldn't agree more!

For me, it wasn't until I completely let go of hope that she could be the person I believed she could be that I was able to let go of so many negative emotions.

In my case, I wasn't able to fully understand this until I went NC.  While I was in the midst of the madness, I couldn't see the madness for what it truly was.  I suspected it but any brief time spent with my family, and I would get sucked right back into that black hole before I realized it happened (if that makes any sense -  ).

Peace

[changing]

Oh Goodness!!!

This concept is RIGHT ON! I  let myself feel secure in thinking that the Bagworm was gone and would leave me alone. WRONG! Never mind like/love/respect- Ns won't stop their destructive ways! I wish that they could be quarantined, as their disease devastates the general population when it is introduced into the environment!!! If Bagworm ever acts even remotely normally in relation to me, I'll know another attack is coming (unless I can do a little pre-emptive strike!)

Love (for You) and Dread (for Bagworm),

Changing

[Iphi]

Such a true post gratitude and I know exactly what you mean about assigning feelings - I did it for years.

Last time I talked to my dad I clearly heard him say ambiguous things that could be taken either way, if I leaped to this or that conclusion about them.  It was kind of fascinating in a disillusioning way.  There is really no expectation that is low enough that he could not limbo underneath it.

fp - it makes total sense to me.  I was never able to detach while in the middle of the hurly burly.  Distance is what I needed and lots and lots of it.

[gratitude28]

Iphi,
Thanks for confirming that... I think my M copied other Ms and somehow I was able to read love in that. I had a huge shock and a desperation, almost, when I realized she had no care at all for me - and in fact did what she could to make my life harder.

Changing,
I love that you call him bagworm - it is so appropriate. I am sorry you had to go through this with someone you believe you loved.

Peace,
It took me a while to lose that hope - I spent over thirty years trying to find out what was wrong with me - only to find out I wasn't the problem!!!

Ami,
You are always so kind and everyone's cheerleader here!!! It is so noce of you to listen and reply.

Tayana,
I think you are holding on to the frayed ends of the rope with your mother. It is so strange to believe that the person that gave life to you could want to harm you. I wish you strength to face her and realize all that she is and is capable of doing. Where is your dad in the picture?

((((((((((all))))))))

Love, Beth

[Iphi]

I spent over thirty years trying to find out what was wrong with me - only to find out I wasn't the problem!!!

Can I just say to you --- YES OH MY GOD I KNOW AMEN TO THAT!  Ahem.  But they kept telling us that it was us, so much about us, everything about us, this and that about us - us us us what a problem we are.  I tried to solve the problem that was me for so freaking many years!  At least trying to do that is what finally leads to the realization that we've been played for suckers, eh?

It sounds like tay's dad has been assimilated to the Borg collective. 

[tayana]

Beth, Iphi, my dad is pretty much a silent bystander.  He doesn't say much, doesn't intervene, doesn't really seem to care.

My brother even said that he didn't think my dad really cared whether or  not I called, visited or talked to them.  He didn't seem to care whether he saw my son or not.  My dad had a great opportunity to have a good relationship with M, and he never did anything with him.  He talked about a lot of things, but just like everything, it's all talk.  My parents always talked about doing things, but when it came time to do them, they never did.

I've always thought, at least since I had M, that my dad was very disappointed in me.  That's when he stopped doing special things with me.  We didn't really talk anymore, and so I just thought I'd been written out of his life.  I don't expect much from him, and for a long time, until the last couple of years, he'd found a new pal in the bottom of a can.  I remember being so scared because my parents fought all the time over my dad's drinking when M was a baby that I had a bag packed, just in case things got bad.  I'm not sure if I was afraid of my mom losing it, or my dad losing it.

[Iphi]

I'm so sorry tay.  It's just heartbreakingly disappointing about your dad.    Even if I make a borg joke, please don't think I don't feel it too - it's just my way of getting a little distance (the distance between crying and laughing) by throwing a different spin.

[tayana]

It's okay, Iphi.  I told my T Monday that I'm really angry with my dad for never intervening.  I understood what you were saying and had a little chuckle about the Borg joke.  It's actually very true.

[Poppy Seed]

CB,

processing....processing....processsing......

Genius! Can't wait for the next post.

