distress and compassion

[gabbenangel]

I have been suffering distress, questioning my sanity because my x N therapist or N spiritual director. She shunned me when I tried to gently confront her about what seemed like subtle despise coming from her towards me, as well as her consistant lack of empathy over my grief and sorrow. Her refusal to ever speak to me again pushed a mom button and pummeled me into the pain of my rejection of my childhood abandonment. A button she new all too well... I have to almost think that she enjoys hurting people...what therapists would use your buttons has revenge against you? It is almost sadistic. I have been in distress looking up and examining every personality disorder know to man-kind in attempt to understand why a person would shun another...I ask myself daily... am I the abuser... am I aggressive, am I the one who is the N? Am I spilt off in any way where I am not seeing or in touch with some aspect of self that I project onto others?

It is crazy making but I am healing....


I understand a great deal of this was transference in therapy, and in relationships in general; we can make everyone become our mom and dad in an attempt to act out the unfinished business of our childhoods. However, I was very careful of not projecting...I approached the subject to her with an investigatory attitude more than I had any contempt.

Then I was in pain because of her rejection and the memores/new layer of healing that was brought up at the time that I went to my other spiritual director, the priest, he treated me coldly, I knew that she, the x N therapist/spiritual director had spoken with him first. He leads her prayer group. He was harsh in a way that I had never seen before and I had known him for two years. When I asked him about his harshness he made me, in a round about way, think that it was all in my head. I know that I can be overly critical of myself and when I am that way I can easily perceive others as criticizing me but what was painful and harsh about him was as though he was in fix it mode...wanting to fix me more than empathizing and encouraging my healing.  For him that may have seemed like caring and empathy but for those of us trying to heal, we don't want others to try and fix us...I just want compassion and acceptance. And if someone does not give it to me then I am just going to have to get it from God and give it too myself...gosh darn it !!! 

[isittoolate]

I have been suffering distress, questioning my sanity because my x N therapist or N spiritual director. She shunned me when I tried to gently confront her about what seemed like subtle despise coming from her towards me, as well as her consistant lack of empathy over my grief and sorrow. Her refusal to ever speak to me again pushed a mom button and pummeled me into the pain of my rejection of my childhood abandonment. A button she new all too well... I have to almost think that she enjoys hurting people...what therapists would use your buttons has revenge against you? It is almost sadistic. I have been in distress looking up and examining every personality disorder know to man-kind in attempt to understand why a person would shun another...I ask myself daily... am I the abuser... am I aggressive, am I the one who is the N? Am I spilt off in any way where I am not seeing or in touch with some aspect of self that I project onto others?

It is crazy making but I am healing....


I understand a great deal of this was transference in therapy, and in relationships in general; we can make everyone become our mom and dad in an attempt to act out the unfinished business of our childhoods. However, I was very careful of not projecting...I approached the subject to her with an investigatory attitude more than I had any contempt.

Then I was in pain because of her rejection and the memores/new layer of healing that was brought up at the time that I went to my other spiritual director, the priest, he treated me coldly, I knew that she, the x N therapist/spiritual director had spoken with him first. He leads her prayer group. He was harsh in a way that I had never seen before and I had known him for two years. When I asked him about his harshness he made me, in a ,round about way think that it was all in my head. I know that I can be overly critical of myself and when I am that way I can easily perceive others as criticizing me but what was painful and harsh about him was as though he was in fix it mode...wanting to fix me more than empathizing and encouraging my healing.  For him that may have seemed like caring and empathy but for those of us trying to heal, we don't want others to try and fix us...I just want compassion and acceptance. And if someone does not give it to me then I am just going to have to get it from God and give it too myself...gosh darn it !!! 

Hey gabben

Did it ever occur to you that one or both are Nns??????? Look at all the black marks. That is abnormal behaviour. I would dump them and search for a more compassionate therapist. They are out there.

Yes we all could use understanding and compassion, empathy and friendship.

Coming from God we don't know when he is over Russia and is out of range with his cell phone, so we really need this in human form.

xx
Izzy

leg style cell

[attachment deleted by admin]

[gabbenangel]

Coming from God we don't know when he is over Russia and is out of range with his cell phone, so we really need this in human form.

This is funny...LOL!!!

Thanks Izzy!

Lise

[Ami]

Dear Lise,
  I want to write tomorrow when I am not so tired. I am so glad that you are here. Your post deserves s/one with a clear ,thinking head b/c you brought out very profound points.                                       Love   Ami


((((((((((((Lise)))))))))))))))))))

[wiltay]

Lise, I agree with Izzy, I think you are giving both of these people too much credit.  I too am very suspicious of the pastor's behavior.  I agree with you, his cold, fix-you behavior is not right.   She IS punishing you, make no mistake about it.   She will use every bit of her knowledge of your 'weaknesses' against you without any qualms, because you have stopped loving her unconditionally and she is very angry about it, even if she won't show it.  You are dealing with the emotions of an angry 3 year old, not an adult and you mustn't try to comprehend her behavior in adult terms or you'll drive yourself nuts.  This is the hardest part to see--her adult behavior is only an act, and she's quite an accomplished actor.  Emotionally she hasn't progressed beyond a self-centered 3 year old needing you to worship her.  Very hard and painful to realize.  We're all rooting for you!

