Author Topic: Greatest Fear  (Read 5175 times)

Hopalong

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Greatest Fear
« on: December 17, 2007, 10:00:46 PM »
A painful pattern with my D just reared up again.
I am helping her financially get moved to go to grad school.
It has involved serious sacrifice. But it was my choice.

That said, she called last night to ask my opinion on a car repair--because she didn't know if it had been done. She also mentioned she'd had a rotten day at work. I offered sympathy and asked what had happened. She said that was irrelevant. So I suggested she contact the dealer where she bought it to see if they had a record. She said that was illogical and wrong thinking because they wouldn't keep records, they wouldn't know the history of the car. I said because it was an expensive local dealer they might have orginally sold the car as new, and had the same customer trade it in when they traded up. She kept insisting it was naive, wrong, incorrect, etc. Very hectoring and insistent, and I was tired. I said I have bought and sold a lot of cars and although I wasn't sure it would pan out it seemed like a reasonable first step to take.

Bottom line, it is an exhausting thing. She insists it's a "conversation" and to me it feels like being flayed alive. She says she's "offering me criticism" about my reasoning. I said, I have said goodbye to a friend today and I don't feel like listening to criticism. She was then extremely indignant and lectured me longer about what a terrible thing that was, to shut her down and refuse to accept criticism, because "I think I'm perfect." Relentless, exhausting. Finally, because she is relentless, I simply shut up, watched the captions on the TV program and held the phone at a distance and let her rip. When she subsided I was again warm and kind and when she had finished all she had to say, she was done. End of conversation.

So today I wrote her a lot of questions, like: why can't you let me be imperfect or inaccurate? Why do you keep going until I become submissive? I feel as though complete capitulation is all that will satisfy you, and I worry about what this bodes for your future relationships. I want you to have a happy mutual respectful relationship and when you are this rigid it won't work. And I told her it reminded me of how her father would treat me when he came home from a rough day at work and picked a fight. I asked a lot of questions like that, and closed by saying that the thing that really bothered me was that I told her I'd lost a friend, and she didn't ask me one thing about him. Such as, I'm sorry you lost a friend. Who was it? Tell me a little about him. I told her she needed to remember that other people weren't receptacles for her bad moods.

Her response chills me. It may sound familiar:

I did not unload my shitty day on you.  Nor did I even mention my shitty day more than once, except to put it in the reference that we all  have shitty days no matter what happens.  I was trying to engage a conversation but you had no desire to be a part of it.  I am not sorry for anything I said last night.  Nor do I feel in the wrong about anything.  

When things like this happen I feel bowed over with the fear (not the certainty -- if you feel it's hopelessly obvious, please be gentle...) that my daughter is a narcissist. She is very nice to me when she wants something or needs me. But if she is stressed or agitated...she's cold as a glacier.

I feel heartsick about it, and boy, would I love to be wrong.

(I called her dealer this a.m. and they had the records, and the answer I had thought they would have. I sent it to her.)

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Certain Hope

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Re: Greatest Fear
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2007, 10:16:50 PM »
(((((((((((((((Hops)))))))))))))))  She may be simply a spoiled brat... no doubt she's acting like one.

When an adult chooses to behave like a two-year old - our own grown-child or not - she needs to reap the consequences for her actions.

Sweet Hops... my blunt opinion is - you shouldn'ta done her secretarial work for her and you shoulda told her why you weren't doin it.
You gave her wise counsel about the car situation = your work was done.

She fit-pitches over the phone... holding it away from your ear was too kind.
"Excuse me - you may take my wise counsel/suggestion or not - your choice - but I have something on the stove now - must run."

I'm so sorry she wasn't attuned to your need at that moment, but please see that by "helping" her re: the car, you didn't meet her genuine need, either.
She needed to be told right then and there that her mother doesn't receive that sort of talk from anyone, including her baby girl.

Much love to you and more hugs (((((((((((((Hops))))))))))) I am sorry about the loss of your friend and sorry this is so choppy, but I wanted to post immediately,
Carolyn


Hopalong

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Re: Greatest Fear
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2007, 10:29:44 PM »
Thank you, Carolyn.
You made me tear up and it's overdue.

love you,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Certain Hope

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Re: Greatest Fear
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2007, 10:59:50 PM »
(((((((((((Hops))))))))))) Pretty teary here, too...  with two older girls - @ 1,000 miles distant and yet merrily givin me silver streaks amidst the ... well, whatever.

I love you, too.

Carolyn

teartracks

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Re: Greatest Fear
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2007, 11:31:30 PM »


Hops...love you.  Didn't mean to remove my original message, though I am doing some deletes from 2006. 

