Suggestions from my T

[tayana]

I need a little advice.  My T asked me to consider some things I've never really considered before.

First of all, she told me to not even bother trying to reestablish contact with my mom.  She said nothing good will ever come of it.  My mom is incapable of being a mom.  We talked a little about M and some of the "choices" I was often snubbed, scorned and denigrated for offering him, like giving him a say in his education.  The T thought it was wonderful and very healthy that I had allowed him to have a say (and I've been worrying that I give him too much freedom), but my mom had told me that I shouldn't even bother because the decision was mine.  So I have to decide if I want to try to establish limited contact and learn to be able to say, "I'm not going to discuss this with you."  "It's none of your business" and similar things, or if I just want to let the whole thing go. 

In my heart, I really want to just let the whole thing go, but I don't know that M is there.

The other thing she asked me to consider, that I've never really thought about before is trying to collect child support from M's father.  We have limited contact, mostly emails and phone calls.  He claims he wants to eventually be more involved in M's life, but until now he has been nothing more than a sperm donor.  At one point, before I moved when I was just trying to get the moving plan together, he confided that he had been making 70K a year, but he'd squandered and managed his money poorly, ending up in debt.  At the time he was making that kind of money and spending it on gaming, pizza, and pricey electronics, I was scraping by, barely able to pay my daycare at a job that had no benefits.  And then I went to another job that had benefits, but paid less than 20k a year.  I didn't really think about it at the time, but now that I'm not around my mother's nonsense, I'm starting to think about this situation more.  Especially after he told me he'd like to be more involved in M's life.  M doesn't want a father and is perfectly happy with our current arrangement.   In fact, he told me he was going to start calling regularly, but he never has.  I didn't really expect him to either.  One thing about have an n parent.  I learned never to set my expectations too high, or to count on anything happening until it happens.

Should I look into it?  I'm not doing badly, finance wise, now.  I have a good job.  I don't have many debts.  ANd I don't know that I want to get into the expense of trying to pursue this.

[lighter]

Tay..... I'm going to agree with your T 100% regarding NC with your mother.  You prolly already knew where I'd stand but..... there it is in black and white.

As for child support...... if any father deserves to contribute to his child's financial security.... it's some guy making 70K a year, blowing it all on games and pizza

I think it's a moral imperative that you require he contribute.

The fact he hasn't been held responsible, up to this point, should make you feel less guilty about asking him for help now, which is appropriate to ask for, btw. 

I know you'll handle it just fine..... but there's my 2cents.

[tayana]

Lighter, that is the choice I'm leaning towards.  No contact.  None.  The thought of going to my parents' house, alone with M, makes those feelings of anxiety and fear come rushing back full force.

My father always told me I'd regret this choice, but I don't.  Not one bit.  I wish I'd done it sooner.

About the child support thing . . .

When I was pregnant, I didn't want anything from him.  The social worker at the perinatal place I went to tried to get me to consider WIC and also trying to get child support.  I turned down both.  Some of that could have been that my mother was sitting in the room with me.  I said I didn't want anything from him.

That was the young and foolish me.  The 22 year old who'd been a bit stupid and didn't know better.

Eleven years later . . . after everything I've been through, it seems like the sperm donor now wants some sort of relationship with me and with M.  I'm not keen on this, after I've had to field numerous questions.  M was even teased mercilessly at his last school because he didn't have a father.  Then when I talk to him and he tells me that he was making that sort of money, while I was scraping by and my mother was ruining my credit, really makes me mad.  He was telling me a couple of weeks ago that he's paying over $1200 in rent, and would like to move into a house, but he has too many debts for that.  He keeps throwing this money issue in my face.  He told me that his girlfriend (who has 4 kids) had her tubes tied and doesn't want anymore kids, and that M might be his only progeny.  He said that his girlfriend never knew her dad, even though he lived just twenty minutes away.  She decided not to try to pursue a relationship with him, and he didn't want that for M.

While his words sound nice, and all, the sperm donor hasn't really offered me anything.  He's offered to help me get a better job, a place to live, etc.  But even when I said could you talk to your friend at the highway patrol, I'm interested in relocating, he never did.  So, it's sort of like what I get with my mom.  He promises me all these things and never follows through.  I doubt he'd follow through on child support either.

[lighter]

You can either go through the proper channels to get child support awarded.... something i know nothing about, orassume sperm donor will continue to give what he's been giving. 

Nothing.


I'd do some research and figure it out, on acount'a you never know.

 

[Ami]

Dear Tay,
  I think that you should follow your heart with your M . I can hear that your heart wants NC.It seems clear from your posts.
  I think that you want to get child support.I think that you should for M. As he gets older, you will have more expenses. There will probably be more things that he wants to do( sports etc).
 That is what I" hear "you saying,as far as I can tell.                    Love  Ami

((((((((((((((((Tayana))))))))))))))))))))

[finding peace]

Hi Tay,

You said:

So I have to decide if I want to try to establish limited contact and learn to be able to say, "I'm not going to discuss this with you."  "It's none of your business" and similar things, or if I just want to let the whole thing go. 

