Author Topic: How to deal with a visit from an N  (Read 8097 times)

Violet

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How to deal with a visit from an N
« on: June 24, 2004, 06:11:59 PM »
Hi,

I've been reading this board on and off for a long while, but this is my first post.  I'm absolutely desperate.  My father-in-law is a classic case N - he's even been profossionally diagnosed as such by two psychologists.

The problem is this:  He and and his doormat, er wife, are coming to visit for two weeks!  They were just here for two weeks over Christmas. It was such a nightmare that by the end no one was speaking to anyone.

I'm dreading this visit like mad.

I've read two oppsoing views on coping with an N's behavior. The first says to leave as soon as they begin their antics since abandonment is what they fear most.  The second said to come back at them with same amount of vehemence as they dish out.  Since they are complete cowards, the reasoning is they will back off.

What works best for you guys?  Anything???

Oh man. I just can't believe their coming back again!
 
In the past, we've point blank rudely told them not to come, and all that happens is the Wife calls and calls with sob stories about how sad N is and they just need to see us.  (Yeah!  Because he needs a fresh N supply.)  On two occasions, even faced with this kind of pressure, we held firm and you know what? They came anyway.  And it was hell, because it always is.

Our house is so peaceful and loving (not to mention clean) and within hours of their arrival nasty junk is everywhere, he's calling the wife a "fat wildebeest," playing his stupid guitar loud as hell outside, putting his son down, refusing the dinner I cook...

Short of a nuclear meltdown, what can I do to best ensure the most harmonious visit possible?

Anonymous

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How to deal with a visit from an N
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2004, 06:39:05 PM »
Your anticipation of this horrible visit is already very high!!  I've read the same about how to deal withthese people.  I for one have tried the --being venemous right back to them--bit I can't seem to get mean enough--no matter what I do.  I would strongly recommend a firm "NO". " Stay in a hotel, we have some other committments during this period" "Let's get together one night for dinner--at a restaurant"  The N will probably be on beter behavior so he can impress everyone in the place.  Why would you want to subject yourself and your lvoing family to this nightmare.  It absolutely sounds horrible.  empower yourself on this one!!  Then the visits will happen far less frequently or not at all!!  Good job trying to be proactive and put up the protective shield. Follow-through with it!!

Cplummer    CSHF

Violet

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How to deal with a visit from an N
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2004, 06:52:17 PM »
My folks live in town and my Dad is in bad health so I am planning on staying there all day and just coming back to my home to sleep.

That's the best I've been able to come up with thus far.

The last visit was so unbelievable that I think after twelve years of marriage to my husband, I have finally developed a full-blown allergic reaction to my in-laws!

Thanks for responding. I'll try to take deep soothing breaths!

sonia

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How to deal with a visit from an N
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2004, 09:52:01 PM »
Violet,

Do you have kids? And if you do, have you thought about the impact this visit would have on them? What's with your H? Can he not stand up to these folks.

Sorry to ask so many questions. But this seems severe. And destructive to you and family. Why do they stay with you?

Sonia

Anonymous

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How to deal with a visit from an N
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2004, 11:03:24 PM »
I am confused as to how these people will gain access to your home for two weeks, when they aren't even invited. There is no way to lessen the horror based on your description. You've already paid your dues with these idiots. They shouldn't even get past the door.

bunny

Violet

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The Family Dynamic
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2004, 12:19:50 AM »
Part of the problem is that for their entire married life (30+ years), my mother in-law has presented this front that everything is fine and that her husband is just sensitive.  When the boys came along, the cardinal rule in the house was "don't upset Dad, no matter what." She never has acknowledged to anyone, including herself, that her husband has any kind of problem aside from being sensitive.  

The boys had, like many children of Ns, assumed that they were as flawed as their father had led them to believe and that essentially they were to blame for most everything.  It has only been since the boys have married and been exposed to their wive's normal families that they have learned their household was dysfunctional as hell.

Since then, the boys (one of whom is my husband, of course) have distanced themselves from them, but both men are good, compassionate, loving and warm and it simply is not within them to cut their father and mother off.  

It's all such a farce though.  No one has ever come right out and said, "N you're a mean-spirited jerk and I don't want you in my house."  How could we?  He gets away with most of his obnoxious behavior because the rest of us are civilized and polite.

Nonetheless, the sons feel tied to this farce because of their mother. They pity her and are disgusted with her frequently, but they view her as a victim and simply feel they cannot abandon her.  She falls to pieces if N gets himself in a snit, which in turn makes the boys feel terrible since it is usually they who inspire the snit.

