Clutter: a person problem

[Gaining Strength]

There was an article in today's NY Times about clutter and hoarding. 

"Excessive clutter and disorgaization are ofter symptioms of a bigger health problem.  People who have suffered an emotional trauma or a brain injury often find housecleaing an insurmountable task.  Attentio deficit disorder, depression, chronic pain and grief can prevent people from getting organized or lead to a buildup of clutter."

The article cites a web site that has a clutter scale and some inteeresting links such as "Messies Anonymous."  www.nsgcd.org

This is very, very helpful to read right out in the news paper.  It is reassuring to me and comforting. 

[lighter]

A friend once told me that her cheating h's T,

::big breath:: 

instructed him to oranize his space first.....

then start working on his life. 

She thought our space was directly linked to our mental state.

As I'm in the middle of a self inflicted clutter crisis right now...... all tidily stacked and mostly out of sight (but I NEED to be able to locate my stuff when I need it)

I must figure out something...... anyone want to trade organization time for something I'm good at?

I have many talents.... but executive function skills aren't listed on my resume

[Gaining Strength]

lol - sort of

executive function skills - that need has had me crippled my entire life

Funny thing how necessary they are to be functional.  I fell over the banisters and landed face first one entire floor below when i was 6.  I think that was not helpful and then to grow up with an N father and mother w/ N traits - constantly belittling and demanding without providing the resources to function - zap - no executive function skills

Trying to recreate such things by tricking my brain into functioning. LOL

[Izzy_*now*]

I am very tidy with everything in its place.

[changing]

Izzy-

You are Izzyfied, something that I am striving for , but am woefully deficient at at present. But I love to hear your thoughts on the subject, as they have inspired some major organizing on my part and I love it!

Love,

Changing

[sea storm]

I wish I was tidy. I think it is part of my learning disability. I just blak out when it comes to organizing.  Right now I am massively organizing my house with the help of two people. Lots of stuff has gone to the dump and there is still lots to go.

I put a suite in downstairs and it is a holiday rental. This requires very big changes in ambience and what a big task it has been. I notice that people who can oorganize seems to find comfort in it and when the going gets rough they
 start organizing things.  This is not what I do. Just the opposite. I guess I start hoarding. Cripes. This is a bit of a shock to realize this.  I start going to second hand stores and the clutter just builds up.  I am trying to deal with this.  I have to now.

I dread paying my bills and organizing paper. I enjoy writing reports though.
i have had a whack or two  on the head and probably lost a few brain cells. Better not to catastrophize and thing it is early onset Alzheimer's.

According to Jung there are personality types and some love to organize and some don't. We need both kinds of people in the world. 
Sea storm

[Izzy_*now*]

Izzy-
You are Izzyfied, something that I am striving for , but am woefully deficient at at present. But I love to hear your thoughts on the subject, as they have inspired some major organizing on my part and I love it!
Love,
Changing

I have a filing cabinet and folders for my personal papers: bank statements, Visa, Car expenses, material that comes with a new purchase and if/when I sell it, I can give the new owner the manual etc.--like if I sell this brand new cell phone that I haven't even used, let alone taken out with me when I do go out-- (not including Computer material). Charge Card info,  Car insurance and automobile Association--Income Tax Returns, last 7 years.

...but I now only charge in Visa--I have Store Cards, like Sears, but don't use them--and use debit cards.

... as long as my bank statements reconcile I keep only the last couple of months and dispose of anything older

...In a 'recipe'box with the already alphbetized cards, I keep the stub from the last payment I made for --electricuty, cable, telephone, even yearly items like the disability card for the car,,--when the next month's bill arrives showing I paid last month's bill, I toss it and keep only the current stub

--I keep my bank records etc. on a computer program --even down to the cash in my wallet--when I spend cash, use my debit card, use Visa, or write a cheque, I post to my program. My income is deposited automatically and the program knows enough to post it.

I file these when they are paid. Only takes a minnute.

I keep my computer material in a separate place and for each purchase of a program, I keep the store receipt stapled to the info, and also with programs that require an ID whatever are stapled to the material so nothing is lost.