I went through a period where I had limited contact (at that time didn't realize what I was doing, I just didn't want to be around them) and it never worked.  I've considered trying limited contact with my NM since I went NC - but every time the thought pops up, I ask myself why?  Why would I want that?  The answer is always the same - because I am hoping that this time it will be better - maybe I can finally get through to her.  As soon as I realize this, the desire for limited contact goes away - as I re-realize that she will never change and all I am doing is setting myself up for more pain. 

So I guess I am wondering what you would get from the limited contact with your mother.  Is there any benefit at all - for you and M?  And what would the price of that benefit be?  (I am with the T on this one!)

As far as child support, I don't know the legalities, but since you are in a good financial situation I would consider the pros and cons of child support.  You most likely can get it and might be able to get it retroactively for all the years he didn't pay.  But, is there a potential cost to receiving child support?  Will he have visitation rights and insist on them?  Would he be a good person for M to be around, or would this cause him more pain?  A sometimes there father - comes into his life and then leaves. 

If you are pretty sure he would not insist on visitations then I would go after every cent you can.   I would take that money and invest it for M - it could pay for college or help him when he is older.  I don't see this as a revenge or greed type thing at all (not that you were suggesting that) - just IMO this is all about financial security for M.

Again though, I would consider the consequences (would this be opening a huge can of worms)?

Peace 

BTW - really like your T!!

[alone48]

Just a little experience, I let my ex get away with no child support for over ten years (2 girls) and then took minimal at the end. My youngest daughter very much resents that her father didn't contribute. I don't think it was the money issue so much as not acknowledging them. Though you do need to be prepared for the fact if he pays, he probably will come around more. I use to work for child support and the men seemed to think of it like a car payment. If I'm paying I should drive it, though $$ and visitation are two different things. This may be totally different from your situation, just wanted to share. GOod luck.

[Iphi]

hiya tay    I like your T too. 

He promises me all these things and never follows through.  I doubt he'd follow through on child support either.

Part of my job for a large corporation is to receive garnishment related documents from county agencies and supply the agencies with the information they need to garnish employee paychecks for child support payments.  Nothing voluntary about it.  If he doesn't have the follow through, the Court and the agency do. 

You could put the money straight into a 529 education investment/savings plan for M's college, which may also give you a state tax deduction (maybe, depending on your state and the 529 you choose).

[lighter]

Iphi.... you rock, lol.

[Hopalong]

Tay,
Money sounds good.
Older I get more I realize it's damn important.
Would make this life much gentler than it is.

That aside, only one thing I think is critical to know, and your wise T could help you think it through:

What kind of person is he?
I gather he's immature.
But I mean, does that mean he's so selfish he'd hurt a child, as in, make appointments to take him to a ball game and then just not turn up? Or is it just lack of enough life experience to grow him up?
What were his own parents like? Does he like and enjoy his parents, rather than just love them?
Would they become grandparents to M? Do you know them? What sort of people are they?
(If good folks, might be a nice time for M to discover someone else wants to love him. If they do.)
Is there a buried-father in him, who really wants to know and love his boy?
Is he mature enough to do his homework on mild A-spectrum disorders and work with M sensitively?
Is there a chance he'll appear then disappear, breaking M's heart?
Does he have a sense of humor?
Does he want M because he legitimately wants to know his son? He might?
Or is it a badge, just about gender?
Can you be friends with him, setting aside the past, and work cooperatively for M's good?

That's all...
All worth working out the answer to, imo.
Seems to me if there's a chance of a good-enough Dad, would do M good.
If he's a bad apple, rotten selfish, not worth it.
Just human, might be a good thing?
But important to know.
To figure out with T's help what your deep inner answer is to these questions, and respect it.

love,
Hops

[Leah]

To figure out with T's help what your deep inner answer is to these questions, and respect it.

Appreciate and respect those words of wisdom, Hops

Sincerely

Love,

Leah

[tayana]

Sorry, I haven't had a chance to respond to anyone.  Yesterday was a crazy day.  I had quite the adventure last night too.

FP, the only benefit of limited contact would be that I'd get to see my dad.  I'm actually fine with never speaking to my mom again, but M still wants to see her.  I had considered visiting this weekend, after she'd had all off her biopsies and such, but I've changed my mind.  I don't want to go out there alone, and I don't feel ready to see either of them.  My T put it this way:  Why do I want to go there where I'm going to be snubbed and ridiculed?  Why would I do that unless I'm hoping things are going to change, even though I know they won't?  That's the question she asked me.  Then she told me that that part of my life was over, and there was no going back.  When I said that my mom has gotten worse as she's gotten older, she said that people who are emotionally sick do get worse with age, those that aren't quite as sick sometimes get better.  We came back to this idea several times in the session.  Why do I want to reestablish contact when I'm not going to gain anything from it?  It's that a part of me still hopes that I'll be able to have a real relationship with her, even though the rational part of me realizes that it's never going to happen.

Onto the other issue . . .

