Greatest Fear

[cats paw]

Hops,

  I don't have anything to add to the responses from the Wise Women to a Wise Woman.

  Just want to gently touch your face with a little paw.

Cat

[tayana]

((((((Hops))))))

I've had this fear too.  I have a hard time knowing what's normal behavior and what's abnormal with M. Sometimes he can be so self-centered, and then he surprises me.

I don't know how old your daughter is, so maybe she's going through normal behavior for this particular stage of her life.  Just thinking that she knows better because she's been listening to you and is just stating her independence?  I'm not sure. 

I agree with CB, Hops.  Don't save her from herself.  My mother did that to me. She was always jumping in so I couldn't make a mistake.  She'll learn lessons if she has to fall on her face a few times, and she'll probably be grateful eventually for you letting her mess up.  LEtting her make her own mistakes, and not doing her work for her will make her stronger in the end.

It's impossible to parent without feeling guilty.  I think that's part of the job, just like I think it's part of the job for us to try to protect our kids as much as possible.  Part of the job too, though, is letting them grow up and not infantilizing them just because we don't want to let our babies go.  Eventually, they  have to leave the nest and strike out on their own, and then they'll make all sorts of mistakes.  All we can do is hope we can give them the tools that they don't mess up too badly, and if they do come and ask for help, then we can always give it. 

My mom stifled me, and I resented it horribly.  When I was in my early 20's, I did things just because I could and she told me I couldn't.  She'd tell me I couldn't quit my job, so I would.  She told me I could do a particular job, I did it anyway.  I was a little **tch.  I thought I knew everything.  I think it's normal.  I grew up eventually. 

Love to you,

T

 

[lighter]

::afraid to contemplate the subject of my children growing past small::

That's another chapter..... lots of research and learning from those that go before.

Into that great unknown.... Hops and CB.... you go first.

[seasons]

Loving our children can be so painful. You work so hard on this precious relationship. I am sending you a hug full of love.

May the New Year bring you both closer, filled with more days of peace and love.

oxox seasons

p.s. she is still so young, immature etc. I remember how I acted without much thought, to quickly and not thoughtful enough. Let her grow and blossom and hope she will.

[Hops guest]

Dears:
I would like to recap a lineup of such good comfort and sound advice--it's really amazing when I look at it all together, a bolstering armada of help!

Bella, thanks for saying it's not necessarily a reflection of what's in her heart. I think you're right. Although she is a Viking Amazon Pirate, she will dive off the ship to rescue a turtle (if not this turtle)  

Leah, thanks for being so compassionate and perceptive about how she was feeling. I am grateful.

Lighter, proactive is a very helpful thing to say...I am going to think more on it. Thank you. And thanks for just your company and the :: . I don't know what :: means but I feel happy when I see it!  

Beth, thanks for reminding me to detach some. It is hard and maybe antithetical, but I remember when I had to pull back like that after another bout with her, the transition to changing my stance was painful but I was happier afterward -- not so much with her, but with myself. It may not be "anti-parenting" to detach, just an evolution into a healthier way of perceiving her/us.

CB, busted! You're exactly right. I feel so much distress at her distress that part of the reason I rescue her is to rescue myself from my own discomfort. Thanks for that reality check. I need to get a grip.

Tay, thanks for reminding me the goal is NOT to hold her too close, but to let her fly. She's literally NOT "my baby" and I should stop responding as though she were a child. (And then maybe she'll act less like one.)

Amber, thanks for sharing about your daughters. I was heartened by your mention that even Daughter A (my D's long-lost twin!) is sometimes in a good place. That's true for my D too. And she has more growing up to do. So more time for things to ameliorate some. Not quite fixed in granite, yet.

Seasons, thanks so much for your compassion and understanding. So comforting to just have to see how I was feeling; your kindness is balm.

Now this--she called again today, lots of faxing back and forth as I cosign her lease (her credit's trashed from way back when her Dad died and she wasn't functioning sanely. She called to tell me there are additional fees being required of her because of her credit rating and a large pet fee. I bit my tongue and did not offer to help. She hemmed and hawed and paused significantly, and I did not offer.

I think this is what y'all meant by not rescuing her. I found it hard, but given recent exchanges and current financial strain, I think I did the right thing by not stepping up to add more debt for myself.

Ooof. That really is difficult, but I did it.