I still think things will work our amicablly with you and your daughter.  At the least, you have my prayers for that.

tt
« Last Edit: December 27, 2007, 02:03:27 AM by teartracks »

Hopalong

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Re: Greatest Fear
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2007, 11:52:03 PM »
Thank you, TT...hugs felt, gratefully.

It just hurts.
Sometimes she's so cold I feel sort of stunned.
And like a doormat, which must be obvious.   :oops:

I know a lot of it is she's burying a lot of anxiety over her move.
She is very worried about getting approved for an apartment.

It's not that she's without feeling...there was a great explosion of grief for her Dad that she shared with me recently.

I just feel as though she's often without feeling for me.

Oh well, enough sulking.

Thank you for the kindness and support, CH, TT....
I know it must be hard to watch.

love
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

changing

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Re: Greatest Fear
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2007, 01:27:11 AM »
My Dear Dear Hoppy-

You and your daughter have ups and downs. Sometimes there may be hurtful exchanges. At her age, it is hard to listen to speeches from Mom, even an extraordinary one such as Our Hoppy. Your daughter may feel very alone and almost too independent now, as if working without a net- scary. Sometimes when one is touchy emotionally, one cannot bear to be spoken to about the hurt- it is too hard to process precisely at that moment.

Her father is angelic, perfect and inviolate in her consciousness at this point. You however are alive, available and fallible. She can question and be angry with you, and know that you will not be lost to her.  I am sorry that you have that burden here, it is unfair, but it is the truth. It would horribly unhealthy for her if her image of her father was crystallized in a negative way. The death of her father and the lack of a greater amount of support from other family has made you take the brunt of things financially and emotionally.

She may have had a terrificly horrible day. In that context, to hear comparisons with her father that are less than laudatory may have led to an unfortunate emotional reaction. It may have seemed like a cold response,but perhaps she shut down when she heard those comments. That is actually quite normal.Things are unbalanced and scary for both of you now...I am not excusing her here. You were at a low point  as well. After the warmth and love at the service for your friend, almost any exchange would seem hollow and irritating, and your heart was wrung dry no doubt. You were both most likely quite sensitive at that precise juncture. A loving mother, you overextended yourself for her sake.

It is lovely that you care so much for your daughter. It seems that she is doing well despite many hurts and hardships- you have done a fabulous job. She may have a different communication style than you do, and may be at one of the tough points in life. But she is a good person. Perhaps she is your alive, available, and fallible being as well.

Sorry this happened when you were down, but don't let it trouble you Hoppy. She is blessed to have you, and you her, even when you are both feeling so sensitive and raw.

Don't Worry Hoppy. Don't be afraid to be excited for her future- it will turn out fine!

Love From Your Friend,

Changing

Hopalong

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Re: Greatest Fear
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2007, 01:53:10 AM »
You're right, Changing, and thank you.
I shouldn't have compared her to her father.
If only it weren't true.
He was hyper critical and negative and it drove me away.

I'm afraid the same will happen to her, and she's been so lonely.

 :(
Hops

I think I should apologize to her for that but I am wrung dry with being the one who is accountable.
Well, nobody passes out blue ribbons.

Thank you, Changing, for always offering such sweet faith in me.
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

changing

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Re: Greatest Fear
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2007, 02:23:11 AM »
My Dear Hoppy-

Relax!No more drama!Let it go for now. When next you speak with her, let her know how proud you are and how excited you are for her. I know this is how you truly feel. Don't bring up the Dad thing again- that is your fear.  Let your sincere hopes and happiness flow Hoppy. She may not give you the expected response, but she will feel the vibe. This makes all the rest OK - all the work and stress-and is something no one else can give her in the same way that her mother can- approval, validation, the sense that she makes you as her mommy happy by being "her". If she brings up the Dad thing, just tell her that you are sorry that you spoke like a jackal- no big thing Hoppy. She was somewhat jackalish herself! By the way speaking of jackalishness, holding the phone away, etc when she is being witchy is the best solution!!!! Who needs to hear that? I will have to borrow that one from you Hoppy!!!!

She heard what you said about checking out the car, etc. When she asks for advice, etc or just unburdens herself, be judicious in your answers- just let her ask. Very very occassionaly, when you do offer something unsolicited, she will be more inclined to listen (and may still bristle- she is your daughter, not a partner or husband and may not always see things your way). She knows that you are a Wise Woman Hoppy. Most important, she knows that you are her wonderful mommy who believes in her enough to sacrifice, and is there for her. You sweet and sensitive creature. Now relax and be happy- your daughter is starting to fly solo to a higher place!!!!

