horrible headlines

[Hopalong]

...A father throwing his 4 children off a bridge to "show his wife he was the man of the house and was going to have this done his way..." [this is part of what alienated me from my childhood religion]

...A stepfather strangling and stabbing two little girls as part of a "ritual".

Poor kids.
Hard to imagine what they lived through before that.

Some men (and some women) place no value on children. Or women. They're property. And you can discard or destroy your property. This is America.

 

Hops

[lighter]

Do yu think these folks are, in teh main, generally emotionally disturbed to the point they should be institutionalized before they do something like this?

I tend to think these folks give off warnings before they do these things.... but people just don't want to listen or do something about it.

[lighter]

I did some research on handling future anti social personalities.

It's not good.

There are often indicators along the way.... bright red flags but.... they're ignored and left to come to some awful conclusion and I suppose funding and resources has to be a huge factor. 

If it only costs the community this guys 4 kids.... that's cheaper than helping them before they're dead, right?

[Hopalong]

I know abuse happens across genders, but because it is by far more often women and children who are victims, I believe it's a sense of gender-based entitlement that is taught to men. I believe one source of this misinformation is the Bible.

I know that Christians who "get it" do not use any written words, biblical or not, as justification for dehumanizing anyone. I'm truly not bashing kind Christian people...just the effect in society of the anity.

Anybody deprived of good parenting would be vulnerable, especially with so much desensitizing violence in society, to asserting their "privilege" over anyone smaller or weaker. Biologically, in the human race that is usually men.

Makes me very sad.

Hops

[Gabben]

I know that Christians who "get it" do not use any written words, biblical or not, as justification for dehumanizing anyone. I'm truly not bashing kind Christian people...just the effect in society of the anity.

Hi Hops!!!!!!! Just thought I would say hi and acknowledge you since it has been a while since we connected.

Hope that you are well?  You were also so kind and nice to me at one point as well as your insights were really good at times but then after I made that strong statement of spirituality on a hostile thread you begun to ignore me, was it punishment? I understand though and I forgive you.

Peace to you.
Lise

[Hopalong]

Hi, Lise...and welcome back.

Punishment? Yikes. No. Sorry I ignored you. I may have not known what to say.

To tell you the truth, I'm a senior moment on legs these days (partly due to Ambien). I honestly don't recall! When I saw your name again I remember associating it with troubled feelings and I remember you being upset but not the specifics. I know you did what you needed to do to take care of yourself, and that's good, imo. I'm glad you're feeling better.

I no longer often confuse a religion with the religious. It's one of the things this board experience has given me. Learning to trust --love-- people whom I once might have feared because of my own prejudice against an "ism" or an "ity". I've been treated very wonderfully by people who don't echo my religious beliefs, and I've yapped a lot here about being UU. Respect and tolerance goes both ways. I've been tolerated a whole lot.

I do "overdose" sometimes on testimony, and I keep thinking about Richard, and stuff, and wishing that in addition to Christian and non, there were more diverse voices. I would love to hear from Muslim, Buddhist, atheist, humanist, etc. But I also think it's reality. This is a predominantly Christian culture. In my daily life and church life I don't spend much time around Christians, so here is an opportunity. I vent now and then but it's not personal to anyone -- it's just part of what damaged me as a child. I draw a lot of my conclusions about what I think is wrong with Western culture from our religious origins.

I am always interested (not in debate, but in observing how others are strengthened by their faith), and sometimes I'm inspired. It's usually by a quality of character or wisdom or kindness that comes between the lines, rather than verses. I also think I have an underexercised metaphysical streak.

What a ramble.

thanks for asking,
Hops

[Gabben]

Hi Hops,

I'm so sorry for my punishment comment. Of course you did not mean me any harm, never deliberate, that is not you. I was being a little passively sarcastic there...my anger is still an issue for me and I have to work on it. But there is progress. Forgive me.

Sorry if I put you on the defensive. I just was very sensitive after that whole thing and it colored my perception of the actions of others here on the board.

Just last week I met a guy who had a near death experience. He is not Christian. He talked about religious choice being a factor in his experience. It was very interesting and it made me think that God would not lead a person with a devout buddist faith or Muslim faith to the afterlife and then tell them that their religion was all wrong....not the God I know.

