the friends thing

[Iphi]

I am having trouble keeping up with the board so creating a new topic is about the last thing I should do!  but I just need so badly to express this which I just feel really shameful and bad about and I'm in a shame spiral and have been struggling against it for some days now.  finally I said - I will put it out there.  I have never come forward about this before except that I've told my H how badly this makes me anxious and how much I want to get better on this issue.

I am just so bad at friendships.  I have anxiety and fears that are so inhibiting. I don't reach out to communicate.  I withdraw.  Misunderstandings happen.  People think, naturally, that I am cold or rejecting them.  I can't address small issues that do come up.  I'm afraid to reach out and 'bother' people and then in retrospect I am angry at myself for not reaching out.  My Role of saver and helper and self-sacrificer screws up the balance in friendships - it is comfortable but strangling and it leads me into relationships with people who find it easy and comfortable to take.

I feel so sick just putting this out there.

Right now I am dealing with the results of one previously screwed up friendship where my H is successfully friends with a couple, but I have screwed up being friends with the wife.  Another couple where the wife outright does not like me, probably because I screwed up being friends with the wife in couple #1.  And another friendship where instead of saying "no that doesn't work for me" I have failed to communicate with the friend at all because it gives me so much fear to say "no."  And of course by not communicating at all, I'm making it so much worse than it has to be.  It's pathetic and lame and hurtful of me and I'm half in denial continually.  It's like I lose myself in distractions and that's how the denial works.  I don't know.

I just feel so badly about it, but really hopeless that I will ever be worthwhile as a friend.  I feel really like a bad person about this, but also as if becoming better - feels beyond me. 

Though I do have several long term friendships with good people, I feel a great deal of anxiety about them too - and these are very easy going people.  Clearly, they would have to be! 

This is just exactly the kind of thing that my family would judge me on, as inferior and damaged.  And I am damaged - it's like the results of the FOO for me seem to most impact living in the world - interacting with others.  Somehow that area just has not been a resilient one for me. 

Got to go for now.

[Poppy Seed]

Hey Iphi,

Haven't seen you in a while, so Hello.

Man, the friend thing.  Well, just know that you are not alone.  I am right there in the same boat with you.  I feel similar things that you have described.  Sometimes I think that my pain and fear just radiates bad energy that repells. And other times, I just feel like I have had to relate to such unhealthiness, that I have no idea how to interact in healthy ways.  Feel like everybody else has some secret or some knowledge that is completely lost on me.   And it is just like those n people to use this kinda stuff to lay out their judgements.  I think that is part of the distortion. And it hurts deeply and confirms our fears which makes it even harder to overcome.   But I have to remind myself that they exaggerate and lay on extreme labels so they can characterize themselves as superior.  If I am bad, they can be wonderful. So sad that they need to do something so violent to another soul just so they can feel good about themselves.  We simply can't believe their assessments.  They are NOT reliable and NOT accurate.  I try to imagine myself without their opinions.  I toss it like I do bad food!  It helps me relax and focus on what I can do to make it better.

I know what you mean when you say getting better feels beyond you.  I feel like that a lot too. 
I am looking forward to others comments on this issue.  It seems so hard for me but I really feel healed enough to start risking the friend-making process.  Fear of rejection is hard for me.  Fear that any little imperfection I have is enough to ruin any friendship is another.  I can't be perfect enough.  I try to adjust to each new person and anticipate their needs and wants.  I am afraid I don't know how to just relax and be myself and cop the attitude that they can take me or leave me.  I am good no matter what. Instead, I think I can try super hard to make everything great, and when my effort fails then I am a failure. 

I was thinking about the caretaking stuff.....and the people who gladly take.  This one is a matter of boundaries, I think.  Simple ones.  Hard to erect and to keep up at first, but simple in the nuts and bolts of it. I think that it is easier to get better results in this area than I  had previously thought.   I think that it is easier to for healthier people to find us WITH our boundaries.  I think it helps them orient and relax.  I am noticing that with my own stuff.  My H and I notice it with each other.  I find that I love him more when he has boundaries.  It makes me stop running with my codep head cut off, trying to pick up the pieces.  It helps me feel free and my expression of love is then free to be whatever it is in the moment.  I like that.   I think when our boundaries are firm and we are taking care with ourselves, that others  know they don't have to take care of us and can feel freer.  That feels good for both sides.  Our N people never let us relax and be.  We were required to jump thru hoops and contort ourselves.  Just saying that makes me feel a flash of anger inside. 

