H keeps contacting me and is now demanding to see kids!

[DivineSunshine]

crap!  I stopped contacting my H who I have a PO against for me and kids.  He has tried all the guilt and pity he can come up with which I have ignored and tonight he is demanding to see the kids tomorrow!  Says his council says it is ok---interesting he would wait until Friday nite to pull this.  He has not seen them since I fled on the 10th.  We are scheduled to have a hearing on the 30th the change this from a temporary to a more permanent 60 day thing or something.

First of all, the kids have not asked to see him.  Not one in six of them.  I am willing to consider maybe they don't wish to upset me by saying so....but they are my first consideration in this.  He only wants what he wants.  They are just getting their feet back under them and a visit with him (and his N mother) will be mentally & emotionally draining on them.

And....as mentioned with the counselling issue earlier in the week....is he trying so hard now so he can say that obviosly I must not be that worried about them or I would not have allowed them to see him for the day.

Apparently he is losing his temper again and since the rest of his emtionally blackmailing ploys have not worked on me, (obligation and guilt)  he is using fear and domination and sneakiness now.  I am not surprised but a little freaked for a sec cause I don't know my rights.

This would be solo hard on the kids---he does not care.

What a jerk!  Help!  Need some assistance reasoning this out so I can make a clear-minded decision! 

Thanks you dolls!  You have been lifesavers!

Sunny   

[Ami]

Dear Sunny,
  I am here. I am so sorry . for all that you have been through. I have nothing 'practical " to add. I know that other people will.I will keep you in my prayers . You have been so, very brave, Sunny.                    Love  Ami

(((((((((((((Sunny))))))))))))))))))))))))

[mudpuppy]

Hi DS,

Since you have a PO for yourself and the kids it hardly seems like you are obliged to let him anywhere near any of you. Does the PO say he can see them (which I would find quite surprising)? If not he has no right to.
Give in one little inch and he will try to run over you. The jerk can wait four more days to find out what the judge says.

mud

[isittoolate]

Hi DS
I worked and PO was a Purchase Order, but I expect it is something like Preventative Order?

I don't know about this but wonder if you asked the children what they would say, wonder if you can set the place, like a park, away from N mother, and you supervise the visit!

If he has no rights to see them, then he is just harassing you and you can be sure when he does see the kids he will say you refused him--the kids ought to know he asked---??????? is that right? so it doesn't appear secretive?

You are saying he just saw then earlier in the week?

He's using you!! 

This is guesswork on my part!

L:ove
Izzy

[changing]

Dear Divine-

You have been through so very much, and I admire your almost impossible strength and courage.  (((Divine))) Very few could do what you have done while caring for 6 children. Please make an emergency appeal to your attorney, or to the Family Court for clarification of the Order. Do not permit visits that are not court ordered or required. Also though, be sure to conform to all of the orders of the court that include specific required conduct from you.Do not have any direct communication with your husband that is not required by the court , and document everything in your log. In this way your children will be better protected and you will not make any great errors in judgement and strategy that you may regret later. Please have your attorney or the Family Court explain your rights and responsibilities in detail right away!!!!

If the law requires that your husband is given access to the children (this should be in the TPO if that is true but check with your attorney to be sure - it is crucial that you get a legal determination on what the court requires you to do and not do) then make certain that any supervision that is also required is indeed in place before allowing the supervised visit to take place. If you are not required to permit visitation, then do not provide access to the children or yourself,and make certain that your lawyer provides a buffer so that you do not have to get any more calls, letters, or surprise visits. Let your lawyer and police know right away if your husband attempts to violate the order.Your lawyer will then be the one your husband and his lawyer must go through- this will cut down considerably on the monkey business!!!My lawyer has done that, and my violent and vile soon to be ex cannot intimidate me any more!

Please be careful and safe. Your dear children deserve nothing less. You must put yourself and your children as the highest priority now. Just make sure that you follow thw law and get your lawyer and/or the court involved in anything to do with your husband.

God Bless You

Be strong and get legal help and clarification with this right away Divine!!!

Love to you and your family,

Changing

[Hopalong]

Dear Sunny,
What HE demands and what HE says his council says is "okay" are meaningless.

HE is not in charge now. The court is.

Please take every word of Change's advice right now this sec, and I believe
Changing's advice will keep you safe.

Sending strength, and love,
Hops

[DivineSunshine]

#%*&@@%!!!!!

