Thought this was kind'a timely

[lighter]

Reduce Stress With Increased Assertiveness
From Elizabeth Scott, M.S.,
Your Guide to Stress Management.
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About.com Health's Disease and Condition content is reviewed by Steven Gans, MD
What Is Assertiveness?: Assertiveness is the ability to express one’s feelings and assert one’s rights while respecting the feelings and rights of others. Assertive communication is appropriately direct, open and honest, and clarifies one’s needs to the other person. Assertiveness comes naturally to some, but is a skill that can be learned. People who have mastered the skill of assertiveness are able to greatly reduce the level of interpersonal conflict in their lives, thereby reducing a major source of stress.
How Does Assertiveness Compare to Other Behavior?: Sometimes people confuse aggressiveness with assertiveness, seeing that both types of behavior involve standing up for one’s rights and expressing one’s needs. The key difference between the two styles is that individuals behaving assertively will express themselves in ways that respect the other person. They assume the best about people, respect themselves, and think “win-win” and try to compromise.

In contrast, individuals behaving aggressively will tend to employ tactics that are disrespectful, manipulative, demeaning, or abusive. They make negative assumptions about the motives of others and think in retaliatory terms, or they don’t think of the other person’s point of view at all. They win at the expense of others, and create unnecessary conflict.

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Passive individuals don’t know how to adequately communicate their feelings and needs to others. They tend to fear conflict so much that they let their needs go unmet and keep their feelings secret in order to ‘keep the peace’. They let others win while they lose out; the problem with this (which I’ll go into in more detail momentarily) is that everybody involved loses, at least to an extent.
What Does Assertiveness Look Like?: Here are some common scenarios, with examples of each style of behavior:
Scenario A: Someone cuts in front of you at the supermarket.

An aggressive response would be to assume they did it on purpose and angrily say, “Hey, jackass, no cuts!”

A passive response would be to just let the person stay in front of you.

An assertive response would be to assume that they may not have seen you in line, and politely say, “Excuse me, but I was in line.”


Scenario B: Your friend, who can be quite verbose, calls to vent about her bad day. Unfortunately, you have a lot of work to do and don’t have time to talk.
An aggressive response would be to become angry that she obviously doesn’t respect your time, cut her off, and sarcastically say, “Oh, get over it! I have my own problems!”

A passive response would be to let her talk for as long as she needs, and figure that your deadline can suffer; she needs your help.


An assertive response would be to listen for a minute or two, then compassionately say, “Wow, it sounds like you’re having a tough day! I’d love to talk to you about it, but I don’t have the time right now. Can we talk later tonight?”
Get the idea?

What Are the Benefits of Assertiveness?: Assertiveness affects many areas of life. Assertive people tend to have fewer conflicts in their dealings with others, which translates into much less stress in their lives. They get their needs met (which also means less stressing over unmet needs), and help others get their needs met, too. Having stronger, more supportive relationships virtually guarantees that, in a bind, they have people they can count on, which also helps with stress management, and even leads to a healthier body.
Contrasting with this, aggressiveness tends to alienate others and create unnecessary stress. Those on the receiving end of aggressive behavior tend to feel attacked and often avoid the aggressive individual, understandably. Over time, people who behave aggressively tend to have a string of failed relationships and little social support, and they don’t always understand that this is related to their own behavior. Ironically, they often feel like victims, too.

Passive people aim to avoid conflict by avoiding communication about their needs and feelings, but this behavior damages relationships in the long run. They may feel like victims, but continue to avoid confrontation, becoming increasingly angry until, when they finally do say something, it comes out aggressively. The other party doesn’t even know there’s a problem until the formerly passive individual virtually explodes! This leads to hard feelings, weaker relationships, and more passivity.
How Does One Become More Assertive?:

The first step in becoming more assertive is to take an honest look at yourself and your responses, to see where you currently stand. The answers to the following questions will help clue you in:


Do you have difficulty accepting constructive criticism?
Do you find yourself saying ‘yes’ to requests that you should really say ‘no’ to, just to avoid disappointing people?
Do you have trouble voicing a difference of opinion with others?
Do people tend to feel alienated by your communication style when you do disagree with them?
Do you feel attacked when someone has an opinion different from your own?
If you answered yes to several of these, you may benefit from learning assertiveness skills.
Knowing where you stand on the assertiveness spectrum, and knowing where you want to be, you can read more on assertiveness training, develop a win-win mentality, and begin becoming more assertive today!