And just wondering why you feel anxiety about the long term friends you have.  If they are easy people, what makes it hard to be easy with them?  I have a super hard time seeing you as a bad friend.  But I know how hard it is to find the place where things groove comfortably.

Poppy

[Ami]

Dear Iphi,
  I hear you. I am SO glad that you reached out. I have been thinking about you and wondering where you were. I want to do justice to your thread with a well thought out answer,but I just wanted to "pop ' in to say that I understand totally(I wish that I didn't--lol)
I think that your courage will inspire many other people to share. Love You,Iphi.
  I will write later, friend.                                                                                           Love   Ami

((((((((((((((((((((((((Iphi---very brave))))))))))))))))))))))))

[isittoolate]

Any friends that I made throughout my life (which has always been dysfunctional with my trying to hang in there and be a friend.) were made at school and work, BUT

With anyone, I wondered if they would like me for the whoever I was that I didn't know part of me and if I might run away to save beeing found out.

I also found that friendship could never be forced: that there was something in common that pulled another gal and me together. Looking back there were always 3 of us who hung out together, at each work place. Something else I noted was that we were friends at work but were not very social outside of work.

At one job, a girl disliked me from the start. I wondered why but had an idea.. We were earning the same salary and I was brand new while she was already top paid in Accounting. I was the payroll clerk and she was the only other person who could look at my work, except my boss. That’s how she knew my salary. We were just civil at work people, then one day she came to me and told me that she didn’t like me at the beginning, and why (it was as I suspected) and said I was worth every penny and she was sorry.

That is likely the one and only time something like that happened to me in my life, then we socialized outside work too. She would get me blind dates and we’d be a foursome. She was married. One guy I rather liked a lot, but I kind of held back as I had a daughter, but I could tell she liked him too and didn’t hold back. Before I knew it she was divorced and engaged to him and we faded away after her marriage and birth of twins.

So now I live here alone, no personal friends and am on the civil and laughing, chatting about work stage with my workmates, but no socializing. One gal has been bringing my work since I broke my leg and I have a gift for her when I finally go back to the Office, but this is not going to make us best friends. I leave it as being good workmates.

After 68 years it is difficult to find someone who will spontaneously go water skiing.

Izzy

[changing]

Iphi-

You and your husband are not a set of salt and pepper shakers- Sometimes lightning may strike and you both will be simpatico with another couple, but most likely not. There can be so many layers of issues- jealousy, competition, dominance, chemistry, moral, intellectual and cultural gaps- true friends are few and far between, and cannot be manufactured. Men often communicate and bond on a different plane,  usually sans the stupid junior high school games that unfortunately beset so many female relationships. Those couples who are befriended by your husband can be acquaintances on your part, you can be gracious, enjoy activities , etc, and if you do find a true friend, fine, if not, stay on a level that is comfortable for you- back off any drama queens, and remain close to your real friends.

You are such a bright, witty, and caring person- I am sure that your friends of many years realize how blessed they are to know you. With the trauma inflicted upon children by Ns , when they grow into adults it can sometimes be difficult to view themselves accurately, instead of as the person on the outside looking in, who is wrong, not good enough, etc. You are wonderful and need to erase the brainwashing and learn to see yourself as you really are- friendly and lovable (except to Ns and drama queens!)

Love,

Chaging

[changing]

Izzy-

It makes my heart ache to read about how alone you are. You are so decent and honest, your decency and honesty have cost you a great price in a milleu of super Ns that would likely have been the death of the rest of us. I only pray that you receive the love and attention that you deserve, and that the future iwill be best time in your life. Anyone in your life who does not really know and love you is missing something uniquely lovely, meaningful and important, and I pity them.
As for you, I pray that you meet some special friends right away, your family reconnects, and that you keep encountering cute and intriguiging guys until  the right one comes along!!! Then you will be so overwhelmed with people seeking your company, that you will bar the door and take the phone off the hook!
When you feel better Izzlet, get out there and mingle- your charisma is unbeatable!

