Is It Really O.K. to Let N Thoughts and Emotions Just Go By--Part 4 (LOL)

[Ami]

I am so sorry to be like a dog with a bone on this topic.
 I have made so much progress and feel  much calmer  inside.
 I can let feelings of selfishness go. Before, they would plummet me into depression.(I really did not even KNOW what was giving me a depression,).
  I can see "ugly" thoughts go by. However,I still feel  uncomfortable with really seeing that your thoughts or feelings do not MAKE you bad".
  It is simply a conditioning, like being brainwashed by a cult.
  I see that my M really could not help the way that she thought. WHO would be so self rejecting if they had a choice.? I see that she did the best she could within her limitations. She gave me good things, too.
  If anyone is  sick of me bringing up the "same" topic again(in different guises),please just ignore my thread.I really would prefer that than someone  saying,"Just get over it."
  I am not trying to be purposely "dense". I am just trying to find that place of peace inside myself where I can be without guilt.
  Thank you so much for all the help you always give .                   Love  Ami

[Leah]

Oh, Dear ((((( Ami ))))))

You just keep on talking it through as much or as little as your heart needs till you get to your destination.

What is it that are you struggling with first and foremost?

Love, Leah

[Ami]

Dear Leah,
  Thanks for asking ,so sweetly. With trepidation,I wrote this thread.I could hear people saying,"Get over it. We already told you the answers". I think that I 'know" all the answers.
  It just takes time for them to sink in.
  Leah, here is an example of how I feel like I am a "bad" person. I am starting to see how my H could not "help" his behavior patterns(in a way). His F was a bad N(worse than my M)
My H "thought" that if you provided financially, you could act any way that wanted. I came from a family where I "thought" that if you had material things , then you could not be considered "abused". So, we were a perfect fit(lol)
 I have compassion for him. He really did do what he thought was right.I LET him abuse me. It was NOT my fault (in the sense that I could help it at  the time). However, I LET him abuse me until I got strong enough. Then,I didn't let him, anymore.then, he stopped(basically)
  He really didn't "know" how to act differently and I didn't either. Maybe this does not make sense when I put it so black and white  like that,but I believe it.
   So, this brings me up to why I think I am "bad". He is having heart problems. He has had different procedures. Now, he is asking the doctor to do another one,but the doctor doesn't want to.However,my H keeps telling me what to do when he dies.
  Anyway, here is my problem. I feel "numb" inside about it. I act nicely.but in my feelings,I don't feel like I care. I think that I really do "care" b/c we have known each other for so long,but a part of me doesn't.
  That is what I mean about feeling like I am a"bad" person.                          Ami

[Gabben]

SO, this brings me up to why I think I am "bad". He is having heart problems. He has had different procedures. Now, he is asking the doctor to do another one,but the doctor doesn't want to.However,my H keeps telling me what to do when he dies.
  Anyway, here is my problem. I feel "numb" inside about it. I act nicely.but in my feelings,I don't feel like I care. I think that I really do "care" b/c we have known each other for so long,but a part of me doesn't.
  That is what I mean about feeling like I am a"bad" person.                          Ami

Hi Ami,

Could the numbness be shock or a defense against your grief?  If you were not a caring person you would not be questioning this?

((((AMI))))

Love,
Lise


P.S.
We all have selfish thoughts and self-centered desires, the best way that I have ever found to overcome selfishness is to spend time helping others (you do that) with absolutely no reward for self (very hard to practice -- N's can always spin an act of sacrifice and make it about them).  Making sacrafices of time for others -- if our intentions are pure and we are spiritually fit then this this kind of selfless service can unhardwire the self-centered thinking that is really just our little child inside responding to our unmet emotional needs.

I was taught by a wise spiritual woman once to place God first, others second, and ourselves last in every situation of life.

Lise

[Hopalong]

Hi Ami,
This is going to sound pretty stark after Lise's lovely answer, but the truth is I understand.

I love my mother but it's become an abstraction, rather than a feeling.
It's a decision and a moral choice.
I treat her with compassion and touch her gently.
But I minimize my time with her and am grateful to escape her when I can.

I dread her suffering because I dread anyone's suffering.
I comfort her all I can when she's ill.
But it's not with sobs, or because my heart is wrenched to see her so (although it will be...that happens to me every time she is suffering or in pain...as opposed to anticipating it, like your H).

When I think of her demise I am mildly curious about whether I will feel anything acute, and I am certain I will feel unspeakable (hmm...) relief, freedom. Maybe some fear. The Role will be gone. Maybe I'll grieve all over again for the mother I could not have, but I don't think so. Did that. Done. Glad.