I am so very very grateful to all of you.
THANK YOU.

love,
Hops

[Hopalong]

Dear Cat's Paw,
I can't believe I left out the loving little cat-kiss, which touched me very much. Thank you!!

love
Hops

[cats paw]

Hops,

  Brava.  Now go massage your tum-tum with warmth till the ooof  turns into an aaah of knowing you did the right thing-
  for both of you.

Cat

[tayana]

Hops,

Good for you.  You did the right thing, even though it hurts.  I know it's not the same, but . . .

I'd alwasy checked over M's work and made him correct things if it was wrong so that he got all A's until this year.  I decided this year I wasn't going to do it anymore.  He was going to learn to be responsible for his work.  If he didn't bring something home, he had to suffer the consequences.  No, he's not getting all A's, but he has learned to be more careful.  I noticed he's started filling out full sections on his tests instead of writing one five word sentence.  He acts like he cares a little more about school, because I'm not going to rescue him by proofing and checking his work for mistakes.  It took a lot of stress off both of us, and we don't spend all night doing homework.

I think we all have to learn to stand on our own, even our babies.  No matter how much it hurts us.

Does this make sense?  I'm not really sure.

[Lupita]

Daer Hop, I was going to tell you that you D might be ressentful of the time that you were nicer to your husband (her stepfather) than to her. Or so I understood. But I do not know the facts. You might have been wonderful with her. So, I changed my mind because I have been a very devoted mother, been divorced for seventeen years, no boyfriends, just a few dates here and there, and never brougth a man to live in our house because I did not want another person to make my son uncomrotable. Yet, many times he sounds ungrateful, talks back, is unconsiderate, does not listen to me, etc. Still he is a good boy, no smoke, no drugs, good grades in college. Etc. So, if your daughter is not doing drugs, is going to school, is working, never been arrested, going for a master degree. What else can we ask from our children?
I guess we want our children to comfort us but the rain comes from up to down no viceverse.
My son went to our country against my will, with his girlfriend, spending the little money he got together, if his car brakes, if he has an accident, if he fails to pay his car payment, I cosigned for him, etc.
My point here is that we are lucky to have healthy children who work hard. I do not know what I am saying. I want to give you consolation and I guess I am not doing a good job.
If my post is not helpful, disregard it. I am doing it with the best of intentions beacuse you are a wonderful person.

[Hopalong]

You are doing a great job Lup!
Very perceptive and insightful.
About El Stupido Stepdaddo, and the rest of it too.

I love the expression, the rain falls down not up...what a great image for parental love and responsibility.

thank you!

(((((Lupita)))))

xo
Hops

[reallyME]

Well Hops, although some people shudder at the idea of giving people labels, I have no problem with either being labeled or giving them, so I'm going to agree mostly with CB's post. (except the part about "i hate labels")

CB: Even if she's an N (I hate labels), I don't think they are as hopeless a might be assumed.  You just have to set strong boundaries and stick with them.  Dear Hopsy, if she says your idea is irrational and senseless, then let her have her opinion.  Don't go on and make the call that you advised her to make.  Let her live with consequences.  Hard, huh?  But it's really the only way.  Plus--if it's important (for some perverse reason) that she NOT take your advice, having you prove her wrong will just prolong her attitude.

I believe your daughter does show narcissistic thinking.  My daughter has treated me the same way.  I do think the best thing for us to do, is let them act stupid and selfish, and keep them in prayer as they "reap what they sow."  This world, for the most part, is not fond of catering to self-centered, egotistic folk, although i have seen some people pretty "snowed" by the N's I've come in contact with.  Just let go of your need to "own" any of her reactions, because honestly, it's not worth it in the longrun.  Just focus on you and your life and let her fend for herself until and unless she is going to respect your right to disagree and see things differently.

My children call me "paranoid" all the time, because I AM!  I AM afraid that if the goof around in the kitchen, while holding a knife, that they might fall on it.  I am afraid that if they are throwing paper airplanes, someone's eye might get poked out.  I am afraid that if they leave their sister in the tub alone, she might drown (it has happened to someone I know), I am afraid that if they try to balance on that fence, they could fall and become impaled.

Am I paranoid? YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! But my children are alive to show results of my PARANOIA...thank GOD, someone was!