Updated: August 13, 2006More Relationship Skills
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Hops..... you've suggested Assertiveness training on the board.... and I;ve never made the time or effort. 

::smacking self in forehead::

I think I'll order a book on assertiveness and Doc G's book then start some new threads. 

Whew..... learning to properly assert ourselves is part of the equation...... I feel like I just swam out of a swamp into sunlight.

Just not sure if it'll stand up to all the challenges of dealing with smoke and mirrors, but..... it;s gotta be a wonderful start to feeling good about meeting our own needs and being heard.

Have you taken a course on being assertive, Hops?  If so.... what kind?

[Hopalong]

I did, 20 years ago, and it was illuminating like crazy.
I was yakking away and as we went around the circle,
people explained why they were there...most felt voiceless.

I felt I was TOO assertive, but I had it confused with desperate talking.

It was wonderful, wonderful training.
I learned so much not just about speaking up in a (hopefully) more constructive way,
but I also learned how to listen.

I still don't always do it right, not at all.
But I understand the principles.

xo
Hops

[reallyME]

I definitely am working on going from aggressive to assertive these days...not easy cause there are times I want to say "just GET OVER IT" to some folks.  Just being honest.

These would be the people who I've tried to reach for the past 5 or more years, who know they have issues, blow off their counseling appts and refuse to take action in the ways that will literally save their lives.  FRUSTRATING!

~Laura

[Hopalong]

You have accomplished so much with that just since I've known you, Laura.
It has been so evident, how honestly you have engaged yourself.

I respect your work.
And nobody does it right all the time.

love,
Hops

[lighter]

Nothing to do with RM's post.... I'll come back and read responses after I;ve posted this: )


I have this really sick feeling......

like I'm about to go into some circular tail chasing deja vu week that confirms my worst (current) fear......

there isn't any way to deal with smoke and mirrors that doesn't cause more injury to innocent parties.

If you smash a mirror....

it just falls on top of everything around it..... still reflecting but sharper..... and then multiple images are coming back.    

::disgusted shaking of head::

There's no controlling the damage and you just unleash more chaos and get pinpointed as the initial point of combustion.  

Never mind that you're addressing chaos in the first place.  

And the reflected tricksy lying false images have just enough truth mixed in to plant a seed of doubt..... perhaps carry the day altogether?

That's how abusers end up with child custody,  no doubt: /    

And it's a game..... always.  

Sport and kicks for the deciever, what fun.  


You (general) stand to lose something you care about.....

they're playing for things that don't hold sway over them..... aside from their preciouse se;f image and the all important goal of beating you.  

Hostage only to themselves....... what an amazing advantage to have in a battle.  

No wonder it's so difficult to engage and stand ground..... never mind win.... when you're dealing with smoke and mirrors.

Ingenius!  

Attack by drawing.... distort vision or take it altogether with something false or unimportant....

 but a ruse (or many ruses, even better!) a distraction away from themselves.  

A good offense is a great defense.....  no kidding.

yes yes just rambling now but I think I'm figuring it out.

[lighter]

It's evident to me that you've familiarized yourself with the principals, Hops.

I'm sometimes in awe of your patience.

[lighter]

I know assertiveness training wou;d help us both in so many ways..... not necessarily with every challenge, but hey...... it's still part of the solution.

[Hopalong]

It's both fascinating and fun to take the workshop, too.
Let me know if you find one!

xo
Hops

[reallyME]

GS: Something to remember:  the person you are dealing with may not know how to distinguish between assertiveness and aggressiveness.  I see this in a lot of people who seem to be fullblown N's.  An Nish person may be somewhat corralled by assertiveness--but someone who seems to be truly narcissistic will be very threatened by assertiveness.  My NH was most comfortable with my passivity and even my aggressiveness when I "lost it" (I got the impression that both fed his feeling of superiority).  But if I was able to be healthily assertive, it usually provoked rage in him.  Go figure.

This is true of my daughter as well.  If I'm assertive it evokes her aggressive side.  If I'm passive, same thing.  If I'm aggressive, obvious results. Point is, can't win for losing with her.  I just steer clear altogether.

[Leah]

That's because being assertive means you are in control of your own emotions and acting on them, responsibly.

The Ns of the world - the disturbed - can't do this, so: rage because if you are in control of you - they can't be.