Right now I have Corel 3 ands Corel 4 but they are usekess to me with XP and I expect they are not needed by anyone else, so that is all that I've hung onto, "in case", but there disks and manuals etc will all go out soon in the garbage. I use Corel 10. in XP and pray it is good in Vista.  I own 3 and 4, so had to pay only ½ price for Corel 10, $400,00

I donated all my books to the Library, and now just borrow books---less space used.

I have about 200 DVDs and they are filed alphabetically, but in 3 places, yet I have a Spreadsheet with all the titles.

My VCR tray holds only 24 cassettes, sitting under the VCR--any others are in with the books I own that I didn't donate---accompanied by all my previously mentioned computer things.

All pens and pencils are in a holder.

The top drawers on either side oif me at my desk could be considered messy, but it is difficult to file a stapler, a staple remover, a bank stamp, a calculator, paper clips, bag of elastic bands, bottle of ink, memo pads, rulers, 3-hole punch, but I've heard it said that there must be a least one junk drawer in the house.

Well that only covers paying the bills and filing after ward. Not hard.

Do I sound obsessive or just in control of my paperwork?

Izzy

[Bella_French]

I always enoyed visiting my Greek (step) grandparents as a child, as they were such HUGE hoarders. We were allowed to roam freely through their garages, where we found so many really cool old things... Greek relics, art, photos, my fathers prized toys, printing tools from my Grand-dads first business.

 I remember my  brother and I were the most interested, and we'd forever bring inside this or that old thing found during our foraging, ,and ask all about it. I think we learned a lot about Greece and the family that way. Those were exciting times for a kid!

My view on hoarding is that its only bad when its a fire hazzard, lol.

Honestly, I think people shouldn't beat themselves up too much over silly little things. If you like to keep stuff, its probably because you're sentimental. if the place gets cluttered, it just means you ran out room to store everything you want to keep. Its not a sign of brain damage or being broken.

X bella

[axa]

Whenever I read a post on the board I usually relate to it and see that I have more work to do. It was delightful to read this thread because I do NOT have any clutter.  Getting a bit of a rush about being organised right now.  When I left my home to move to the city three months ago I packed my whole life into my car, of course I left furniture and books behind but other than that everything went into my small car.  It made me feel really good. I like not having too many things.  Like Izzy I am pretty organised but not up to Izzy's standard.  I do not like doing paper work and filing but feel great when I have it done.

My sister is a terrible hoarder we discussed this recently.  I think the reason I am so organised is because my mother always insulted me about being so dirty and untidy and I think I went to the other extreme.  My guess is that underneath all the organisation I am extremely untidy but still fighting my mother's voice.

axa

[Hopalong]

Izzy, Axa...
I'm holding you up in my mind as inspiration.

thank you,
Hops

[Leah]

I was always know as 'the organizer' and kept everything tidy and organized, complete with filing cabinet, so if anyone wanted anything, they only had to come to Leah, and it was all too hand.

However, when my marriage and life fell apart, midst the fog and despair, and turmoil, that all fell away into disarray, added to which, I had to move a couple of times.  In any case, I was sick of good old Leah and so inwardly, I may have have gone into a mid-life rebellion of some kind.   

Now, my home is organized once more, especially, my officey area, and, I feel crisp, clean and weightless about it all. 

I have my small lockable filing cabinet and feel quite safe.

Love, Leah

[tayana]

I have spells where I am very organized, and spells where I'm very disorganized.  Since I've moved, I've become more organized, and when I moved I weeded out tons of stuff.  I went through my clothes and got rid of things I didn't like, wouldn't wear, couldn't wear, etc.  I went through books and donated the ones I had already read, wouldn't read or wasn't like to read again.  I took three bags of papers to the dumpster.  I got rid of financial documents that were old and not needed.  I got rid of old statements and check stubs from jobs I no longer worked at.  I bought a file cabinet and made a habit of filing things away monthly.  I have folders to keep instruction manuals for appliances, electronics and that sort of thing, bank statements, leases, insurance policies, etc.  I also decided that I was keeping very little paper, so I go through papers from school on Sunday before I have to sign the book and return it.  I do keep a few things, but a lot of things get thrown out.  It's an ongoing process.  I won't say my system is perfect, but it works for me.  I find that I have a lot less anxiety when everything has a place and is returned to that place after using it.   

