Author Topic: N vs. Culture  (Read 6527 times)

write

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N vs. Culture
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2004, 11:23:31 AM »
I deleted the original post I wrote about narcissism and culture because I realised

1. I was over-generalising ( I hadn't met more than a handful of people from the cultures I was writing about )

and 2. when I read it back it was offensive and could easily have been (mis)interpreted as racism.

It's not that I am afraid to speak my mind, but particularly here- no. People come here to feel understood and accepted and I would hate to take that from anyone by making assumptions or being tactless.

I think it's fine for people to talk about their own cultural experiences and I can take something from that.

October

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Re: N vs. Culture
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2004, 04:44:24 AM »
Do you have a garden?  Have you ever noticed that the weeds seem to grow strongest right next to a plant??  This is because they hide behind the plant while they are small, and you can't see that they are there, until all of a sudden, there is this foot high weed staring you in the face.

I have also tried the cultural approach to justifying my parents' behaviour, because they are from a background, with its own strong value systems which would be similar in many ways to those of a collective (ie non individualistic) society such as in China.  They both come from small coal mining villages, where the tradition is mutual support, very highly defined sexual roles and a very conservative approach to change.

If you then plant an N family in this kind of culture, and compare it with the culture outside the family system, there are differences, but like with the weed, it can look the same as the plant next to it for a long time.
Collective cultures focus on benefitting everyone, which is a good theory.  The downside is loss of individuality and privacy.  The upside is that when you need help and support, there it is.  Everyone supports those who are weakest.

If you look at N behaviours, they are very happy with the loss of individuality bit, and buy that one very happily - for you.  But you find that where the help and support bit comes in, is where they leave by the back door as rapidly as they can.   :lol:

The N version of collective culture works as long as you are the supplier and they are the ones in need.  If you ever try to change that, you will find that they can't do it.  However much you need love and support, you will still owe them, and they will still be looking for you to supply their needs.

Look at your Chinese friends, and your extended family.  Do their mothers behave as yours does??  That may help you to see that this is not a cultural problem.

Cathy

(Quote edited, because original post changed.  Didn't want to leave bits that you preferred omitted.  xx)

October

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N vs. Culture
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2004, 06:46:46 AM »
Quote from: Portia
Cathy, thank you for posting, your posts are great


Thanks.   :oops:

Not as confident as I sometimes sound.

(((((Hugs)))))

Cathy

Portia

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N vs. Culture
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2004, 07:03:12 AM »
(((((((((Cathy)))))))))
You sound very knowledgeable. I keep learning. And your insights are helping. And I can hear you now :D I wonder why you were quiet before? Perhaps there wasn't enough space, room, quietness on the board before. I like it now. I hope you do too. It is great to hear you. Now I hope you don't feel embarrassed, because I mean it and you're okay. Now that's enough from me, I'm embarrassing myself!  :roll: Pull myself together. I'm genuinely happy to hear you, that's all. :D P

Edit in P.S. Claris, sorry for hijacking your thread like this, I hope you'll come back to us...
Cathy, I’ve been reading old posts and you sound good now. Your post about shame was fantastic. (Yeah, what do I know? I know about some stuff but I didn’t know about that!) Did you attend the winter-time event? I know that’s a prying question so I’m sorry if I’m out of order here. But I wondered and if you want to talk about it or not. And now I know what Rob meant when he mentioned witchcraft recently. Yeah - you should put ‘evil old witch’ on her tombstone, but you’ll have to bury her in unconsecrated ground!

On the shame theme, that’s what that woman did to our group on page 1 here, shamed us all with her superior, very PC attitude. She was just using PCness to be superior and as with most things, intention is everything I guess. Oh and I hope I didn’t upset anyone here by using that phrase because I didn’t intend to...  :roll: P

Anonymous

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Re: N vs. Culture
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2004, 06:49:25 PM »
Quote from: October


Look at your Chinese friends, and your extended family.  Do their mothers behave as yours does??  That may help you to see that this is not a cultural problem.


Agreed Cathy. My neighbours are not N, my friends parents are not N and I have met and worked with people from more deprived background, even with people who can't read or write, and imo they are not N

But my Dad is !

What gets me is how much cultural protection he gets ! That has to go ! I have been to see doctors in India for depression issues.. they never bothered to help me. I was very pressurised when I was in my teens.. I had compulsive behaviour which was getting awkward. My parents even though they knew it very well supressed it and kept it under cover. My teachers knew it in school, how did they help ? My relatives knew my Dad is abusive and my mom is a walking zombie, did any one of them come out to help me ?