Love, Love, Love,

Changing

[sunblue]

Iphi:

Friends...or lack thereof.  This is such a good topic.  I am convinced that difficulty in forming or maintaining friendships is one of the common traits of those who have suffered as a result of an N family or relationship.  It makes sense that it would be.  If you grew up around an N family or had a long-term relationship with an N, all your time and energy is spent on pleasing that person, whether consciously or not.  You are constantly giving, giving, giving to that other person.  It is always about that N, not you.  On the other hand, seeking out friendships, people who will nurture you, encourage and support you, laugh with you, spend time with you and take an interest in you, is an act that focuses on YOU, not the N.  It feels foreign.  Not to mention, those of us who grew up in N households have no model to follow.  Ns neither are interested in or capable of forming quality, long-term relationships or friendships with others.  We don't come out of the womb knowing how to cultivate friendships or how to be a good friend.  It is a learned behavior.  If no one taught us how or if we have no role models to follow and even worse, if our efforts at making friendships were thwarted time and again, it just makes sense we're not very good at making friends.

Like others who posted on this topic, I am in the same boat you are.  I have no friends.  It's not that I haven't tried.  It's not that I'm outwardly shy or unable to communicate in social situations.  It's not that I'm mean or lack understanding in what constitutes a good friend.  ON the contrary.  In the past, when I have had friendships in my life, I was a very good friend.  Others told me so.  But in the end, it was always a one-sided relationships.  "So-called" friends were no friends at all, it turned out.  IN one way or another, they all betrayed, ignored or hurt me.  I also have a very difficult time meeting people.  Like others here, I have had no problem conversing with people at work or church or other situations.  But when it comes to taking that "friendship" to the next level, where the "friend" had to invest time or attention on me, then it never happened.

I always marveled that my "healthy" brother never had a problem meeting or making friends.  Indeed, they all seemed to flock to him.  THey called him.  And, he never did anything out of the ordinary to attract them.  He didn't have to join social groups, volunteer groups or make any unusual efforts to meet them.  It just happened.  But I do think a N upbringing has this effect on us.

It's ironic though.  Even as a young child, I always highly valued friendships or the very few people I came across in my life.  I knew how important they were.  I valued them.  I did for them.  I paid attention to them.  Yet, it was never returned to me.  I don't know why.  Wish I did.

So I can identify.  Please don't be so hard on yourself Iphi.  Sounds to me like you have some good friends in your life already.  Maybe just focus on those.  And I agree that it doesn't always make sense that you would be good friends with someone just because your husband is friends with the husband.  You're bound to be attracted to different kinds of people.  It doesn't mean you can't socialize with them occasionally.  But I've found that people you socialize with and real friends are two completely different breeds.  If you have any true friends in your life, especially long-term ones, I'd start by focusing on them and going from there.

Hang in there Iphi.  You sound like a very caring, generous person.  You know I had a therapist once who required me to ask my loved ones (not many, basically my brother and his wife) to participate in an exercise in which they listed good or positive things about me.  When the therapist asked me to name some, I couldn't think of any so he thought it would be a good idea to have others give me a more objective view of myself.  Perhaps you and your long-term friends could consider doing something like that.  It might remind you how much they care about you and why they value you.

Just a thought.

[Ami]

Dear Iphi,
  Your thread is really important. I want to add my experiences. I am going out and will write when I get back. Hope that you are doing well                      Love   Ami

[Iphi]

Thank you Poppy, Ami, Izzy, Changing and sunblue for sharing your comfort, thoughts and experiences with me.  It helped me so much to turn a corner into a more detached, less crisis (what would the word be in this context) sort of place.  When the crisis feeling hits, then my anxiety increases, then I feel a lot of vulnerability to feeling like I am all the bad things I've been told I am to control me. 

Thank you each and all so much for responding and humanizing and sharing on this experience.  It really means so much when the issue is so vulnerable a one.

It can be so, so hard to be compassionate to yourself especially about the things we are really not very good at. 

I actually have so many kinds of relationships, but most are fleeting.  I like people in general, but I concentrate on interacting happily right now. 

Also, I don't know how, in many ways.  And I saw this morning that I am weak (like a weak muscle) because over time as choices have come before me, I have usually chosen the fearful path and so fear is strengthened and courage is weakened, and also there is an opportunity cost where I had not learned lessons that I would learn on the path of courage.

