another new member curious about NMoms

[train13]

I'm a new member and read some of the posts about NMoms.  I think my mother is an N as well, but in a different way.  

She never really cut me down to feel better, but she did build me up to the point of creating a fantasy version of me - one that made her feel successful as a mother.  I've always felt pressure to do/be what she wanted, and was made to feel ungrateful if I didn't deliver.  

My mom was abused by her father as a child - verbally, emotionally, and I'm almost positive sexually.  She had 1 child as a teen who she put up for adoption.  Then she got pregnant and married at 18 and had 2 more kids - my half-sisters.  When they were 4 and 5 years old, she kicked their father out of the house and married my dad - a doctor.  She forced my sisters to call him "dad," and quickly went about creating a newer, better family for herself.  She pretty much neglected my sisters in her attempt to do this, and I was born 4 years later.  I grew up very separate from my sisters - it was clear there was a "good family" and the "other family."

I'm realizing now the anxiety I feel in relationships is related to feeling responsible for my mom's happiness.  It's hard for me to figure out the boundary between myself and others.  I'm uncomfortable making decisions in my relationships because I worry so much about how the other person will feel.  I feel selfish if I make decisions based on what I want.

There's so much more to this, but this is a starting place.  Does any of this sound like what the child of an NMom experiences?  Any feedback is much appreciated.  Thanks for your help.

[sonia]

Hi Train,

My Mom went from subtle hurtful remarks to overvaluing me and my siblings. When she wanted to look good or feel that she was a good Mom, she would pour on the sugar. But in private, she always very covertly brought us down a peg. It was confusing and I also had issues with boundries and knowing where I ended and she began.

My sister said she was sollipsistic(sp?) - her way or the highway - she seemed to think if you were different from her, you had a moral deficit. I don't know if she has NPD or just has strong narcissisitc tendancies that she uses when she wants to.

In any case, I think the scenario you describe about the "other" family being bad is unfortunately all too common with divorce situations and remarriage. And your sisters must be hurting as well.

Sonia

[les]

Welcome aboard Train! I've been riding these rails for a few weeks now and almost feel like an old-timer.  A number of people have recommended some good books on this whole subject - Amazon.com has lots of good offerings on Narcissism. I must confess I haven't ordered them yet because I keep learning so much from the posts. So anything I have to say is gut instinct, not particularly educated at this point.

I think when Who you are, Who you REALLY are, is not seen, not recognized, not validated for whatever reason -in your case, your mother's need to bask in the reflected glory of her fantasy child... then the impact on the child/person is probably one of voicelessness as the Board suggests. Finding your true voice is the issue. Your inability to make decisions based on what you want, establish healthy boundaries with others, worrying excessively about what other people want (the template for that being created with your mother) -all this is so familiar and I relate 100% to it all. (and there is no doubt that my mother was a SuperN if there is such a condition)

Is your mother an N?I would say probably but I don't have the credentials yet! Do I think you could learn a lot from reading the posts, Dr. Grossman's personal story and essays- absolutely.

I know Bunny will be along shortly to help you out but to borrow something from her I believe she told me (approx)

 [Decide on some boundaries and start reinforcing them] - you have every right to do this. I did and man it has made a tremendous difference to me

I understand this need to please, rarely asserting what it is you want. Part of the challenge is learning what it is you ACTUALLY want. Pay attention to yourself, your body, your feelings. They are yours alone, unique and should be expressed in the world. All voices should be heard.  Why be anything other than who you are. We are here to develop and expand this gift of life. I say to myself, well, I'm alive, I'm a life form so I guess I should respect myself at least as much as I respect anyone else. And there is no one else around but me to express who I really am so that's my job too!

Well that's a start.   Good luck Train 13.  I think I can I think I can......!

Les (formerly known as Less)

[train13]

Thank you both, Sonia and Les, for your replies.  It's great to know there are others out there who "get it."

Les, I think you hit the nail on the head for me when you said that part of the challenge is learning what it is you actually want.  That seems to be one of the biggest stumbling blocks at the moment.  When I tell my therapist I don't know what I want, she says "yes, you do."  I know I have to throw off the yoke of worrying about my mom's feelings, and of feeling selfish for wanting something just for me.  Easier said than done!  I'm working on it, though.

I'm at the point now where I feel like I need to talk to my mom about some of this.  What I've read so far indicates that N's really don't ever change or "get better."  I'm afraid talking to my mom will do no good, but I'm stuck with anger at the moment, and I'm unable to carry on any kind of conversation with her (even the most banal) because of it.  I don't feel like I can cut off communication with her, but I don't want to/can't talk to her.  So I'm feeling kind of stuck.  I feel like I need to explain my distance to her in some way.  Any advice???

[sonia]

Train,

The only advice I have is to write a non posted letter or letters to your Mom. From what I've experienced first hand and from other posters on this board, it seems like talking to the N has little to no effect. And then when you aren't heard for the 1000th time, you will be frustrated and doubting yourself all over again.

Maybe you could have sporadic contact (times of your choosing) and try to fortress yourself against the inevitible attack.

Sonia

[Anonymous]

As Sonia says it really seems that N's cannot hear.  But perhaps we can still talk. It just might do YOU some good Train. And that's a GOOD thing! WHat do you need to say to your mother? Why not type it out here and have a look at it.Or rehearse it with your therapist. There are of course ways to put things that might slightly improve the odds of being heard. Those "I" messages people refer to rather than blaming accusing messages.

I have a flyer about a book called: Goodbye Mother Hello Woman - reweaving the Daughter Mother relationship, by Mary Dell and Marilyn Boynton. From the flyer:" "Every woman is a daughter whose life is interwoven with her mother. Here is a book to untangle the threads of the old relationship and reweave new ones." ..."In our 30's we can return home to cut the emotional umbilical cord with Mother. Saying goodbye to Mother in her role as Mother means: releasing old feelings that restrict growth; replacing negative childhood messages with empowering messages; choosing new options in the relationship.

..."as adult daughters we are no longer victims of fate, but rather co-creators of our own destiny."

What reading this does for me, is affirm that it is our right to individuate, grow apart from our Mothers, perhaps to come back as stronger people but perhaps not, the relationship may be too damaged. You will have to be the agent of change. Most mothers, perhaps even normal ones! don't like their relationships to change too much.  I took "the Board"[voicelessness] into battle a few weeks ago when I saw my mother. It made me stronger to know how many other people were wrestling with these problems.

I too felt like I didn't want to hurt my mother. In some ways she is impervious, in other ways very sensitive. But personal growth and change often happens with pain.. If she suffers a bit, it might be good for her too in the long run.  But she has had more life than you. It's your turn to expand and breathe. May "the board" be with you.

Les

[nassim]

Hi Train,

My Mom was alot like yours. She would blow in the wind morality wise because if I did something wrong she would justify it so she could always look better.

Of course that didn't help me grow up to be a morally strong person but that is an issue I'm working on now. I have to. The way I operate in the world now doesn't work. I've been in trouble with the law and don't want to repeat that experience again.

That's what got me doing research. And I'm in therepy and my guy said my Mom is an N. That really answers questions for me, but I still have repair work to do. Lots of it.

Nassim