I called my attorney first thing this afternoon after receiving his email, he was with clients and said he would call back as soon as he could, so I was waiting and walking around the house because I was getting really bad vibes and I looked out the window and he is driving up the road!!!!

I rounded up the kids and sent them downstairs and my stomach was turning and I was shaking and I thought he went away, but he pulled to the side of the house and came and rang the doorbell!!!!

He is there under the pretense of bringing the kids cat back!!  So I say let her in and he steps in and starts calling the kids names.  I am trying to NOT attack him and keep calm and  I said "what are you trying to do here?---I need to see if the kids want to see you! "   He says of course they want to see me and continues to call their names-------I decide to just get it over with and go downstairs and get them and tell them just be calm and go up and say hello.  I did NOT wish to have a scene in front of them.  (the story of our marriage--and he knows it)  So I let him visit and he is being so phony and hugging them (mauling them practically) and they are just confused and some walk away as soon as they can and go out to see their friends who came to the door and one who gets really nervous when he is around gets a nervous stomach and has to visit the restroom.  She has not had to do that since we left him 2.5 weeks ago! 

I just stay there in the room they are in and wait for my attorney to call.  He finally does and says, I could have him arrested if I want (I want, I want, but know he will twist it with everyone to say I am being unreasonable), but in the interest of the kids and seeing how the judge will think less of him for pulling this, just to sit tight and let him visit and get them some dinner, but he has to be here at the home with them and I am not to leave.  Don't worry I was not going to go anywhere. 

So our stupid  house is huge and he has his stupid home theater (his "baby") and so he rented the kids a movie, got some cheap pizza and I am staying way across the house upstairs in my room, not sulking, just letting them visit and him deal with his own children.  I have always covered for him with them and he has not had to deal with how it really is to be around 6 normal wound-up kids.  And they are especially wound up now since they are nervous and excited at the same time.  He can handle it, and then go.  He will be trying to be a good father and nice guy now so I won't have to worry about him raging tonight at least.  He will inevitably think that they have just gotten to be brats since I had care of them, but they are just being normal kids, something he never allowed before.  They are really good kids actually.  I have just been allowing them to be kids the last two weeks.  They have really been blossoming, IMO.  What a stunt.  He is so selfish---and he does not get it!

He will regret this.  I don't know what he is pulling besides just thinking he can control the world and me, but he will regret this.  Legally, I know it. 

He told the kids that he was crying so much he had to go to the doctor!  He will be busy F-ing (sorry) with their minds all night and for ever more.  I have always protected them from it as much as possible.  Now he will be even worse.  He is a master manipulator and kids are just like sitting ducks for that. 

BIG FRICKIN IDIOT!!  I am here in a terrible position, which only validates my decision to divorce him, and I don't know the best thing to do.  But I will follow attorney advice for now and hope all goes well.  Thank G I went with a friend of family attorney who works late or I would still be wondering where I stand legally.  He said he will take care of things on Monday.  It should be an interesting weekend trying to keep things in order with my H and put the kids back together emotionally again.  They were just getting back on their feet.

He brought 3 of them cell phones he agreed to get them at court last week and so they are excited about that anyway.  I just can't even believe this---but then I can.   Such an A$$!!!

I think I am done for now.......

Sunny

[changing]

Hello Sunny-

Sorry that you and your children had to suffer through that horrible gut wrenching intrusion. I have had my soon to be ex show up and I was afraid for my pets and myself- my lawyer has shut all of that down, no more phone calls, letters, showing up. It is really great!!! I hope your husband has gone from the house by now. Document what happened in your log, that you called your attorney for help, and were afraid to boot your husband out, etc for the children's sake. Your husband may try to have the TPO lifted by showing that you let him stay in the house, and may try to show that your concerns lack credibility because you had dinner, a movie, etc together in your home and  did not call the police, so help your attorney  be ready to explain and get a permanent order in place. I'm glad you got your cat back, though.

I am concerned for your personal safety.Did you get your locks changed, Sunny? Do you have a fence? If you can get a security camera and hook it up to a VCR it may come in handy as a deterrent or as proof later. You might have a friend in the neighborhood call periodically and use code words- if you were to answer in a certain way, she would know to call the police. Most important, follow the legal steps outlined in the TPO, and have everything go through your lawyer and the court. Make sure that you folllow the rules which pertain to your conduct and responsibilities as well.