Love You Wise Hoppy,

Changing
« Last Edit: December 18, 2007, 02:58:12 AM by changing »

Bella_French

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Re: Greatest Fear
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2007, 03:52:46 AM »
Dear Hops,
Hugs to you, thats rough. I think your daughter is an especially un-tactful communicator, which is odd since she is your daughter (and you're the opposite). Maybe its a rebellion thing? Every now and again I deal with people who communicate in such a way, and although I totally cringe when I listen to their style of communicating, I've found that it does not necessarily reflect their heart. Its just how they talk (putting down someone in a direct manner, when they need not do that). If you had some European in your blood, I'd guess she's a nordic throwback, lol.

Don't worry Hops, I really think this is a communication style thing, and not more.

X bella




lighter

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Re: Greatest Fear
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2007, 06:20:49 AM »
(((((Hops))))))

Leah

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Re: Greatest Fear
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2007, 06:33:33 AM »
Dear ((((( Hops )))))

Truly, I felt how that must have felt.

When she called last night to ask you your opinion on her car repair situation she also mentioned she'd had a rotten day at work so maybe with all the stress of the changes going on at present in her life she may have felt inadequate/low self esteem? that she had not thought of the obvious thing to do, which was your sound sensible logical advice, in contacting the car dealer.  Maybe she felt embarrassed.  So, maybe that is why she let off all her feelings of maybe low self esteem and tiredness, anxiety and stress of all the recent life changes and anticipations, flow out that way towards/at you.

There is a saying "you always hurt the one you love."

That does not in any way excuse her wrongful behaviour towards you, just maybe, it's the root cause of the reason why.

Love to you,

Leah
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

lighter

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Re: Greatest Fear
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2007, 06:40:03 AM »
Hops.... I still don't have any words to comfort you.

I don't know  nuthin about birthin no older children..... but I certainly can be driven into an emotional corner (fearful of touching the frog I think) and jinxing myself by commenting on things I'm involved in (I have 2 small female children) and have no ideas about: /

I've been thinking about your conversation.....

and I'm still thinkin.

I don't like to see you driven back on your heels.... how can you be proactive in your conversations with her?

I want you to float like a butterlyfly...... not stung by a bee.


gratitude28

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Re: Greatest Fear
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2007, 07:07:11 AM »
(((((((((((Hops))))))))))

Even if we could label your daughter, it won't change anything. The fact is, she can be cruel. I guess you will have to estimate whether the risk is worth communicating with her. If so, brace yourself for the kind of response she is capable of sending. You may find you need to detach from her some, and I can only imagine how difficult that must be when talking about one's child.

(((((((((Hops))))))))))) ...an extra hug...

Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

CB123

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Re: Greatest Fear
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2007, 07:50:45 AM »
Hops,

I'm so sorry--I have had exchanges with one son in particular that made my blood run cold.  Amazingly, he is the one that I often connect with the most, so go figure. 

How do you parent without feeling guilty?  I think someone should hand out a guilt membership card on the delivery table. 

Even if she's an N (I hate labels), I don't think they are as hopeless a might be assumed.  You just have to set strong boundaries and stick with them.  Dear Hopsy, if she says your idea is irrational and senseless, then let her have her opinion.  Don't go on and make the call that you advised her to make.  Let her live with consequences.  Hard, huh?  But it's really the only way.  Plus--if it's important (for some perverse reason) that she NOT take your advice, having you prove her wrong will just prolong her attitude.

Now for true confessions: I was a real pill when I was your D's age.  My mother had, at least, strong N tendencies and I had reason to be driven crazy by her.  But I really had a mouth that wouldnt quit.  I have grown up a lot--but if anyone had been watching, they would have seen me being dragged behind the metaphorical truck before I did.  Don't rescue her, Hops.  It may be her only hope, as it was mine.  Yuck.  How come life is so messy?

Here's a revelation that I discovered about me:  when I rescue my kids, it is often about making ME feel better.  I can't stand the pain of watching them suffer.  If I was standing outside the situation, I would see things differently than I do when I am in it.  I think that one thing that we have to do when dealing with our kids is to trust them to be as strong as we were when we suffered.  Oh, so hard.

For years, Hops, I didnt know how to have an identity apart from my mother unless I rejected surface and external things about her.  She was an executive in a cosmetics industry--I didnt wear makeup.  She was a high-powered business woman, I stayed home with my kids.  How much of that was really me?  How much was a reaction?  I dont think I'll ever know.  But the point is--you have modeled for your D. the kind of self-reflection it takes to work her way out of the holes she is going to get herself into.  All you can do now is stand back and let her do it.

Love you, Hops,
CB
When they are older and telling their own children about their grandmother, they will be able to say that she stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way -- and it surely has not -- she adjusted her sails.  Elizabeth Edwards 2010