FP, I've considered the very thing you suggested.  That sperm donor would demand visitation, and possible a custody hearing could ensue.  I wouldn't put M through that.  I'm not in the position where I can't live on my own.  I have money in the bank, a good salary, and although I can't live extravagantly, we can certainly afford a little fun now and then.  I don't NEED the money, and even if I got it, I'd be just as likely to save it for M and not use it.

I'm afraid sperm donor will continue to be exactly what he has been: a sperm donor.  He talks a lot, but he's still not mature and in my opinion not really serious about this.  Hops brought up some excellent questions.

What kind of person is he?
I gather he's immature.
But I mean, does that mean he's so selfish he'd hurt a child, as in, make appointments to take him to a ball game and then just not turn up? Or is it just lack of enough life experience to grow him up?
What were his own parents like? Does he like and enjoy his parents, rather than just love them?
Would they become grandparents to M? Do you know them? What sort of people are they?
(If good folks, might be a nice time for M to discover someone else wants to love him. If they do.)
Is there a buried-father in him, who really wants to know and love his boy?
Is he mature enough to do his homework on mild A-spectrum disorders and work with M sensitively?
Is there a chance he'll appear then disappear, breaking M's heart?
Does he have a sense of humor?
Does he want M because he legitimately wants to know his son? He might?
Or is it a badge, just about gender?
Can you be friends with him, setting aside the past, and work cooperatively for M's good?

What kind of person is he?  I have to say, I don't really know.  Aside from a few emails and two phone calls, I haven't interacted with over the last ten years.  He's a preacher's son, but he's strayed from his faith.  Most of what I know about him is what I remember from when we first met.  I know nothing about his family or parents.  I've never met them.

He has done some reading about mild a-spectrum disorders, but he thinks they are all bunk.  He think's M's issues are from living with my parents.  While I don't think that living situation has helped, he's not living with a kid who has panic attacks over the weirdest things, needs constant reinforcement to get things done, and is at least two years behind maturity wise.  M's smart, but his social skills are severely lacking.  Sperm Donor is afraid that his "difference" has been used to victimize him, and while my mom did do that to an extent, I don't.  I treat him just as if he were "normal," the only difference is that we might have to find some creative solutions for things.   We have to be very creative sometimes. 

He seems to be reacting out of guilt, not so much because he has a child and wants to know him.  It's more like he's realized he might not have any other children, and now he wants to claim the one he didn't want.

I don't know that I could be friends with him, honestly.  I don't trust easily or very well, and I have serious issues with this.  I don't trust him.  So anytime he tells me anything or promises me something, I say fine, but in my heart I'm saying, "I'll believe it when I see it."

Here is an excerpt from some of his emails to give an idea of some of his ideas:

As to the topic of gay/lesbian families, I don't have much to offer that
discussion. That is, to say, I've never actually felt the need to form an
opinion on it. My boss is a lesbian. Many of her friends are gay. I have had
a few gay and lesbian friends over the years. While I've come to the
conclusion that most people (gay/straight/in denial) make lousy parents and
worse marriages, I can't see why sexual orientation would disqualify someone
from being a good parent or role-model.

If you want help finding a place to live or work, let me know. I will help.
If you look as close as St. Louis, I might even be able to do more. If you
get into a jam while trying to execute your plan, call me before you do
anything drastic... like not going through with it.

You really have to try and dump the self-pity talk. I'm not saying you
aren't entitled to pity in this situation (believe me, it's a shitty deal
with your mom), but I'm thinking of your mental health here. You have to
keep focusing on moving forward. Always taking another step.

Whether you take baby steps or giant steps, you're moving toward your goal.
Don't let anything stop you from pushing on.

Okay, okay, I'll can the motivational speech. I just hate to hear you using
all this self-deprecating language. It really makes it sound like you want
to give up. Even if that's not true... it's like telling a skinny person
that they're fat. Enough times and they'll be re-examining themselves in the
mirror.

His emails sometimes really hack me off.  My T only asked me to consider the idea of pursuing child support, and perhaps giving my attorney a call to ask what I'd have to do.  Iphi, I do like your idea.

FP, Iphi, I like my T too.  She's really great.

[Ami]

Dear Tay,
 Maybe I am not "all there",but I really like him from his e mail. He sounds sensitive and sweet. I was expecting' Tarzan",with two words(lol) from how you were describing him.
  He sounds like he really cares and he could be a friend to you and M.
   Maybe,I am wrong.If so, compost what does not fit.                  Love   Ami

[Hopalong]

For what it's worth, Tay...
he sounds like a decent person to me too.

A friend. Or at least not an enemy.

Might share those with your T?

hugs,
Hops

[tayana]

Hops, I want to believe he's a decent person.  I just can't seem to do it.

I seem to have this deep seated problem where I tell people I believe what they say, but deep down I really don't, not until they actually follow through.

Example:

My brother says, "I'll call you tomorrow and let you know."  I say okay, but I don't think he will call.  Sometimes he will, sometimes he won't.  I never expect a call though, not until my phone actually rings.

Or Sperm Donor has said, "I'll call you on X day."  And he doesn't.  Which just confirms what I already think, that he isn't going to call so why bother?

I don't know how to get past that.  I want to believe in the basic decency of people, but when it gets right down to it, the only person I really trust is myself.