BE concerned, Hops, but realize that your daughter wants to give an appearance of "knowing all without mom's help" in the end.  It's just how they are...with my own daughter trying to be as different from me as possible and bragging that it SHALL be done with her own daughter...this we shall see, right?

hugs,
~Laura

[gratitude28]

Hops,
Can I point out you made an excuse for your daughter? You said she ruined her credit because of her dad dying. Now I know that must have been a horrible time for her, but she made a choice. I am sure that you were there for her, as were others. Please remember that she does make choices and you have to hold her accountable (as you are doing).
I think, as I know I have said before, that she will respect you much more if she does not see you as a tool for her convenience. Be strong!!!!!!!!
Lots of love,
Beth

[lighter]

Lighter, proactive is a very helpful thing to say...I am going to think more on it. Thank you. And thanks for just your company and the :: . I don't know what :: means but I feel happy when I see it!  

I think this is what y'all meant by not rescuing her. I found it hard, but given recent exchanges and current financial strain, I think I did the right thing by not stepping up to add more debt for myself.

Ooof. That really is difficult, but I did it.

I am so very very grateful to all of you.
THANK YOU.

love,
Hops

::explaining to Hops about the :: thing, lol::    I put actions inside those :: thingys, lol.
I guess that maybe part of people not understanding 65% of what I write, lol?

So glad you stepped back with your daughter and provided her and yourself with some boundaries that will help her realize she's not a child anymore, she's an adult, responsible for herself and anything you help her with...... is a gift.

And a hardwon gift of sacrifice, at that.

I don't suppose we do our children any favors when we save them from getting their little noses bloodied, at every turn.

I remember when I was in my early 20's, still living at home, just left school...... my father gave me a little speech and sat back to see how I did.

I was going into business for myself ( designing and producing Point of Purchase Sales and Adverstising.......)  which was his business too.

He said.... "Go out and start cold calling on the accounts that are least important.... go out and get your nose bloody.  By the time you've worked your way up to the important accounts..... you'll know what you're doing."  

Talk about being sick and (a pregnant Holiday Inn, non client beat the crap out of me, but good NOT LITERALLY, lol) learning how to field the really tough questions, find the answers and figure out how to answer all questions in the future.

Thank God he let me experience, grow and learn for myself.  Your daughter will some day HAVE to depend on herself.... and the best gift you can give her is self reliance.

If she still really really needs to come to you and ask for help..... she'll have learned something about gratitude and being more humble.... which are very important too.

You're a good mama and fine human being.  

::whispering::  And your teaching her to set future boundaries for herself.  

::nodding::  You're brilliant and I learn from watching you ((Hops))


[/quote]

[reallyME]

Wow, Lighter, this was so true and poignant:

If she still really really needs to come to you and ask for help..... she'll have learned something about gratitude and being more humble.... which are very important too.

The thing that stuck out to me with both your daughter and mine, Hops, is that lack of gratitude and humility, as Lighter said.  My daughter feels ENTITLED to having people give to her, like she is some sort of Prima Donna.  Her attitude is "why WOULDN'T people give me things.  After all, everyone ADORES me and I know it."  The casual onlooker finds her words/attitude humorous, even precocious.  They dont' realize that she is not playin...she really BELIEVES THAT WAY!

If I say "Anna, you look nice today," her response is usually "uh huh. I know I do.  It's about time you realized that."  Or  "Of course I do.  I look nice everyday." 

Then, if I try to correct her, by saying, "Let's try another response, Anna.  How about "Thank you for the compliment," or "That's so kind of you."  She will look at me with a condescending glare and say "Annnnnnnnnyway..."

Some people told me "oh that's just part of being a teenager."  I do not agree with that at all.  My daughter is narcissistic and only GOD can get through to her.

Hops, does your daughter have that same self-righteous attitude?  If so, she is definitely showing narcissism, whether people want to "label" or not.  It is what it is.

~Laura

[Hopalong]

Hi RM,
Though you may be right, for me so far it's just too painful to talk about my D as "an N." Just to apply the label. I don't want to adopt that habit of referring to her, so I won't. (I'd honestly rather you didn't either, if you'd permit.) But narcissistic behavior, certainly. She's not as verbally abusive as yours is, has had too much etiqutte rammed into her...but even when she's being "intellectual" about things when she's under stress she can dump on me in a truly relentless fashion. And at times cruel, as I think Hope called it for what it was.

I am not so much in denial about the bad parts of her nature as I am those of my own, I think.

You do have a very bold toughness in facing facts. I sometimes envy it, but our differences are what makes this such a good stew.

Thanks for caring. (Yep, you can add sometimes self-righteous to that list. Hmm.)

love,
Hops