Why ? It is culturally wrong ! and I will hate it cos I am a victim of the system. Oh yes people do 'care' for others and it  looks like 'collective responsibility' in such cultures but that is not the case. 'Care' is to make me fit in and deny all forms of 'deviation' and my anxieties, my tense relationship with my parents etc were ' cultural deviation' and hence it was me who was asked to compromise myself for the sake of society.

Things are changing though and I am doing something constructive for a change, hopefully more and more people will  be doing the same ( but in their own known ways and beliefs ).. wish they would come out more and break that abusive jinx !

spirit

write

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N vs. Culture
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2004, 03:57:54 AM »
They both come from small coal mining villages, where the tradition is mutual support, very highly defined sexual roles and a very conservative approach to change.


I have a Canadian friend and we have shared experiences of growing up in mining villages ( I am English ) and decided that the coal dust is formative!

October

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Re: N vs. Culture
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2004, 04:23:34 AM »
Quote from: Anonymous
Quote from: October



What gets me is how much cultural protection he gets !

Why ? It is culturally wrong ! and I will hate it cos I am a victim of the system. Oh yes people do 'care' for others and it  looks like 'collective responsibility' in such cultures but that is not the case. 'Care' is to make me fit in and deny all forms of 'deviation' and my anxieties, my tense relationship with my parents etc were ' cultural deviation' and hence it was me who was asked to compromise myself for the sake of society.

spirit




The cultural protection is the big plant protecting the weed.  The plant can't see the difference; you have to look really close to see the bliddy great dandelion next to the rose or thistle or whatever the culture happens to be.  I think collective cultures have a lot to offer, but it is a shame when they cannot see the harm which some families do to their members, and then hide under the cultural label.

I think we need to find a balance between the extremes of collective and individual cultures, and we need to listen to those who are caught in one or other and cannot cope.  And an abusive family will always abuse, but the abuse will look slightly different, depending on what is around.  It will try to blend in as far as possible, but will never quite manage to be invisible.

As long as you have a spirit of your own, you cannot deny your own identity and become a puppet for your family.  That would deny your humanity, and you cannot do that.  You can try, but it will break out.

All the best, and I love your name, Spirit.

Cathy

October

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N vs. Culture
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2004, 04:25:23 AM »
Quote from: write


I have a Canadian friend and we have shared experiences of growing up in mining villages ( I am English ) and decided that the coal dust is formative!



::Nods::  I think it gets in their heads, and muddles their thinking.  LOL!!!

Also English.  From Durham, although I live in the South now.  Where are you from??????  

Cathy

October

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N vs. Culture
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2004, 04:29:54 AM »
Quote from: Portia
(((((((((Cathy)))))))))
You sound very knowledgeable. I keep learning. And your insights are helping.

Cathy, I’ve been reading old posts and you sound good now. Your post about shame was fantastic.  Did you attend the winter-time event? I know that’s a prying question so I’m sorry if I’m out of order here. But I wondered and if you want to talk about it or not.



Good grief!!!!  Can't remember what I wrote before.  Perhaps I should check!!!!   :lol:   The winter time event?  That must be my mum's birthday.  Yes, we went.  Horrible time.  Some of it ok, but mostly horrible.  Couldn't undress the whole time.  Slept in my clothes and changed in the morning.  Not safe.  Lots of anger.  Several major episodes between my brother and his sons.  Not nice.  However, we live to tell the tale ...

You can ask anything you like, Portia.  Questions are allowed, and I will answer anything I am comfortable with.  So no worries there.

((((((((hugs))))))))

Cathy

write

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N vs. Culture
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2004, 10:07:33 PM »
Stoke-on-trent, Staffordshire.

I have walked ( the Great North Walk ) and travelled around Durham- awesome scenery.

Tokyojim

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N vs. Culture
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2004, 12:19:21 PM »
Concerning culture, it seems that when conflicts arise, much is really the struggle the person is having with one foot in each of two cultures.  I read the posts again, and it seems that the actual language is "western," for lack of a better word.  The new concepts of individuality are really western, and, once the thinking process has begun, it is there - permanently.  It is not a cause of the problem, but a part of it.  It is almost as though the "ignorance is bliss" idea has been removed.  When one gets exposed to another culture that is in conflict with the one of one's parents or surrounding society, conflict is inevitable.

It is unfortunate, but it requires making a choice and/or compromise.  I think that "faking it" in one culture works.  Better still, one can think of it as "adapting."

I received one piece of advice in relation to my brother and the severely dysfunctional lifestyle and family that he set up.  Rather than letting it get to me by my feeling a sense of needing to belong or be similar, he said to observe it and try to understand why I did not wind up like that.  Do not fully take part, but look at them as an anthropologist would, without judgment, but only trying to understand.  It was a bit difficult at first, but it worked!