Bill

[Ami]

Dear Lise,
  What struck me is the sentence that we "repeat our mother and father " issues with others(therapists, priests,other people). That hit me like a "brick"on the head. WOW.
That seems to be the answer----my buttons. Oh ,the pain of my buttons. How many thousands of times have I repeated the story of my M by "playing'it out in "actions"?I am still doing it.
 I agree with the wise answers from Izzy, Bill and Bean. The two "spiritual" leaders are very,very abusive. The woman probably "lured" the priest in to her "crazy web", but now they are a team. You did not do anything wrong  BUT have "buttons"
  That is the part that I see where you( and I) have the capacity to change.
  I look back on most of my relationships. I wanted my M. It was that simple. I wanted her again and again with both men and woman.
 Many of my relationships got screwed up or I just ran away when I was "overwhelmed" with what I had created.
  This woman is BAD. I am sure that she has a whole "pile" of victims. The priest has joined with her. We don't know the dynamics of why that was. However,it is not a safe environment for you,now(IMO)
  The only way that you could stay there,if you want to, is to heal suffiiciently. , that you don't care anymore about them and it means nothing to you.
  If that can't happen(which it would be very hard), then I think that you should leave.
  It was a lesson that we have all learned. I think that everyone ,on the board, could relate(IMO)
  You fell "in the hole". My former b/f( the cop).always told me of the story of the guy falling in the hole. You must know it. The guy walks down the street and keeps falling in the "same" hole. One day, he takes another street----bleh.
  I think that you simply repeated the yearning in your heart from your FOO. How many times have I repeated it :Countless times.
   That is how I see it . Lise, you are a wonderful voice with vitality and beauty. I think that you will come out of this stronger. I bet that you feel it already.                Love   Ami

(((((((((((((((Lise)))))))))))))))

[gabenangel]

Dear Lise,
  I want to write tomorrow when I am not so tired. I am so glad that you are here. Your post deserves s/one with a clear ,thinking head b/c you brought out very profound points.                                       Love   Ami


((((((((((((Lise)))))))))))))))))))

Thank you         ((((((((((((((AMI))))))))))))))))

[gabbenangel]

gabben,

Oh dear.  An abusive therapist or other supposedly supportive figure is probably one of the biggest setbacks I've seen people discuss here.

This is the last thing you needed or deserved.

Please keep yourself in your prayers tonight, I will keep you in mine too - you deserve all the love and guidance that is humanly available tonight.

I'm sorry

bean

Hi Bean,

Thank you for your prayers. I am glad that I found this forum.

Blessings,
Lise

[gabbenangel]

Dear Lise,
  What struck me is the sentence that we "repeat our mother and father " issues with others(therapists, priests,other people). That hit me like a "brick"on the head. WOW.

Dr. Grossman has an article that was very helpful to me..here is the link:

http://www.voicelessness.com/narcissism.html

I agree with the wise answers from Izzy, Bill and Bean. The two "spiritual" leaders are very,very abusive. The woman probably "lured" the priest in to her "crazy web", but now they are a team. You did not do anything wrong  BUT have "buttons"

Crazy web...I like that...it is a funny thing how the truth with set us free.

I don't think the priest is a full blown N, it is possible he has a bit of the N traits though. I think that it is like Ami said...he has been pulled into her crazy web and he respects her because of her degrees and prestige, so he will listen to whatever she says above whatever I say.

No doubt she scapegoated me to him by her playing the innocent victim..that is why he was so cold to me and protective of her. Little did he know that he was not really protecting her but a mirage..her image.

I think that he has her up on a pedestal...his dream of a saintly woman come true, he can't see yet her real self or lack there of.  He is a good man he does mean well he has just been pulled into the web like Ami said. I am a little suspicious of him...perhaps he is a LV too...and one day she will turn on him if he ever gets wind of her wolf ass under the wool suit.

[Gabbenangel]

  The only way that you could stay there,if you want to, is to heal sufficiently. , that you don't care anymore about them and it means nothing to you.
  If that can't happen(which it would be very hard), then I think that you should leave.
  It was a lesson that we have all learned. I think that everyone ,on the board, could relate(IMO)
  You fell "in the hole". My former b/f( the cop).always told me of the story of the guy falling in the hole. You must know it. The guy walks down the street and keeps falling in the "same" hole. One day, he takes another street----bleh.

Hi Ami,


Your share was so encouraging and helpful... so much to respond too.

I have left the prayer group, I did that last year... I left my work with the Saintly N and now I have left my work with the priest. It was painful but I new that I needed to be with safe people and that God would eventually lead me to those safe people...people like you!