Poppy

[axa]

"I realise I try and handle the wounds by getting the other to quite wounding me"

Sing it from the roof tops CB.  This is the realisation I have come to MY WOUNDS ARE MY WOUNDS and what I do with them is my responsibility.  Another part of what is being played out inmo is that because of the desperate need(talking about myself) to be connected with another, I have no boundary which says enough is enough, this is not a healthy place for me.  Knowing when to go and when to stay seems like the place where I will I will make my major leap.  Running away at the first hint of difficulty because I am too scared to look at my own wounds/staying until it becomes abusive because I am afraid of being on my own.  These are the poles which I run to.  The middle ground, the boundaries this is what I yearn for. 

Great topic, timely for me.

Axa

[sunblue]

Gratitude:

You mentioned that you have accepted that your NM will never love or respect you and that you can now focus on your relationship with your dad and his relationship with your kids.  I'm in a very similar situation but the difference is my dad is extremely co-dependent.  It is impossible to have a relationship with just him because his whole life is directly tied to my Nmom's. 

I'm wondering how does it work in your situation?  Is your dad co-dependent?  Can you do things with him alone without your Nmom?  Is he able to acknowledge how badly your Nmom has treated you?  Also, do you have siblings you can be close to and how do they deal with the Nparent situation?

It just seems to me that when you have had the bad luck to have one N parent, you don't just lose one, you lose both, because they come as a package--narcissist and co-dependent.  Maybe it's just my own experience.  But if, as you said, it's necessary to accept that your Nparent will never love you, it seems you must also accept that the co-dependent parent will never love you enough to respect you and value you and stand up for you.  Essentially that means your whole family is wiped out.  Add to that siblings who distance themselves from you and the whole parents thing, it is a very, very lonely existence.

So I was just wondering how it is with your dad and if you can salvage any loving parent-child relationship with him?

[finding peace]

CB -

I agree with so much of what you have written here.  You said the following which jumped right out of the screen at me:

What I've been doing is taking a time out.  Over and over. Time out. Time out. Time out.  Don't speak.  Don't react.  What is really going on here.  Am I being treated badly or is this just the every day logistics of life that get in the way of a smooth day?

YES!  I have been doing this as well.  For me, every troubling situation was interpreted as life or death (I think this stems from being so abused as a child).  I did this at an unconscious level.  It was an immediate fight/flight reaction.  Over the past several months I have been doing the same thing - taking a time out and really thinking about the situation and my reaction.  After doing this, it was a real eye-opener.  I started to realize that 99.9% of situations are not life or death, they are the gray area in between.  The best part, as my brain is starting to re-set off of the immediate fight/flight mode - the intensity of the initial emotional reaction is lessening!!! 

This has been a really, really great tool for me.

Love to you,
Peace

[axa]

CB

The all or nothing, very familiar to me.  Where is THAT longed for middle ground.  In some ways I think it is like learning a new language where I have to check have i got enough vocab. to engage in the dialogue.  Where is it written that i have to respond, have to justify, explain.  It stricks me about how verbal I am as if somehow saying words in itself has some sort of power.  I am standing back more also, observing, noting not so much how the other is but how I am.  This is big practise for me.  My focus has always been on the other.  I think I have been walking around for years like a headless chicken - not a pretty sight!  As time went on with XN I began to stay back and observe but in truth I did not know what to do with the information/observations.  Like I would note them and carry on as if nothing had happened or else use them as fuel fo my own anger.  Which I guess in the end propelled me to get out, but I took so much abuse before I found the courage to do that.

I guess it comes round to the same issues for me over and over again: shame and the lack of boundaries.  Having spent my life in a place of co-dep I have been covering the shame with a falseness of reasonableness.  I so need to free myself from that place but want to avoid, avoid, avoid.  I wonder is that is what is beneath all co-dep behaviour.  What about incongruence, that seems to be a theme for me also. 

So much learning so little time.......... good luck with your wedding.

axa

[Overcomer]

Whew!!  I had to go back and reread some of these..................I thought CB was getting married - but now I realize you are catering a wedding...

[gratitude28]

Sun,
Let's start a new topic about the dad situation. I don't have time at this second... but I REALLY want to explore it.
Love, Beth