But it is also very confusing.  Many times, I have befriended very N-ish people and I have had 'secondary gain' from that because they don't pay much attention to me.  Therefore, my flaws and shortcomings as a friend are not an issue and the N-ish one will set the agenda and make their wants and plans clear.  So my role is to be available and responsive and to pay attention to them.  sunblue in your post, I hear you saying you have taken a similar approach as I have, in having these N-ish friendships where you are available to the other person and it's about them.  Do you think we are on the same page on this?

I have a friend from my home town.  We have been friends since we were 12.  She's warm hearted and we have a lovely time together always.  But it's funny.  She actually is self-centered in a thoughtless sort of way and I always have been careful not to offer any sort of competition - I am careful to do everything I can to preserve the relationship.  But she's very loving and has many lovely qualities as a person.  So somehow this friendship really worked for me where many others have fallen by the wayside through my anxiety and fear or desire to move away from N-ish friends.  Though I was in a comfortable role of not being scrutinized (she took me as I presented myself which is to say - concealing a lot!) and mostly paying attention to her life - yet she was always caring and kind to me as well.  Right now we both have small children and she never travels to visit me anyway - so it is attenuated and I sometimes feel I will lose the relationship and feel a lot of anxiety that I am not doing enough - but it's probably the best one I have.

Perhaps better words for my past relationships might be alliances or associations.  There have been a lot of fun and good times, really, with many different people.  But I would never presume upon them and it creates huge anxiety in me to even keep up contact once life has moved on.  My way has been to just flow along in the present and just flow on past.  But is that the right way?  I'm very passive.  And, this really hurts the most - I am unable to respond in many ways to more specifically friendly overtures.  Fear overwhelms me and I withdraw.  And these are people I would particularly like to be friends with, if only I could believe in - be free to - had confidence that - I could be a good friend and not a horrible disappointment.  You know - I feel sort of cursed - like if there is an expectation or something - it engenderes such anxiety - I feel certain I will fail and fail hugely!

I feel that I have not digested life lessons here.  Also, sometimes it is hard to digest the lessons when one is not clear headed - just as changing posted - it is so hard to see things accurately, to learn how to help myself see things accurately.

[changing]

My Dear Dear Iphi-

I think that you see things very clearly, in fact you are a high level critical/spatial thinker. What I think that you do not see clearly in all respects is yourself.

Certainly, friendships need tending, and the demands of family can loosen many types of friendships- those depending on shared roles or situations, ie your best froend at work, etc. Some friendships accommodate these spaces- but none the less the phenomenon is not limited to you Iphi!!!

The wounds and scars from a childhood of N abuse and neglect can certainly remain an impediment that must be overcome to truly come back into the world of the living.  I share many of your concerns and foibles in my relationship- I just don't have any FOO experience, really, and it hampers my ability for normative social interaction. But I think that your biggest area of blurred vision is your view of yourself and your self expectations. Iphi, you have been such a kind, wise counsel and deeply thinking friend to me- I am sure that you are treasured by others as well. Those supposed flaws and shortcomings that haunt you so should not dictate your life, and are probably a fiction made from whole cloth created by N abuse. You are human, and so you must have some imperfections- but you are really a wonderful person, and you need not hide yourself to be loved and befriended. Iphi you are wonderful and wise, friendly and lovable, and that is the most important thing that you need to see clearly. You are a great friend! Let Iphi shine out!!!

Love from your friend in the posts,

Changing

[Iphi]

Sniff, I'm totally farklemt changing.  Thank you, you are wonderful too.  It's completely obvious!   

[sunblue]

Iphi:

Actually, I think I am very much like you when it comes to friendships.  I tend to give and give but get nothing or at least not much in return.  Actually, I believe I am a very good friend, maybe too good.  I think deep down I have been afraid to set down strict boundaries with friends because if they do, I risk them walking away.  The truth is they walk away anyway.

I, too, knew someone for many, many years who I regarded as a good friend.  I was there always for her.  I saw her through three marriages, three painful divorces, the birth of her daughter and multiple personal crises.  I would log many, many hours on the phone listening to her and offering her advice.  I dropped everything so I could drive over to her, 1.5 hours away, to do what she needed or wanted.  She always said I was a good friend to her and knew she could always count on me.  This is true.  However, I very slowly came to realize she was not there for me.  The past few years have been extremely difficult for me.  I am unemployed and full of despair, depression and hopelessness right now.  Yet, she had never once calls me to see how I'm doing.  I used to repeatedly ask her to do things with me or come over for a visit, but she always came up with a last minute excuse.  Early this year, she moved to a different apartment and she never even gave me the address or phone number.  Once or twice she called me from her cell basically to bend my ear about a crisis she was going through.  So I've had to come to realize that she is no friend at all and never was.  She is a user.  She is just a very selfish, self-centered and needy person.  She has a daughter but her needs rarely come before this woman's needs.  So, I stopped calling her.  I stopping doing considerate things for her.  I stopped extending invitations.  The result?  She never tried contacting me.  So I guess my fear was right.  Once you set your boundaries, they have no interest in you.  But at some point, I guess I felt I had to have enough respect for myself not to continue to put myself in this situation with her.

