NMom hates new H

[claris]

Hello - I am new to the board.  Have been in counseling and my therapist has told me she believes my mother is a N.  

Hope to get feedback on latest crisis.  My NMom has a visceral loathing of my new H.  He rubbed her the wrong way during our wedding, which she ruined btw by complaining about everything (esp that i didn't make a public speech about my appreciation for her and all she did for the wedding - which was already limited b/c i was already afraid she'd hijack the whole thing and make it about her as usual - which she managed to do).  Now it is months later and she still has tantrums and rages on the phone, which causes me migraines and upset that takes me days to calm down from every time.  She berates and insults me and my H until I either scream or hang up.  Also cries and tells me she loves me and how can I do this to her.  Uses anything negative she can think of to make me feel: 1) oversensitive 2) disrespectful 3) ungrateful.

I dread seeing her again, but my father begs me to go back there to "renew the love and closeness".  I feel so guilty for abandoning him to her (she can say unspeakable things to all of us) but I am sure that it would be a horrible time for me and I know she just wants to assert her dominance and control and insult me and my H.  Also feel guilty about abandoning her - knowing that N stems fundamentally from a feeling of abandonment.

Anyone have the experience of trying to bring a new spouse into a family where the N goes out of control?  How do people deal with hurting the feelings of other family members when trying to spare oneself by avoiding the N?

Am feeling so sad - I had always believed that somewhere inside, my mother was sorry when she had tantrums and berated us.  After reading more about Nism, I'm not sure anymore.  Seems like she gets satisfaction out of it (which she always seemed to at the time but I couldn't accept as true).

[Anonymous]

I knew a woman whose mother angrily stopped talking to her on her wedding day. Mom totally rejected her and her H until the baby was born a few years later. Then N mother was nice to her again. No explanation ever occurred. My woman friend realized her mother was a narcissist, TERRIBLY ENVIOUS of her happiness, and mom couldn't bear it.  I think that may be the case with your mother.

Here's my advice for what it's worth:

(1) Tell your father that your mother is the one who needs to start behaving if she wants a relationship. You will do what you can, but you won't put up with total disrespect.

(2) Allow your husband to hang up on your mother, tell her off, or whatever he must do for his own boundaries. He shouldn't put up with any abuse.

(3) Allow yourself to hang up on her, or whatever you must do to command some respect and authority. She doesn't get to yell and scream like a two-year-old. There are consequences for that.

(4) Look for a good therapist for you and your H, you will probably need one.

bunny

[Anonymous]

This is bunny again.......one more thing.....

It's normal to feel guilty. Do process it with your therapist. Do NOT act on the guilt by caving in to your father or mother. Your father CHOSE her, you aren't responsible for his marital problems or abandonment. You also aren't responsible for your mom's abandonment. If you let yourself be responsible for that, you will be her hostage for life. I became a hostage and I haven't yet gotten free. Don't do what I did, it's a waste of many years.

bunny

[Tokyojim]

Bunny is SOOOOO right!

If you stand up to someone with NPD, you will be very surprised how their responses to you will change.  You must be prepared to follow through with what you say, and be resolved not to give further explanation.  If you are hesitant or try to "make them understand your feelings," it will not work.  I notice that when people deal with N behaviors, they keep thinking that there is some way that they can explain, that there must be some sentences or logic that will make them understand, but there are none.  Set up a few consequences very clearly and without showing anger, do not get into a long discussion, and be prepared to follow through.  Hang up without further elaboration.  If they call back, directly or through your father, just repeat a single sentence, "I already said that I will not listen to criticism of my husband."  Of course, you will hear, "but I only meant....."  Your answer, "Do you understand what I just said?"  She may reply, "I am your mother and wanted to help you because I love you (blah, blah.)"  Your response: "Click" of the receiver.  Not slammed down, but she just hears a dial tone.....

She will get the message.  THAT will be understood, and only that.

[October]

I knew a woman whose mother angrily stopped talking to her on her wedding day. Mom totally rejected her and her H until the baby was born a few years later. Then N mother was nice to her again. No explanation ever occurred.

bunny

I think I can understand this one.  My Nmum loves babies.  Her youngest grandchild - my nephew - is nearly 4, but she still picks him up and nurses him like a baby, and whenever I look at her, there she is holding the 'baby'.  This makes me want to throw up, because she does it to get the madonna effect from it.  

Yesterday she was holding nephew as usual, while my sister in law drove away from my house (nephew was here to stay the night, and mum rushed round to see him when she found out - she NEVER visits me otherwise).  Anyway, mum is 70, and she did a kind of skipping jump with him, as if she was a kid herself (which of course she is, at one level) so I played the adult to her child and took him from her arms.  She hated it - and me.  Let's be honest here.  She does not like me and never did.  And I put him on the ground, on his own two feet, as an adult would.  Setting him free to be himself.