I love the "hole story." It is so true...however, this time instead of falling into the hole through a love relationship I made the counselors and the instution of my parish my Mom and Dad...or my God. Now, I have pulled back a bit and I am taking the time to let the wounds under this stuff come up. At times I feel like a 3 year old... I cry those deep sobs accompanied by burning tears, my heart hurts, but it is healing. Perhaps next time, Ami, you and I will just take a different street, where there is no hole!~

[gabbenangel]

   She IS punishing you, make no mistake about it.   She will use every bit of her knowledge of your 'weaknesses' against you without any qualms, because you have stopped loving her unconditionally and she is very angry about it, even if she won't show it.  You are dealing with the emotions of an angry 3 year old, not an adult and you mustn't try to comprehend her behavior in adult terms or you'll drive yourself nuts.  This is the hardest part to see--her adult behavior is only an act, and she's quite an accomplished actor. 

Thank you Bill - you insight is very helpful and it feels right on. It is so hard to think that people would this way...cold wanting to hurt. but I guess they have to protect themselves against people like me. She knows that my deepest wound is abandonment...she also knows that I get angry with abandonment. Therefore, what better way to make herself look good than to make me look angry...then she can say to everyone "see, Lise is the aggressor."  Is this a classic N trick or what?

Very helpful Bill... thank you.

Lise

Emotionally she hasn't progressed beyond a self-centered 3 year old needing you to worship her.  Very hard and painful to realize.  We're all rooting for you!

THANK YOU!! This web forum is a blessing!

Bill

[Leah]

Saint N's are, in my experience, the deadliest.  

In Sheep's Clothing by George Simon work on the subtleties of manipulation, control and exclusion,
as mentioned earlier today, springs to mind.

With regard to church events, the Saint N sails the ship, with the voiceless priest towing the line.

Observed it many times, from girlhood thro' to womanhood.

Shivers me timbers.

Leah

[wiltay]

Lise,  Randy had at least two people that he manipulated into acting in his stead so he could maintain his silent treatment of me and also be able to claim that they were acting entirely on their own when they dumped HIS anger onto me. (I suspect that's what the pastor is doing, even if he isn't aware of it)  Randy motivated these people by convincing them that I was 'out to get him' because I was 'unstable' and had "anger issues."  (this is the very same explanation he gave to me for the anger of his ex-women friends.)  I DID have anger and emotional issues with him of course, created entirely by his own horrid behavior, but the wish to cause him harm was his own projection onto me. 

     But he 'proved' his case one day by ambushing me in front of the whole group with a very subtle, very deliberate provocation. This was his secret come-back plan to get rid of me.  It took me completely by surprise and I 'lost it' before I knew it.  He knew exactly what would push my buttons!  I didn't hit him and I wouldn't have, because I CAN control myself,  but I definitely wanted to put 'the fear of the lord' into him, if you know what I mean.  Well, that pretty much destroyed all of my credibility from that point on and the whole thing was entirely planned and calculated to do just that.  I became from that day on a 'violent person'  in many people's eyes.

 I think you should expect almost anything from this woman if you stay in her world.  Another thing to think about in regard to this woman that's been coming onto my radar screen lately.  I think Randy befriended me right from the beginning because of envy.  From the word go, he had a mission to ruin me because I had something (I don't know what, it doesn't matter) that caused him to feel inadequate and the way to fix that was to gain my trust and then bring me down at every opportunity.  (Reminds me of the pedophile befriending all the single guys).  Too many weird things happened over the years and it's really the only explanation.  I also say this because I have been sabotaged in some way by ALL the male Ns I've known and it's clearly what Ns do to 'rivals.'   IMO, it's largely unconscious on their part, but does that matter?  Anyway, that's MY war story.  I hope it can spare you some of the crap that I went through.

Bill

[gabbenangel]

Hi Bill,

I'm getting a strong message from your posts to keep a good eye open for her potential sabotage in my life. I think that if I can stay as far away from her and her groupies then I will be OK. I have many friends and support who do not know her and would stand up for me no matter what. Then there is God... if He is for me then what N can really be against me.

I'm paying close heed to your posts and your warnings to expect her games to continue...it is like you said earlier  that she will stop at nothing to make sure that I do not blow her cover or image of the kindly saint.

I think that her lack of empathy is her biggest fear... if she knew that people knew that she could care less about them then it would devastate her.  

I wonder...do these N's really know what they are doing? I mean, are not some of them just deeply wounded little victims who have not come to terms with their veneer and pain yet. Once people start seeing through them then won't they give the gig up and see if they cannot heal and grow...or am I just full of wishful thinking?

[gabbenangel]

     But he 'proved' his case one day by ambushing me in front of the whole group with a very subtle, very deliberate provocation. This was his secret come-back plan to get rid of me.  It took me completely by surprise and I 'lost it' before I knew it.  He knew exactly what would push my buttons! 

This is amazes me...did anyone else in the group see what was going on? If you don't mind, what was the provocation?

Lise