So true, Amber

Pathological Envy by the disordered for they desire to be assertive, but sadly, it is not within their capability.

Added to which, control is vital for their personal coping strategy.

Love, Leah

[Leah]

Group Assertiveness

People are all important

Everyone is an individual and to find their social identity or who they are as a social being, requires    Life Skills.

Communication Objectives

The world is a busy place and every second counts, so do people. Assertiveness is important and so is the ability to stay cool.

Clarity of thought can only follow after careful consideration of ideas or concepts. As true for the Company as for any individual.

Avoidance of conflicting interests, the use of time and pre thought, all have a part to play in achieving the goal.



Owning a decision is essential in a democracy and social group. Justice and fairness assist the individual person to accept the will of the majority, otherwise he or she will be coerced into behaving in a certain way and this would lead to dissatisfaction and trouble.

Productivity is sometimes seen as an emotive term, with overtones of mass production and even dehumanisation. Nevertheless the ability to be productive as an individual or as part of a society is part and parcel of a created order.

People flourish best when they are able to feel solidly behind the policy and purposes of the group or society, in which they are involved. Common goals and aspirations, together with an awareness of other people, can help to ease particular differences of opinion. The value of friendship and recreation are also important.

Any particular group will be part of a larger society, a country and international community. The group cannot exist on its own and certainly not indefinitely. Each individual member of the group will be an ambassador not only for the group its self, but for the country and community at large.



Taken the above from your weblink, Lighter

Thank you.

Love, Leah

[lighter]

The world is a busy place and every second counts, so do people. Assertiveness is important and so is the ability to stay cool.

Clarity of thought can only follow after careful consideration of ideas or concepts. As true for the Company as for any individual.
Avoidance of conflicting interests, the use of time and pre thought, all have a part to play in achieving the goal.

[Taken the above from your weblink, Lighter

Thank you.

Love, Leah

This jumped out at me, Leah.... and you're welcome.

The following is a stream of thought stemming from the above in red.  (very long..... consider this a warning)

Most probably difficult to follow....... please just skip if it's going to bother you (general.) 

I like the idea of skipping things we're likely to spend an entire thread complaining...  saves time.



Now....

It was suggested to me that hurtful (read that as cruel) words, spoken after the heat of conflict is over..... are akin to first degree murder, as opposed to manslaughter, when the words fly out helter skelter, in the heat of battle. 

I didn't understand that but I appreciated the message and, as is my custom, I gave it some thought. 

To my mind.....  mindful selection of words is imperative if we don't want to be run around like upset children blathering on without making sense, never acheiving any clarity or resolution. 

If words are spoken with cruelty, but are nonetheless true..... are they rendered useless? 

Because they're not nice? 

Is it my job to be empathetic all the time, to everyone, even those who have no empathy for me? 

If so,  why?  (I now realize I just have to appear to follow the rules, it's all about perception) 

::nod:: 

When I thought it was my job to be empathetic, no matter, that didn't really work too well for me either. 

The title mother earth goddess of love and forgiveness nice girl with perfect manners, silent eyes down,

frankly...... 

sucks and I'm done with it. 

 Guess it's no big secret, huh, lol?  I thnk I've been toying with giving it up for the last 15 years but so far haven't been able to gracefully reconcile iit, within myself.  I'm sure it's not attractive to witness. 

Apologies all around.  Trying to get from passive to assertive and the in between's messy work

I digress....

If my crime is first degree murder..... does manslaughter (words spoken stupidly in the heat of perceived battle) somehow become more valid?

It's true....

I think before I speak. 

Guilty as charged, wouldn't think of denying it.

I never thought it was a bad thing to mindfully think through my position and goals then speak,  with senses in tact.                   

I can't even blame frustration...... bc it's not been about that.... it's truly been a learning experience.... an experiment in communication.

The truth, delivered in a cruel fashion, is still the truth?  Gift it lovingly couched in words of grace or slap them on the table without mercy....  are they forfieted bc of style?  Apparently, as I've learned the hard way, lol.

Why, if we simply dislike the messenger or the message?  Are they not words that still deserve consideration?  (nope)

 I'm sure someelse here, is thinking something similar right now.

Those that live in PM land already have their view and those that look on the board without motive or agenda have theirs..... things won't change after any one post but.....

