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Normal Mothering

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Less:
Good idea to start a new thread -and a challenging topic. What is "normal" mothering and did you get any!?  I was watching a mother racoon with her babies yesterday. The babies were really struggling to keep up with mom. I was amazed to see her continually go back and check on their progress, move on a little then circle back again. That looked like good mothering to me! Gentle encouragement and guidance.

With the proliferation of parenting books and messed up kids I sometimes get the feeling that there isn't much natural parenting instinct left. It's a really tough job ( it certainly was for me) But there are some basics that most people should be able to manage most of the time if they don't have a full blown PD of some sort.  MM: "Either you are a good photographer or you have a really good camera." eee god! Do you think she thought she was being funny? Do you think she actually thought she was complimenting you?   What did you say, if anything? It's very familiar and in my family anyone who couldn't take the "dry wit" of the family as it was called ( I prefer caustic witlessness) was 'too sensitive'. I never said anything but am building up to say: "What do you mean by that?' "That was a very hurtful remark - did you realize that?"  Is it possible to educate N'.s  I wonder.  I guess  I've always  thought that silence minimizes the damage but I want  to try something else.

  Validation - it's so important, up there with water and food I think. and perhaps the most important way that we convey our love.  

Shixie: "They are counting on your weakness, Don't become their prey." Oh, the truth of that.  How much of this I wonder operates at an unconscious level - they do things to feed the black hole.
 
Flower: Absolutely we are survivors - so far from childish - rehashing unresolved and confusing childhood events has helped me grow into strength I never knew I had.

MM -your last question - I think that may be happening to me right now. Early days but something is different - oh yes, me. I'm stronger.
Less

Anonymous:
There is "childish" and there is "child-like."

Sorry this is going to be dry:

Because of early formational interactions with N parents, we have pockets of "child-like" cognition. Some of our neurological development was traumatized/frozen and some cognition/emotion remains in a child-like state. This could cause problems with becoming triggered easily and reacting impulsively rather than thinking of options (which is more adult and less child-like).

And there is "child-like" as in an innocent, imaginative, creative, spontanaeity. This is something we don't want to lose or reject.

bunny

mighty mouse:
Hi All,

Bunny, I wonder if any of that child like cognition that's frozen in time can be unfrozen? It seems to be getting much better for me since my split with NMom.

Les(s), regarding your question of if my Mom thought she was complimenting me or making a funny......I don't think either one. I think it was her (I'm going to say unconscious) one-down manship. I say that because she doesn't seem to remember anything mean she says. She is very clever at honing in on something that may be important to a person and exploiting it. She doesn't seem to know she does it. I think there is a weird disconnect there. Maybe Bunny can elucidate on this more if it's a common characteristic of Ns. And it seems like it is from some of the posts I've read.

Flower and Shixie, I think you are right. I need to keep seperate for now and maybe forever.

Les(s), you mentioned on another thread that your Mom calls you names like stupid and moron and that's she starting to now call herself those names. I'd say she was calling herself those names all along (projecting them on you). And maybe the Ns live a long time because it's their punishment to live in their perfect little boxes (good visual). It must be tiring to always maintain a facade of perfection. For a normal person engaging in  that kind of activity it would eat away at the soul I would think. Maybe they were normal once. It ALMOST makes me feel sorry for them.

MM

el123:
Wow, MM, your mother sounds and awful lot like mine!!  It was eerie reading your post as it sounded just like my own mother.  The only difference being that mine was also physically abusive.  In a way that was a good thing as it made the abuse so OBVIOUS.  But with you it's more subtle but just as insidious.


--- Quote ---There are times when I felt that my Mom really did care about me. But usually as soon as I thought that, she'd say something with a "twist".
--- End quote ---

my mom does the exact same thing.  I'll tell her about my kids and she'll throw in how my nephew and niece (by my sister who she favors over me) do something 'better'.


--- Quote ---She also is very competitive...I tell her about my birds..her birds are better or more prolific. She had 8 kids, I have none
--- End quote ---


Mine too.  Her 'parenting' was always better than whatever I'm doing (yeah sure mom, slapping me around, whipping me with belts, brooms, brushes, etc and calling me evil is great parenting).  Also, like yours, mine has 9 kids.


--- Quote ---Now those might seem like petty things but they are a constant in our relationship.
--- End quote ---


They do not sound petty at all to me.  And I can honestly say that these subtleties are probably the most destructive as they make you question yourself (i.e.  am I the crazy one here?).  With the more obvious abuse you don't question who's wrong.  I always found this type of stuff more destructive than physical abuse.


--- Quote ---She really can't seem to differentiate between us kids anyway. I spent a lifetime trying to differentiate myself from the masses (7 other sibs). But no matter how good I did my chores, looked after the younger ones, made her creative things that I would put on her bed as a present, she would always lump us in one big mass (called YOU KIDS).
--- End quote ---


I did the same thing!  And my mother always called us "you kids" too!


--- Quote ---Has anyone else seperated and come back and things were better (meaning you had the skills to deal - not that the N changed - I know that doesn't happen)
--- End quote ---


Yes.  I moved away for five years.  When I came back I was stronger and able to deal better with her.  I'm still getting stronger, though.  My goal is to minimize contact and to let her attacks slide off of me like rain on a duck.  I know that it's possible.  Take care, -E

Jaded911:
You know, I pondered on this one.  Normal mothering to me is the complete opposite of what I had.  That makes it very hard to understand why some people want to have children.  Normal mothering to me is sacrificing anything and everything you have to make your children your number one priority.  You let them win every now and then when you play games with them because it makes them feel like a winner.  A hell of a mother gets angry when they lose.  A normal mother would sacrifice their life for their children.  There isnt a person on this earth that is more important to me then my children.  I would give me life for them and I would expect that most mothers would.  

I can speak for myself, when push came to shove with my mom, she shoved her children to save her self.  She would feed us kids to the wolves rather then fight them off.  I actually know that my mom was not a N, she just did not have a maternal bone in her body.  I have told her how i felt about her as a mother and I also shared with her what it was like to be an eight year old when you realized that you were a burden, not a blessing.  I think in a way that saved my soul.  I never depended on her as a mother so I was never let down.  

It felt very good to say my peace with her when I got older.  My mom once told me that I would regret how I treated her when she died.  It did not take a second for my response and I can honestly say that it was how I felt for many years about that woman.  I simply stated to her,"when you die, I am sure I will shed some tears, but ya know what?  Those tears will be for the mother I should have had, not the mother you couldnt even attempt to be.  You were never a mother to me, you were someone who gave me the will to be a better person.  I vowed I would never be the person you are, and that gave me all the guidance I needed."

Of course, lol, she then told me that us kids never thought that if she would have better kids, she would have been a better mother.  My reply back, you are one sick pup lady.  I dont even call her mom, I call her Judy and it feels so natural.  When the woman attempts to hug me, it makes my skin crawl.  

So to hope that your mother would love you like you know you deserved, well, simply put, it is not in her realm.  Some people have very little maternal instincts.  Giving birth does not make you a mother, giving nurturing earns that title.  

I can also tell you that the further away that woman is from me, the better off I am.  The minute she enters the room that I am in, my mood literally changes for the worse.  She gave birth to me and it was not by my choice.  Believe me I had to hear the horrible details for my entire 39yrs.  I hope you can one day feel grateful that she gave you life, but I also hope that you realize that she cursed the life she gave you by her lack of mothering.  Let her go as a mother and I promise you ll find yourself.

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