I know that this is a very hard time for you, but you have come so very far and can make it all the way- just stay strong and committed and you will get rid of these problems soon.

Love and Strength,

Changing

Read and reread your TPO so that you are familiar with all that it says, and post the phone number for the police emergency line and lawyer near your phone. Please be safe and I pray that that violator stays away and out of your house!

[axa]

Listen to Mud

axa

[lighter]

Ummm... I can't beleive he got his way.  In the house.  A night with the children.....



I can just hear his attorney now....

"The WIFE says she's living in fear of her life but she's allowing him in the house during the TPO.... she's not in fear bc she should have phoned the police when he showed up.  She knew he was coming.... here are the e mails in evidence your honor.  She had every opportunity to phone the police IF SHE REALLY BELEIVED SHE WAS IN DANGER and obviously...."

Puke.

All it takes to roll us over is holding our children's emotional well being hostage.

They dont' give a quack about it so they hold all the cards.

The one time the police came to our house.... I had someone watch my children and keep them safe.  H went and got the 4yo and brought her OVER TO WHERE THE POLICE WERE COMING.  When they arrived.... she wanted me.

The fact that she was on my hip had the cops admonishing me for damaging my child, bc I was focused on handling the business at hand.  The cops didn't listen.  Nothing happened.  He got away with setting me up over and over again.

How can you stop letting yours set you up?

We can see what it is they're doing.  

What will stop the cycle?

You have the damned cat now?  The cell phones?  What excuse will he have for shitting on the TPO next time, if it still holds any water at all?

Pushing you off your argument.... making you look like you're exagerating..... making you look hysterical.... that's his game.

He'll become the dearest of weekend dad's during all this... so you don't have to worry so much about visits right now.  

You have to worry about all the system taking you seriouse and not allowing him to keep pushing you off the TPO.

You have to worry about safe visitation with the children, after the court deals over and he isn't trying to impress anyone any more.

You have to worry about staying safe, consistent and reasonable.  

His little visit to the house has upset the conistent applecart a bit but document it, make it clear that he was violating the restraining order against your wishes and I hope his e mails give the Judge an idea for the disregard your husband has for authority.

You should have phoned the police. 

He'll keep pushing and pushing until you stop him pushing.  The kids may have to see a little more trouble before it gets better.

Follow that TPO to the letter.... or they won't believe you care about it.  Next think you know... he'll be telling stories about what he does with you when he's near you

Don't let him near.


 

[changing]

Dear Sunny-

Please reread Mud and Lighter's posts. And talk with your lawyer ASAP, asking for help in keeping your husband away when he barges into the home without your consent. I am concerned about the cell phones, because this may also become documentation that the children have routinely been in telephonic contact with him, despite the TPO (I don't know if your order forbids his contacting all of you, but if it does, he may be trying to keep a permanent order from being imposed).

I know that it is very hard right now, but you have the force of the court with you at this point. This is important. My husband had left the house, and I had gotten peronal items together for him. Instead of picking them up, he brought the police on some false pretext (my lawyer thinks that he may have filed some sort of false incident report) and it was a harrowing experience- I certainly wouldn't want children to see such a thing. Please don't get set up by your husband and possibly put in a position where you are made to look bad, and the children are taken. Please be careful, and enforce your TPO at all times.

Love,

Changing

[mudpuppy]

Hi again DS,

First, sit down and take a big breath.
Second, remember these things are always a long process where one episode is not the whole enchilada.
Third, he should not be able to use your letting him stay as evidence the PO is unnecessary because you were only following your attorney's advice and it was a forced entry right before the hearing in an obvious attempt to influence the judge.
Fourth, reread and memorize if you have to the PO so you know pecisely what your rights are.
Fifth, it's been my experience that when I am worried my actions will be used to make me look unreasonable, that's usually precisely the thing I should do. I believe I would have had him spend the night in the pokey. However, it is just as valuable to be able to go into court and demonstrate how reasonable you have been and how manipulative and provocative he has been.
Last, absent a court order, don't let him know the kid's phone numbers or he will be manipulating them until he's too hoarse to talk.

If your lawyer is sharp and the judge isn't a boob, about all he did was make himself look like the ass he is.
If it happens again however I would absolutely call the cops.

mud

[changing]

Sunny-

Please listen to Mud!!!!

Love,

Changing

[Leah]

((( Sunny )))

Please listen to Mud

Wise words of counsel there.