So, yes, Iphi I can identify with your situation.  The difference probably is that I don't have anyone else in my life.  No life-long friends, spouse, boyfriend or children.  So it is extremely lonely.  But I do know what constitutes a good friend.  While it was extremely hurtful and sad to learn this "friend" I spoke of wasn't there for me when I so desperately needed it, I could not avoid the truth.  She did not know what it was like to be a good friend.  Or, perhaps it was just that she wasn't interested in being a good friend to me.  Either way, I know that I don't now or probably never did really matter to her, despite her words.

I don't have the answer to this.  In my case, I really don't understand why no one wanted to be a good friend to me.  I have always been there for others.  I always cared and listened and gave.  But it was just never really returned.  I think I'm particularly sensitive to this rejection having been rejected by my Nmom and Nsister and co-dependent dad.  But I also think having "lost" these significant family members, it was always more important for me to have friends.  The fact that I never was able to have those good friends just serves to reinforce my sense of failure, unworthiness and unloveability.  But again, I know that to hang on to those people who put up a facade of being a "good friend" isn't the right thing to do either.  After awhile, you can no longer fool yourself into believing it's a reciprocal relationship.

I'd like to think that before I die, I will have found one person in this world who could reciprocate my friendship and feelings, but I really don't know.  At this point, it wouldn't surprise me if it wouldn't come to be.

But you are in a much better position.  You have long-term friends.  You have a husband.  You have the opportunity to meet with couples your husband knows.  I think having even just one really good friend is better than having a lot of acquaintances where there's not much substance.

So hold on to those quality friendships you have.  They are important if they are truly reciprocal.  Reach out to them.  You seem like a very sincere, giving person and I'm sure the people in your life value you.

[Hopalong]

wonderful topic, Iphi, thank you.

Just a tiny thought in a work break. It occured to me reading these posts that it reminds me of stuff I read in Judith Sills' book A Fine Romance, about the early stages of relationships. (Her book is about romantic things, but these general things strike me as applicable). So what occurs to me is that perhaps part of the solution would be in just changing your self-talk by making a language alteration:

What if, instead of saying, I need to make friends...instead, you decide on a plan or activity you know you'd enjoy, and then step 2 could be: I would like a companion while I do this. Who would I enjoy iniviting to do this (single specific event) with me?

Then, you and your new companion do something together. Afterward, you ask yourself how it felt to be with that person.

Along comes another activity or event--either one you initiate or when someone invites you. You tell yourself,  X is going to be my companion for this. And afterward, ask yourself, how did it feel to spend that time with X?

And so on. I think it's just like staying in the present. A new habit. You can do it. Just keep having activity/event + companion/s.

After a while, you'll know which people have become the F word. (Well, the other F word.) 

hugs and hopes
Hops

[Ami]