For those who were saying they have trouble with executive function skills.  Coping strategies exist for that.  Executive function deficits are common with ADD and high functioning autism.  Here's a link to some coping skills for adults with ADD:

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/adhd_add_adult_strategies.htm

It might take some creativity, but you can learn organization.  It's not something that comes naturally.  It's something that's taught.  If you've ever seen shows like Clean Sweep or Clean House, you'll notice that they teach the families organizational skills.

[Gaining Strength]

tt - i know of a disorder in children known as PANDAS which is a form of OCD that results from repeated strep infections.  I imagine that other brain disorders can result from childhood diseases or certainly from brain or head injuries.  Also hormonal disorders can dramatically affect mood and personality.  Not to mention abuse and emotional neglect.

[Leah]

Then there are those who place no importance on tidiness and strict organization.

Thinking of the learned professor types who live with books left open, and/or, in disarray around their desk and office space.

Living without alphabetical order.


My thoughts are, that the 'clutter' and 'hoarding' issue is a problem if it is simply an extreme case, and becomes a health or fire hazard.

Each to their own, maybe?

Love, Leah

[lighter]

Thank you organized tidy tay for the info and links.

Izzy..... we already knew everything in your abode was in it's place..... ::recalling picture of very neat Izzy space::  I wish I had you near!  

I have to say.... I've wondered if my extended time in the birth canal had something to do with my inability to utilize executive funtion brain.... parts

Then I remembered that my twin has trouble too...... and she wasn't bright fuscia, from lack of oxygen, when she was born.

My Grandparents used to buiild little out building upon out building to hold the boy toy clutter my gf accumulated, made, chopped off of prize horses (their tails) after they passed.  He had a huge white barn and a horse barn and then all these tidily tacked on sheds that smelled like fuel and grease and tools.  Very comforting and interesting to me.

He had rooms of horse trophies, some 3 feet tall, in the house too.  There were high high shelves in an upstairs room lined with stuff.  There was ribbon after ribbon after ribbon, faded red and gold and blue fancy things from horse shows...... pictures of him as a young man in cowboy clothes sitting on a splendid horse.... a handsome figure and seriouse face.  He was always laughing and rubbing his whiskers on us..... grown beyond the small tiny wasteline of his youth.

Cool stuff.... they had tons of cool cool stuff.  The sun room held all their paper stuff.  Not so cool and mostly my notary public GM's stuff to be chased after.  She was the organized seriouse one..... he was the creative salesman, horse master, gentleman farmer, dealership owner with a soft spot for women and cheats.  I'm told he made and lost several fortunes before I was born.

The basement had shelves and blankets hung to hide, stuff stored there, away.  It was so cozy in all that clutter...... I adored it and the smell of their house (and stuff.....) it's one of the most comforting smells in the world for me.  I just opened a plastic tub with some chennile blankets the other day..... blankets that belonged to them.  I sat in a puddle of them and just smelled and smelled.  GF smoked a pipe and GM kept her house spik and span.  If there was clutter in many rooms, the main living areas were virtually clutter free and spotless.

There was a divan in the livingroom with a picture over it.... a magazine rack with books..... a plant I pulled over into my eyes when I was learning to pull up on things and a candy dish on the buffet, which was next to the diningroom table in the same room as the divan.

She had family pictures organized on one wall in that room..... right over the black floor registers that delivered heat to the house.  That's where they put the little cot my brother slept on during visits.  Right next to the doorway leading to their bedroom.

My sister and I slept in the guestroom upstairs, which was covered in lovely purple floral wall paper and had closet doors on 2 walls.... I have the feeling you could walk through that closet around the entire perimeter of the room, though that can't be  true as there was a wall of windows.  In the windows were fans in the summer.  We never,any of us,  had ac.  So, the sound of a fan is something I consider necessary.  

I need it to sleep with, in other words.  The comfort of white noise.  

I believe people do what makes them feel good.  I enjoy decluttering and cleaning things minutely with a toothbrush for hours.... but I usually don't have hours to focus like that.  So..... I struggle with multi tasking, not a good multi tasker and the focus comes when I'm under the gun and must perform.   I get a burst of energy that's unebleivably creative and economical with motion.  

Very interesting.  I wonder if they bottle the drugs released into my system when that happens


That was a nice trip down memory lane.

::going to sniff a faded red chennile bedcover again::  


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