Catholicism teaches to respect all faiths because God does.

I always enjoyed the respect and kindness you show to others here Hops, you would make a great Christian.

Love,
Lise

[Hopalong]

I am honored you would say that.

thank you, Lise.

Hops

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Amber.
You've been clearly so expanded by all that searching...I'm glad.
And you found your spiritual truth within yourself.

My poor D had her first meltdown last night...alone in a huge city hundreds of miles away, no cozy campus community. She walked me through her catalog of losses, how much damage divorce does to children. She feels she has no support system other than me. And she is so anxious. It was rough but she didn't take it out on me, so much as make demands out of anxiety that I couldn't meet. (E.g., "I need you to believe what I believe so I'll feel safer!" was the gist of it.) She mentioned church, since I've urged her to always touch base with that built-in community. I think she fears it and needs it at once. But now that she'll have health insurance (at last), she'll be able to get counseling if she chooses.

She had a good insight: maybe I need to not just ask you, Mom, but I need to be talking to other people in my situation, who are alone, who have no extended family. Maybe I can't really talk to you about this need. (It was shortly after saying that that she began talking about getting the insurance, and that's what makes me hope she'll get counseling or find a support group. I never bring it up first, as it was a power struggle in the past that I lost, which meant she lost.)

Nothing to do with thread topic...just rambling.

love,
Hops

[BonesMS]

Another horrible headline in DC where the bodies of four children were found, yesterday, in Southeast while their mother sat outside, in handcuffs, talking to herself.  The children had been dead for several weeks and were decomposed so badly that it was virtually impossible to know if they were boys or girls.  Today, the update given was that all four victims were girls, ages 5, 8, 11 and 17.  The question that is being asked is how is it possible for four children to disappear for weeks without SOMEONE noticing...neighbors, playmates knocking on the door, etc.

Bones

[reallyME]

ohhhhhhhh Gabben, what a debate we could get into on your post, but I'll be good and not go there.

I will however say that I was raised Catholic and I can discuss that lie with someone in another post.

~Laura

[mudpuppy]

I believe it's a sense of gender-based entitlement that is taught to men. I believe one source of this misinformation is the Bible.

I guess that is what accounts for the distinct lack of violence directed at women in Africa, the Mideast and Asia.

It must also be why those men who go to a Christian church at least weekly and pray with their wives and read their bibles daily, in other words the most devout Christians, have by far the lowest rates of adultery, divorce and violence.
Before responding, please note I did not say they have a zero rate of those pathologies.

mud

[Hopalong]

I would love it if she'd find a community online. But I need this one to stay private...she'd spot me fer sure. Thanks for the suggestion though Amber, maybe I'll send her some links that seem healthy.

Mud...point well TAKEN, my brother. Of course you're right. Entitlement over women isn't just a (warped) Judeo-Christian-Islamic-source theology--I guess that's just the sources I know. But you're right. It exists in most cultures, in myth, fairy tale, oral history. Poor Africa. Breaks my heart.

I just wonder how many generations/millenia it will take to undo it? I tried a feminist theology class once but was darned if I wanted to substitute matriarchy for patriarchy, or felt like admiring one more goddess potsherd. Big Transcendence, all I want for chirstmas...

Thanks for reminding me.

love
Hops

[Hopalong]

Hi Amber,

I did...I read lots of Lessing during my panic-ridden 20s.
I remember at one point deciding I couldn't read her any more.
She's brilliant but I got quite depressed.

I am such a wuss.

xo
Hops

[BonesMS]

Another horrible headline in DC where the bodies of four children were found, yesterday, in Southeast while their mother sat outside, in handcuffs, talking to herself.  The children had been dead for several weeks and were decomposed so badly that it was virtually impossible to know if they were boys or girls.  Today, the update given was that all four victims were girls, ages 5, 8, 11 and 17.  The question that is being asked is how is it possible for four children to disappear for weeks without SOMEONE noticing...neighbors, playmates knocking on the door, etc.

Bones

The news that came out today about this case is even worse than I could imagine.  These four innocent children had been lying dead in their mother's home for SEVEN MONTHS! 

Bones