For all the convolutions of my past, present and future feelings about her...I am convinced, deeply finally convinced, that I am a good person even though I don't feel anguish at the thought of her death. I'm pretty numb. I'm just worn out. Sick to the bone of caregiving, even though others have done more and harder.

We plumbed our relationship as deeply as it would go and I am not confused about whether I found the bottom. I did, so now I float in the level it is. And don't contribute much emotionally, other than detached compassion.

So I think it sounds pretty normal, to me, to feel little about your H even though you think you "should". Abusive people tend not to inspire long-term passionate devotion, though they may be cared for devotedly.

That help at all? Hope so.

xo
Hops

[Leah]

Dear ((( Ami)))

I don't perceive you as being a 'bad' person.

For having the feeling of 'numb' -- that's not being a 'bad' person

That's being an honest person, someone who is explaining how one truly feels, which is admirably greater that putting on an act of 'falsehood'

Just think of a professional nurse caring for someone with compassion.

Compassion and caring is not the same as 'passionate devotion'

Hops has explained it far better than I feel able, and also, has first hand experience in compassionate caring, which I perceive to be of a most professional caring nature.  And very much love in action.

Love is more that a feeling in any case, it is expressed in action, there are four types of love, as I have previously written about here on the board.


However, only you yourself know of your feelings for your husband.  There is a possibility that you may have gone into a protective numb mode; regarding thoughts of facing separation and loss.


Love & Hugs,

Leah

[wiltay]

Ami, now I feel guilty for saying what I did, (or phrasing it the way I did).  As far as I'm concerned I feel that we are ALL going over the same topics over and over again, looking at all the angles and all the feelings involved until we are at last able to find some resolution of them in our own complex hearts.  I don't think you are doing anything differently from what we are all doing.

Bill

[Ami]

Dear Bill,
  You honored me with your other response---not  "guilted "me. You "knew" my thinking process  and  helped me to see how I heal. I realized that you described it perfectly and it helped me to see that it is just 'my way"
   As you said, we all approach healing(and everything else) so differently.
   Thank you for caring enough to help me know myself better.                Love  Ami

[Ami]

Thank you Lise, Hops and Leah for your caring and supportive responses.  It means a lot to me            Love    Ami

[isittoolate]

Hi Ami,

Sure. If it feels right!

Izzy

[Ami]

Walk on by.

[Iphi]

I don't think you are a bad person at all Ami.  You guys have been through a lot together and have lots of history.  You can see how you were drawn together.  You have built lives together to the extent you have your sons who sound like great guys.  All of these things are good and useful purposes of marriage, but there's been a lot of water under the bridge and you know the rough underside of it all.  You know similarly, with my mom, I don't have a lot of strong feelings about it all anymore.  As Hops says - I don't have a lot of confusion about where the bottom of that relationship is and it is what it is - which is... not all that much and not what ideally, or even marginally, or humbly, I might like. 

Another thing that occurred to me is how people in my family will create or intensify problems to create a sense of urgency in other people (such as me).  It worked and it worked and it worked until it did not work any more.  Many times it is "crying wolf."  But now, even when it is real and serious - I just can't get exercised about it.  I have no way of knowing if there is crying wolf going on or if your H has a history of crying wolf, but it just reminded me of how it is with my 'people.'

Also, I wonder if the thoughts you are calling 'selfish' are actually 'selfish' or if that is just what you were taught to call them.  Does that make any sense.  I feel like that could be said better.  I will maybe try again tomorrow? 

[Kimberli63]

I am new here so I hope I haven't missed the point. I read something the other day that made sense. I am not sure that I am at that stage yet but something you said makes me think you are. Here it is forgiveness. You are part way there  because you said that you know she did not knowingly choose that type of behaviour. If you are able to accept that it wasn't her fault, maybe by going to the next stage of forgiveness, you will find what you need to get rid of that bad feeling and numbness.

Forgiveness starts with acceptance. I go by  the work on death and dying done by Elisabeth Kubler-Ross. This isn't a physical death but it is the end (death) of  a relationship. I call the process DABDA, so I can remember the stages: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance or forgiveness. Every loss seems to need us to go through these stages of recovery with the end stage being forgiveness  if it is not a physical loss, or acceptance if it is.

Hope this helps and doesn't put me offside. Kimberli

[Lupita]

Hey Ami, how about a picture of you and your doggy? LOL

[Ami]

Dear Lupita,
  When I can figure out the digital camera ,you will have a picture of Henrietta (Standard Poodle-13) and Mimi(Yorkie-14 months)
                               Love   Ami