Author Topic: I guess That's It  (Read 4448 times)

Anonymous

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I guess That's It
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2004, 12:10:19 PM »
Hi Surf,

I've also read Susan Forward and spiritual books like Thich Nat Hahn (sp?). They are an excellent foundation to work on ourselves for grounding and compassion. However, I never truly understood how to deal with my N mother (and other Ns and borderlines) until I studied psychology; specifically a theory called object relations. Here are some things that I will pass on to you.

1) Confronting a personality-disordered person with their behavior rarely leads to the hoped-for results. The PD person has serious cognitive (thought) processing problems fused with their emotional disorders. That means they aren't thinking logically, rationally, and don't draw the conclusions you'd like them to draw. A confrontation traumatizes, shames, and enrages them. So it doesn't work as a strategy to receive remorse or compassion from them. It causes them to regress instantly and viciously retaliate. They aren't able to make the links you want them to make (i.e., their abuse was wrong and had negative consequences, so they should repair the damage).

2) A personality-disordered person regresses at the drop of a hat. They won't announce that this is happening. You'll see it in their immature, irrational behavior. Your mother may turn very quickly into an angry 2 year old. This is why the confronting rarely works. They retreat into regressed states which are quite primitive. Not much can be done with a person in this state.


3) This is incredibly difficult to accept, because we want more than anything for the PD parent to recognize that their behavior was abusive; show remorse; make attempts to repair the damage. They usually are unable to do any of these things to the extent needed.


4) Telling her you love her every day is a far better strategy, but still won't lead to hoped-for results. It's good if you're okay with a teeny bit of improvement, but it won't lead to major improvement. The PD person's problems are simply too severe to be repaired this easily or simply. They also require intensive psychotherapy and medication (neither avenue is likely).

5) Understand that this is about her internal world of persecution, shame, trauma, self-hate, feeling like a helpless child, enraged, etc. etc. It's not about you, although you're the victim of all her nasty projections. We each have to decide how many projections we'll tolerate containing on behalf of an N parent. I'm still struggling with that one.

6) I can't remember if you're in therapy but it would really help for support and reality checks on her impairment.

bunny

Anonymous

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I guess That's It
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2004, 12:41:15 PM »
Bunny, this is great.  Thanks.  Yes, the saying "I Love You" did help a bit but obviously as you say it didn't  lead to any major changes on her part.  I'm glad I tried it in order for me to see that I clearly exhausted every possible avenue and found that I was not to blame and was not the bad child she had been trying to get me to believe I was.  That was freeing for me.

The reference to the childish primitive defenses is very clarifying and helps me to depersonalize her behavior.  What an impossible and heartbreaking thing to have to deal with !!@@!!

Thanks again.  I was hoping Bunny you wold have some more follow up.  Very helpful.  Aloha   Surf

mighty mouse

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I guess That's It
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2004, 01:37:57 PM »
Hi Bunny,

Thanks for your excellent post. This one is a real gem.

I tried for years to take the high road with NMom. But it was choking me to death emotionally. She was so toxic I always felt "less than" every time I even talked with her on the phone. So I now use subtle tactics to make sure she backs off of me and it's working to the extent that we really  have hardly any contact and I like that. At least for now.

I used to tell her I loved her, but at some point in time it seemed like a lie and I felt kind of diminished for saying it.

Is there some point in time when one is further along in the process that they can speak to these Ns and really just not let it get to them or feel less than or actually feel sorry for them and be "above it all"?

Surf,

I thought I was going to lose some sibs for my stand, but fortunately the only sibling my Mom confides in is my NPD sis and we are estranged anyway. She obviously doesn't want the others to know about our falling out because at some level she knows they are on to her at least a bit. And she wants to look good to them. With the NPD sis, it doesn't matter because she(NPD sister) rages against me anyway. It would be interesting to be a dispassionate fly on that wall when they are talking about me..!

It seems that your siblings don't have the awareness that you do. Or maybe they are a bit like your Mom. I would ask myself if they are really a big loss. My Mom had perpetuated the "close family" myth for so long, it took me a while to figure out that we really weren't close at all (although I do like one or two pretty well even though we don't see each other much). I don't know why I didn't realize this earlier.

Do you live near the beach? I find water so comforting.

MM

Anonymous

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I guess That's It
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2004, 03:08:06 PM »
Quote from: mighty mouse
I used to tell her I loved her, but at some point in time it seemed like a lie and I felt kind of diminished for saying it.


I don't use this strategy for this reason. I can't do it! I approximate it by being nice to her instead of telling her what I really think.


Quote from: mighty mouse
Is there some point in time when one is further along in the process that they can speak to these Ns and really just not let it get to them or feel less than or actually feel sorry for them and be "above it all"?


I think we can diminish our strongest reaction to the N mother, but it's never going to be a matter of indifference or rising totally above it. I'm always going to see a therapist in order to deal with the relationship.

bunny

Anonymous

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I guess That's It
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2004, 06:15:31 PM »
Hi MM;
 
Yes, I live three blocks from the beach and am fortunate enough to have a beautiful state park nearby  where I walk through the Ironwood grove to the beach as a nightly ritual.  I live on the Oahu's North Shore and am very fortunate to have the lifestyle and country living to enjoy.  Surfing too!!!  Its really helped to offset the sadness and feeling of having had  a fractured life growing up; and its  no coincidence that its the furthest I can get from my family of origin and still be in the United States.  Many of my friends and the people I meet who live here are rebels and runaways like me.  We often understand each other pretty well.  Have a good one.  :)

Surf

Anonymous

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I guess That's It
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2004, 08:34:37 PM »
Hi Surf -- Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions about your past relationship with your mother. After reading it, I can only say that you really have done everything possible as far as tolerating her behavior, telling her that you love her, and trying to work gently toward a real relationship with her. You have nothing to regret in the way you have dealt with her, and it's very sad that she cannot respond.

I also admire you for having confronted her over the abuse. Did the fact that she somewhat admitted it, even in an indirect way, validate your feelings -- i.e. make you feel less voiceless?

I can't help thinking that if I had received even the least bit of acknowledgement from my N mother that there was something wrong with her behavior, I would be less likely to feel guilty and doubt my feelings about her.

Many really excellent comments on this thread. Thanks everyone!

Morgan

Anonymous

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I guess That's It
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2004, 11:17:39 PM »
Morgan,

Thank you so much for your supportive feedback.  I really appreciate it and everyone's feedback on this thread.   I feel like I have a clearer understanding of the situation as a result of everyone's input and I understand my mom and her outrageous behavior better!  I feel good in realizing I don't have to take her so seriously; she IS acting out like a two year old.  I'm just around her so infrequently that I have just now really  come to understand that, and that's worth loads.

Morgan:  when she finally admitted to the abuse and to having treated me wrongly by accusing me of being a liar and being viscious I did feel better. (at the time of her denial she swore on a bible no less that she and my father had never laid a hand on us.  I found that really interesting since she brought me up very strictly never to lie).  By the next morning her defenses had SHOT up and she started the day requesting to explain her position further; she never got a chance which is good because there was nothing to defend; I'm sure she might have just concocted more lies.  She left Hawaii several days later angry at me and held onto that for several more years; angry that  she had let me penetrate her barrier and see inside.  Her anger was only diminished when my younger sister who lives near her and has had to bear the brunt of this c--p for years developed small cell lung cancer.  This diverted my mother and she was very afraid she would lose the caretaking my poor  sister had been giving, bless her heart.  She survived thankfully.

Thanks again everyone, you made my weekend!  and beyond.  Aloha  Surf

 :D