Dear Iphi,
  I have been thinking about your thread from the first day that you posted it. You spoke from your heart and from so much pain. I had so much to say,but could not say it at the time b/c I was not clear enough in my own mind.
  I want to try to answer it by first giving a brief history of my friendships. Then, I want to share some new revelations that I learned this past month.
  I always had best friends and groups of friends. When I had my inner core, I remember reading the Prophet by Gibran  about relationships. He said, "Let there be spaces in your togetherness."  I remember thinking that with friendships, your FIRST friend has to be '"you". I remember that my first loyalty was to me. I have been reading a book on relationships. It says that you have to love yourself first. Otherwise, your relationships won't work.
  I did love myself. I had enough love that I could give it away in my relationships and still have me.  This is a crucial key,I think Also, my self esteem was not invested in the relationship..If the relationship failed, I did not fail. I was still as whole as before.
 I was able to keep this concept of friendships through my first two years of college. Then,I guess I became so numb that I just was "acting". I was lost somewhere inside myself. For me ,friendships now became a way for me to define myself (in other words codependent).
 I still had relationships but they did not "feel" good at all. I hurt all the time,but I did not realize what was wrong with me. What was wrong was that I lost my core. I was trying to navigate life without a core. It is very painful. No outside experience or relationship will help this problem. There is nothing "good" enough to fix it. The "fix" is connecting with your core( and God ,IMO)
  So, I had many friendships after these two years in college. Many people liked me b/c I was a  person who listened and gave to them ,but i was lost s/where.Friendships were painful to me. Gradually, I stopped reaching out b/c it  never helped heal the inside. Gradually,I just gave up. That is when I found the board.
  Now, I am convinced that we cannot have any relationship be good if we "need" it to define us. Right there, the relationship is doomed (or will be painful to us), no matter HOW it turns out.
  I think that we have to fix the inside . We have to change our buttons such as ',I am worthless, tell me that I am O.K.' et
 I learned a lot in these last few weeks.I think that the answers for how to have relationships are found in studying how not to be "codependent".
 Maria and I are friends again.It feels better to me. I feel stronger. I was wanting approval and love so I was giving too much. THAT was my problem-- not hers.
   Relationships are painful as hell when you are codependent. I guess the only way out of being codependent is to "fail your way to success". I failed in many ways with Maria,but we are in a new stage now. I learned many lessons and I guess that I am back "on the horse". She knows that I am pulling myself up from the 'dregs" and she understands,I think. I am a little stronger ,now . She and I have adjusted to that.
  I am combating all the lies about my value and needing others to define me.                          Love   Ami

[Iphi]

I am sorry to not have had a chance to thoughtfully respond to the very giving and wise posts of sun, hops and ami.  You have such depth of experience to share.  It's hard to post on this topic for me because it is such an anxiety trigger.  It was in the end easier to let it sink off the first page.  BUT that would be typical of the way I deal with things that cause me anxiety!  If I think of the FOO (or Role as Shunned named it) issues as a big knot, then there are, say, nodes on the knot.  And the friends thing is a major node or nexus of anxiety and issues.

I love your ideas about activity companions hops and I think it will be helpful for me to think of connections in that way, especially moving forward as I start socializing as a mom.  I want to go operate under the banner of 'good fences make good neighbors.'   

sun I understand about falling into the default role of the provider in friendships.  It's hard to understand what I am doing in a friendship if not in that role.     I think it is crucially important to figure out what we are in the relationship for ourselves.  In the past I was there for company, for approval, to be allowed to provide.  I'm not even sure!  I have extreme lack of clarity here. 

Ami I resonate very much with your post and especially when you wrote 'friendships were painful to me.'  That about sums it up. 

It's that time of year - I've just received my school alumni newsletter where people write in and share their doings.  Many names are unfamiliar to me now, but the names of former friends and associates gives me an uncomfortable mix of feelings.  Am I happy to see their good news and doings, sure.  Does it make me want to send an email or pick up the phone... no not really.

But then a couple of names make me ask 'why why why' to the dysfunction in ways I relate.  I recall one of those friends had a penchant for underhanded cruelties and sabotage.  I read this evening how she visits with other old schoolmates.  And I wonder - is it just me?  I mean - we broke over this behavior.  But maybe I should have just taken evasive maneuvers, because essentially breaking with her was the kiss of death to keeping up with a whole group.  Does everyone else just put up with it?  Or does she treat them better?  Does it matter? 

It saps the confidence though.  Tolerating stuff doesn't seem to be the answer, but right now I am not content to review my record here (in the newsletter) of some people I formerly knew. 

But do I wish I had continued to allow her to undermine me to keep a status quo?  No, I've never had a day I missed that, though I do feel for her because her cruelty is definitely connected to some kind of pain and I wished so much she would not do those actions that were so distressing both to her and to me, but she never did stop year after year.  Would I like to write in to the newsletter how we had a nice visit etc?  Yes but only if it was actually true.

Sometimes it seems like the answer is to just not mind about people's frailties (I've got plenty too!)and to be more easy going, but then if you hang around with venomous creatures, imo, you will be bitten or stung.

Seeing a blast from the past like our alumni newsletter makes me feel like I am watching a whole world break of from me and drift away.  Is this toxic nostalgia?