However, as I did it, I made it sound as if I was concerned for  her.  I said 'you shouldn't jump like that when you are holding a child, you did that with Charlie (my daughter) and hurt your ankle, and it has never been right since.'  She said 'it is fine now' (as if that makes what I said wrong, which it doesn't), and I said 'well, it is when it suits you.'  And of course, Ns can't cope with the truth so she blanked it out.  If looks could kill, I would have dropped dead.  But they don't.  Ha ha!!  

So, if there is a baby around, expect the N, especially granny Ns, to be there, always nursing the baby.  Always with a far away look in their eyes, and as happy as they are capable of being.  As if to say, only the sweet and innocent are capable of understanding me as I deserve.  

Off to find a bucket.  Lol!!!!!!

[October]

Hello - I am new to the board.  Have been in counseling and my therapist has told me she believes my mother is a N.  

Hope to get feedback on latest crisis.  My NMom has a visceral loathing of my new H.  He rubbed her the wrong way during our wedding, which she ruined btw by complaining about everything

I dread seeing her again, but my father begs me to go back there to "renew the love and closeness".  I feel so guilty for abandoning him to her (she can say unspeakable things to all of us) but I am sure that it would be a horrible time for me and I know she just wants to assert her dominance and control and insult me and my H.  Also feel guilty about abandoning her - knowing that N stems fundamentally from a feeling of abandonment.

Some years ago I confronted my mother with her behaviour, and said that I would not put up with it any longer.  I said I was not willing to play happy families any more.  Dad said why not, because we are a happy family.  I said no we are not.  Dad told me to apologise to my mother, and let her say what she likes, until it all eventually blows over, and then everything would be fine.  He said we couldn't go on the way we were.

Well, I declined to apologise, because I would have been apologising for being shouted at and grabbed by the arm and pulled around, and for saying that she had done that, when she wanted to deny that it happened.  Even when it  happened in front of my dad and aunt she wanted to deny it, and make me deny it.  I refused, and still refuse.

It will not make my dad any happier if I do what he wants.  He is a very unhappy man, but he is comfortable in that unhappiness.  It is so familiar to him now that he would be made miserable by any kind of change.  He has spent almost 50 years with this woman, and stood by her, and echoed her N behaviour for so long it is too late for him to know what a healthy relationship is.

I am sorry when I go to visit, because I make them both unhappy.  Mum talks incessantly when I am not in the room, but goes dead quiet when I am (because I challenge any lies I hear and she dare not speak with me there.)  Or, from their point of view, I am snappy and snap at her whenever I get the chance.  Actually, I do not snap, and am usually polite, but they add their own interpretation of the tone.

However, to get to the point of what I am trying to say, you can't rescue your parents.  It may not even be possible to rescue yourself.  The people you can rescue are the next generation, if and when they arrive, by being aware of N behaviours and how they work, and keeping your children away from the Ns if you can't set appropriate boundaries.  But you can't rescue your dad.  He was supposed to look after you, not the other way round, but this is one of the things we are taught; we are there to meet their needs, and to keep them emotionally supported.

The work of therapy is to find these lies and try to destroy them.  You are the one who needs love and support in the early stages of your marriage.  Your mum is having a tantrum and has thrown her toys out of the pram, and your dad wants you to help put them back in again.

What they are both asking for is for you to show that you love them more than you love your new husband.  If they can win this battle, they may well have you for life.  Stay strong, and let them go.

Cathy

[Michelle]

Welcome claris to the board (do you pronounce that "claree"? - just wondering b/c there's a neat character in a movie I love with your name pronounced that way   )

Anyhoo - I feel for you.  My Nmother hates my husband too.  Her favorite thing to say about him is "I hate that he took you away from us".  He is in the military and guess what mom????  THEY MOVE ALOT.  You have gotten some great advice from others already....my advice to you is DO NOT LET YOUR MOTHER DISRESPECT YOUR FAMILY.  Draw the line and quickly.  It sends a very strong unspoken message to your new husband when you do not prove to him that you respect him and cherish him by standing up against WRONGDOING where he is concerned.  And what I am finding out lately - you have to do the same thing with your children.  Protect your family from her at ANY cost, Claris.

which she ruined btw by complaining about everything (esp that i didn't make a public speech about my appreciation for her and all she did for the wedding - which was already limited b/c i was already afraid she'd hijack the whole thing and make it about her as usual - which she managed to do);  she still has tantrums and rages on the phone,
She berates and insults me and my H until I either scream or hang up. Also cries and tells me she loves me and how can I do this to her. Uses anything negative she can think of to make me feel: 1) oversensitive 2) disrespectful 3) ungrateful.,

Gross Gross Gross  Selfish, mean, nasty, inconsiderate, PURPOSEFULLY DAMAGING.  That describes my mom, but it describes yours too.  It's hard and painful and terribly sad.  I am in the process of it myself.......stop the damage before it leaks down into your family.  Be strong and stand up for yourself.  Stop letting her hurt you.

my father begs me to go back there to "renew the love and closeness". I feel so guilty for abandoning him to her Also feel guilty about abandoning her

I am sure you would not "abandon" them if they didn't "deserve" to be abandoned.  I don't like that word in this situation.  Instead of saying that you are "abandoning" them, I would word it like this:   YOU ARE PROTECTING YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY AT WHATEVER COST IT TAKES.