I want to know..... why is stabbing at the truth with a naked cruel blade in an aggressive fashion forbidden?  (broke the rules, that's why)

If someone is doing something completely lawless and predatory, (speaking of crimes against children and women now in domestic v situations, theft of inheretance) it's not appropriate to stab the truth with a naked cruel blade in an aggressive fashion? 

The answer is, NO, it's not.

There are rules that bind those who follow rules.    Hoops to jump through, papers to be filed, innocent till proven guilty and all that. 

Impossible to know who's telling the truth but..... the one telling the truth is compromised in so many ways... esp if children are being threatened behind closed doors to force compliance of the parent who's resisting control. 

But the courts can't see what goes on behind closed doors just like the board can;'t see what goes on in PM's. 

God forbid people start posting what was said in PM's so it can be judged, without emotion. 

What a mess and let me tell you.... it costs a lot, in time, effort and money, to have 3d recorded conversations put on paper so it can be admitted in court. 

You have no idea how much and then.... you can't just offer them up when you need them... you have to file papers and wait months for a hearing then get told it's not that kind of hearing, no evidence will be heard just smoke, mirrors and the truth without any way of knowing who's telling (what which would seem to defeat the purpose to me.) 

Why not just listen/read the darned transcript and let the cat out of the bag, up front?  The rules have a certain cadence.... an order to which they allow information to unfold. ::nod:: 

Facts don't lie but nobody seems to be interested in the facts.  Only perceptions.   

The rules don't apply to rule breakers, in any case.   

That much I've figured out.  (Gets even more convuluted when the rule breakers have been victimized into their current state of being.) 

The rules become bondage for those that would tell the truth, don't like it but it's true. 

There's no level playing field when dealing with lies, distortions and hysterical finger pointing that distracts beyond the issues at hand.

It's terribly apparent when the rule follower stops following the rules..... stands out like a bloody nosed bride in a white wedding gown.... and there stands the groom, all dapper and wide eyed..... pointing at her in his dark suit, showing no small dots of blood that are there, but hidden.

Nobody saw him slap her, hidden behind a closed door but.... he's telling everyone she's a chronic nose picker who eats boogers and she's horrified ,

darnit, she sure looks guilty.   

There is blood all over her gown..... and she desperately wants it NOT to be there, after all.  She wants the cause to go away and the groom keeps telling her that she's the cause and she made him do it. 

Who responds to crazy accusations like that and manages to look levelheaded, anyway?  We feel quite guilty for finding ourselves in a position that compromised in the first place.... and then...

alas.... her mother did see her go through a booger eating phase when she was 5yo..... how awful she never got over it? 

And so it goes.... mostly bc the victim spent so much time protecting the liar in the past. 

Who's going to believe her now? 

Highly improbable that he's been hitting her.... she's never mentioned a word and now there's this.....

::wrinkling up nose::



blood. 

 On her. She certainly looks like the problem.





When the rule breaker's habits are consistently fogging up the road..... they somehow end up flying on a path that's under the wire.... undetectable. 

Excusable. 

If the person following the rules veers off..... they're more culpable?  Any gain they've managed is lost bc they've taken up a weapon that's not pleasing or attractive, no matter how effective it is.

Break the rules, lose the battle.  Reminds me of something very funny Sam kennison said, when he was alive and ranting.  Never mind.

Only stealth breaking of rules gets by bc it's..... well,

stealthy, lol! 

I can't argue with that and life isn't fair, just like mama said. 

Heck no..... a fact's a fact.


God I hate it when the truth is dismissed, though. 

Hard to just walk by it.... and let it sink.  Focus on the next go round and let it go.

People's emotions are a very poor indicator of the truth, IMO.

I much prefer facts, even if they're unnatractively packaged or delivered without a head.

I suppose it goes back to the good ol boy system..... decisions made over lunch and drinks.... on the golfcourse.... in PM's....

while the opposing litigant, team or poster is bound to be dismissed, no matter what actions they take or have taken.  Oh well.

In which case, the phrase...."living well is the best revenge" comes to mind: / 

There will be pieces left when all is said and done.... over. 

Hopefully, anyway.

Some posters here have picked up the pieces of their lives after battling child abusing monsters...... my hat off to them.   It wasn't easy.  They have wisdom to share with us all.  I hope we/I can listen.

 

It's unfamiliar territory, this open battlefield carried out in covert fog, under the wire..... and the rules don't apply to anyone but you (general.)   Best get used to it and keep trudging.