Love & Hugs,

Leah

[DivineSunshine]

Update:  (this board has become my "log" so excuse detail here, I need to put it somewhere for my accounting of events.)

The a$$ showed up again this morning since when he came last night he brought the dog and let it go run wild in the neighborhood and could "not find it"  when he left, which is not allowed by animal control  and he knows it makes me angry since I always have to face the angry neighbors when he has done it in the past.    And to bring the ladder "to fix" a beeping smoke alarm  that was low on batteries and attached to a 15 foot ceiling.  I have no ladders since he took them and didn't ask for help until he knocked while "getting the dog" to see if I would let him fix it.  This was agreed in court that he would have access to do repairs since the home is for sale.  With prior arrangements so we can leave!

I tried to be gracious since we also agreed to him having reasonable visits with the kids and he was begging last night when he left to see them today so i emailed him as stipulated to be our communication, and told him I would make the kids avail from 1pm to 5pm today.  But they had to be back by 5.  While he was here he said he had "to work" which he almost never has done on a Saturday so he could not see the kids today, but he wants to see them tomorrow at noon.  I tell him I had plans for tomorrow which I did and he starts to get that angry intimidating look and says "who with?" and I say the name of the woman who was coming over to visit with us  (a mutual friend he has not been able to control) and he says "I think that I (their father) has precedence over HER to see MY kids--don't I?"  He is getting very scary at this point and I need him out and don't want a fight so I just say ok I will cancel with her and you can pick the kids up tomorrow at noon.   Just to get him out---- the kids were getting nervous since he was starting in on his bullying again.  I didn want to fight in front of them and he knows it. 

He also THINKS I can't contact my attorney on the weekend so he can do what he wants---BUT----I sent an email telling attorney what happened right away this morning and attorney says tell him ----"deal is OFF!"  He has been given fair warning  that if he tries to come here again, I WILL call the police.  What we agreed upon as far as kids and house "repairs" is out of control and not working and making me and the kids uncomfortable.    That I tried to be gracious and let him visit with the kids and did not call police in an effort to not upset the children emotionally and that he should consult with his attorney before attempting to come to house again.  That is the gist of it.  Very legal.  I also had his "friends" (He thinks) call and back me up telling me he's up to "NO GOOD" and wants to "take me down" and get the kids to his mothers house tomorrow to start a gang "mind manipulation" on his  children to turn them against and get info and guilt them and whatnot.  All in the name of "love" of course.  And they say ---as everyone does---CALL the cops on him.  He is rotten!  I know, I know, I know!  Everybody needs to kick me in the butt here and I deserve that, I need it because I am still trying to be "nice" for some reason and I need to stop it.  I had a weak moment and tried to do something nice, but was in a position where I felt I had to keep peace or danger was imminent.  Emminent?  Anyway....

I sent the email to him right away about 30 minutes ago and now I have parked myself in the room in the front of the house working on laptop where I can see the street in case he hauls over here and freaks out.  Everyone knows he is capable. I am scared, but have resolve to do what I have to do.  It is going to be a long weekend.  My kids are out of school until Wednesday and we are prisoner again in this house.  We had two weeks of freedom, kinda.  I will leave if I have to, but it may be a shelter again.  I hope not.  I have the papers I need now. 

 I have 3 phones with me and all the doors locked and garage disabled.  It is almost nightfall and I feel vulnerable, but I will watch all night if I have to.  I don't have a choice.  I realize this is when it gets dangerous again when he does not get his way.  ---and that is why I LET him have his way last night.  And why I left two weeks ago and had to hide in a shelter from him.  I have met the judge and I am pretty sure she "gets it" so that helps, but I know I have to do my part.    What a PIGGY! 
 (Not sure who's line that is, but thanks, I like it!)

I have also told the kids I might have to call the cops on him and they are fine.  They already told me they didn't want to go to his mothers with "his family" tomorrow and be interrogated and "love bombed" and guilted so I am standing my ground for them as I always have tried.  He just didn't give me a chance to get their opinion yesterday before he showed so I thought they might like to visit.    That is what I get for thinking.....Crap, what a  #$%^$#&%!!!   

Anyway, thanks you guys, I am listening, but get caught in trying to "do the right, sweet thing" instead of the most intelligent, safe thing.  It is my nature and he is beating me over the head with it.  I won't let it happen again.  Guard back up.  Thanks ALL!  YOu are helping me stand and fight like I should!


XOXOXO


Sunny