Like I said before, I feel for you Claris.  It is so hard to realize that your own mother is purposefully hurtful to you and actually gets some sort of happiness out of it.  SICK SICK SICK.  It is time for you to see your worth and protect yourself and your family.  I'm glad you are here.  I know personally that I couldn't travel this road alone.  

take care of yourself,
Michelle

[Karin]

Hi Claris,
Welcome to the board.
I think Michelle has hit the nail on the head. Your new husband is the one that you have to think of first, above your mother. Don't let your mother's tantrums run the risk of him losing his respect for you.
 
I don't think my NMIL hated me as such, but she let me know over the years that I wasn't looking after her son properly and Oh my God, I didn't teach our daughters how to clean so "how on earth are they ever going to be able to look after their husbands?" My exNH did support me when she did this sort of thing (eventhough he had other issues going on with her). It was important to me for him to show that she didn't have the upper hand as far as our relationship was concerned.

You'll be surprised how quickly she will leave you alone if you ignore her ridiculous behaviour. You don't need to give her explanations of how you feel, she wouldn't be listening anyway. She is too self-absorbed and you need to not let her into your marriage in any way.

Take care,
Karin

[Anonymous]

thanks so much to everyone who replied.  i appreciate the advice and the anecdotes.  so many things resonated with my situation.

my mother also didn't speak to me on my wedding day (except to try to get me to drop some guests off in the wedding car my h and i had to take us back to our hotel after the wedding), and things have been horrible since.  she has pitted herself against my H and basically wants me to show her more loyalty and respect than my H.  i know i can't do that.  my dad also thinks she envies my happiness (like the woman that bunny mentioned).  

i am also worried about the time when kids come.  my mother looooves babies - she also gets a weird glow around them and believes that she has a special way with them.  she used to tell me that she'd like to take care of my kids while i was at work (god forbid!)  she really sees herself as a Paragon of Motherhood - which i know to be absurd but i think is an embedded narcissistic conceit of hers.  one of the worst things i can do is to imply in any way that my childhood was anything but perfect.  

i understand what cathy and bunny said about my not being responsible for them, but i still do feel so bad for my dad.  i think he has convinced himself in some way that she's actually a beautiful person inside who just messes up sometimes, and that she actually feels sorry for what she does, even if she'd rather die than apologize.  at the same time, he describes her behavior as "cruel", "violent", "aggressive", "unstable" and any number of other similar adjectives.  i have suggested he seek some counseling, but i don't think he'd go.  he's the only one in the family left who puts up with her abuse (well, me too to a certain extent, but i'm working on it) so i think he must bear the brunt of it.  is he really a lost cause or can is there something i can do?

has anyone taken in an N elderly parent to live with them?  i know my mom expects this someday.

claris

[Anonymous]

i am also worried about the time when kids come.  my mother looooves babies - she also gets a weird glow around them and believes that she has a special way with them.  she used to tell me that she'd like to take care of my kids while i was at work (god forbid!)

When you're the parent, you'll have control over who cares for your children. If you don't want it to be her, then it won't be.
 

is he really a lost cause or can is there something i can do?

You can keep encouraging him to seek therapy. Otherwise it's out of your power. We can't rescue adults from their bad marriages (sad but true).

has anyone taken in an N elderly parent to live with them?  i know my mom expects this someday.

My MIL expected it also. She did NOT come to live with us, because it would have led to divorce! We preferred to stay married.  

bunny

[Anonymous]

Hi Claris -- You've got lots of good advice about supporting your H and refusing to tolerate your mother's bad behavior. Just wanted to say about your dad -- my stepmother was a difficult person who could be quite nasty and would sometimes make fun of my dad in front of us. I was amazed that he tolerated it, but I came to the conclusion that he liked what he got from the relationship -- she was a good cook, kept a nice house, organized his social life, and kept him from being lonely. For him the benefits were worth the costs.

You never know what trade-offs people make in relationships. You have tried to help your dad, suggested counselling, etc. You can keep suggesting now and then, but that's really all you can do. He has to make the decision to act.

Regarding having an N parent live with you, my N mother has said loudly that she will "never" go into a nursing home. So far my stepfather is healthy and they have enough money to hire help if they need it, and I'm glad because I could never live with her, and don't intend to.

Morgan

[Anonymous]

Hello all,

When I read this thread I couldn't help but think about all the Ns that I have observed turning away people they didn't handpick to be in their "club".  Like an organ rejection.  

One N I know didn't like her friend's child, or another friend's husband, etc. Just wants the one approved-of individual.  Can't take the whole package or even tolerate it because they know they can only fool one person at a time...she also knows that those other people take the friend "away" from her.  And she should come first.  Gag.

Just an observation.  Seeker.