What does Mud always say?  Sly as a serpent..... harmless as a dove?

But that's a game played by everyone, isn't it?

Maybe I just suck at games but still have to learn to be a master at them, nonetheless?

And this is my last painful fist waving refusal to accept the flawed rules...... accept that life really is just a game, as my husband always told me it was?

Stunning news when I heard it the first time, surely he didn't mean that!?!?. 

There are children involved for GOD'S SAKE!

 Ummm.....  the second time I heard it..... it became apparent that it is a game....

to some....... 

If not to me..

The third time I heard it..... I realized that it's not just a game.... it's chess and a very advanced level. 

I don't catch on very quickly.... a fairly simple soul.

The fouth time I heard it...... I was spitting out teeth and blood (figuratively) in court and wondering what the hell Margo was going to do about manufactured evidence and a couple of very well told lies my own attorney believed. 

Then, Margo was battling more reflections than she could focus on at once.....picking up teeth (dignity) and still trying to keep her children's lives on track.... protected....  remembering to check back with the jewler to see how much her wedding ring will bring so she can pay her children's school bill that her own attorney said H isn't obligated to pay, even though he has every penny of our money, and she's living off the end of her very good credit. 

God I hate circus music but it was playing very fast and the balls were in the air, like it or not.... keep juggling keep juggling and darn, wish I had some time and attention to make a better plan but I've been rocked back on my heels and this is where I live, caring for wee ones while H has all the time in the world to plan and carry it out. 

Darn. Anyway.... if I've posted as other posters.... it was bc my husband followed me here, twice.  In the heat of battle. Doesn't matter now, he knows who I'm posting under anyway.  Much tricksier than I, he is.

I can understand the confusion I've caused by sharing my story and identity with only a few. 

It's true, I have caused confusion. 

No denying that.

Guilty as charged.... just not always good to assume, not that there wasn't any help with making that assumption.

 Uh uh uh..... no making assumptions, LIGHTER!  Heh.  Sometimes I have to give myself a very sturdy talking to. 

Hops has always known who I am, she's kept up with my story.... not everyone has been privy and I can't fault certain posters for assuming I'm playing games with evil intentions aimed at the board. 

I see how that happened. 

Was afraid my lack of speaking freely about my situation would cause some troubles. 

I apologize for that now. 

My only other choice was to give up the support I found on the board, couldn't bring myself to do that.   

 Ahem....

I don't have much trouble just saying what I have to say..... but it's interesting to be accused of having sock puppet accounts.... like I'd need them to say how I really feel, lol. 

Heh....

now that's ironic but it would be interesting to see who really does post that way. 

Doc G knows.... it's not entirely secret, is it? 

::shrug:: 

When the wicked (general, pick any one that comes to mind) aren't obligated to follow the rules,  as long as they fly low enough under the wire...... then it's pretty much a game of surviving them.  There isn't any winning for those that follow the rules. 

I see how things can spiral out of control if someone doesn't exercise some stoic restraint.  Not much trouble figuringout who the only candidate for that's going to be.

If court was truly a fact finding mission, with a lie detector attached to every litigant, and their attorney, that would  make more sense..... maybe not be less of a game but, I sure don't like the way it's played now.

Couldn't be any less effective way of determining outcomes than controlling the judges emotions by telling the better story, and hoping you caught him on a good day.   Hired an attorney he plays golf with, etc.

Lordy Loo.... so much riding on a strangers unhappy participation.  They don't want to be involved in property disputes and divorce.... they punish everyone and they say that up front
 
In the meantime, someone else is struggling with having taken a stand on the board.   

Can't fault them for that....but it's easy to judge their efforts, isn't it? 

And I prefer the light of the board to what I consider somewhat dubiouse other lives in PM's, but that's just me. 

Takes the spotlight off what they're pointing at, in any case.

Welcome to the party. 

Not very satisfying. 

::shaking head::





 

[Lupita]

Can you tell me, please, what is the book of Dr. G, about assrtiveness?

Thank you.

[lighter]

I'm sorry, Lupita.  If I'm going to the bookstore for myself.....

I'm going to sit, have coffee and browse books  on assertiveness AND pick up Doc G's book, which I've been meaning to do for a while.

He doedsn't have a book on assertiveness.

[lighter]

((((Shunned))))

I think I knew that.....

it just keeps going in and out of focus: /