Although, the last time N paced in front of our house for 4 hours like a deranged psycho was when I politely asked him to turn down his guitar since the night before my husband and I been in the ER all night miscarrying a child and we both needed an afternoon nap.  The upside to this snit, and most of the others, is that N refuses to speak to the offending party for at least 1/2 a day.

Although we've wanted children for several years, none have come our way. However, I can tell you my sister in-law never leaves her children alone with their grandparents.  She is afraid of what might happen to them since N is so impulsive, manipulative and weird.  One time she caught N telling her 7 year old son that he didn't need to finish his dinner because he was already getting fat.  (By the way, it should come as no surprise to you seasoned vets that the boy is not at all overweight, but it is only N's projection of himself onto the tyke and his skewed world view.)

I wish the situation was so simple as to say, "I'm sorry, but we can't see you anymore."  Barring N doing something violent, I don't see this as a possibility.  My husband's solution has simply been to not rely on them for any emotional support whatsoever.  He doesn't expect it of them and he doesn't, in turn, share any of himself with them.  I'm sorry for them, because they've got a great kid, but MIL is too concerned with N to care about anyone else and N is too concerned with himself to care about anyone else.

Anonymous

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How to deal with a visit from an N
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2004, 12:48:54 AM »
Two weeks is a long amount of time for anyone to visit.  You shouldn't feel bad about asking them to limit their visit to a reasonable length or to stay in a hotel.

Violet

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How to deal with a visit from an N
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2004, 01:15:56 AM »
Here's the deal with the visit lengths: they lie.  Like this time, they said to my husband (he was on the phone with his mother so I only heard one half of the conversation) they'd like to come and visit for 5 days.  He says okay (why bother arguing anymore?), when do you plan to stay?  They say on a Thursday, we'll spend two weekends at your place, then leave the following Tuesday.

When he gets off the phone he tells me this and I start doing a little math. I tell him, it's not 5 days it's more like 12-13 days.  He looks perplexed for a second then says, "oh yeah, they said they're going to spend some time in another town with a friend of Mom's."  

By this time we had rubbed the sleep out of our eyes (they always call very late) and then we both said, sort of laughingly, "They said they would do that when they were here over Christmas and they didn't."

Plus that, I know Lynn's friend and I know for a fact that she hates N and he hates her too.  N just said they'd visit the friend. He has no intention of doing so, I just know it.  

As for the hotel, I know this is hard to believe, but they are too cheap to rent a room, they would just sleep out in the car.  I kid you not, they've done this on vacations and other trips before.  My SiL and I died laughing when we first heard that Chris Farley skit "I sleep in a van down by the river" it reminded us so much of our in-laws.

Oh yeah, I forgot, if they plan to stay for awhile, but know that you don't want them to, they will not tell you when they plan to leave.  They suddenly act like they are free spirits who couldn't possibly plan a departure in advance. It does no good to say "we need to know," because they just counter with "do whatever you would do if we weren't here."  

But, you know, it's hard to do the happy dance about your in-laws once again being 500 miles away when they are still sitting on your sofa!

October

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How to deal with a visit from an N
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2004, 05:12:27 AM »
Oh my goodness!!!  This sounds just like my mum and dad, except my mum is the destructive N, and my dad is the one who says she is 'just highly strung'.  

And the reason I live just two miles from them is that I never have them to stay and I never have to stay at theirs!!!!!!  No matter how late, no matter how bad the weather, I can always come home!!

So I am not sure what I would do if I were faced with a visit of two weeks.  What a prospect!!!  I can hardly bear it when they come for half an hour.  Stoney silence from my mum, who can't act out here like she can elsewhere, and who falls asleep on purpose if I put films on telly that she doesn't like.  Her way of saying she wants to go home is to yawn loudly and persistently.

So if this is the N way of saying 'time to leave' maybe you could try it.  Lol!!!  Yawn loudly.  Go to bed early and leave them to it.  Have prearranged evenings out with friends - sold out ticket events preferably.

Best of all is to say 'sorry it is not convenient', but I accept that for some Ns this is just not in their vocabulary.

I have a real problem with boundaries, as any ACON will.  My brothers and my parents all treat my house as if they can come and go at will without ever checking that it is ok with me.  If I am in, they think that is all that counts.

Not sure what else to suggest.  I will see if anything occurs to me later.  Good luck!!

Portia

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How to deal with a visit from an N
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2004, 07:00:58 AM »
Hiya Violet. This is what I see:

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when I politely asked him to turn down his guitar since the night before my husband and I been in the ER all night miscarrying a child and we both needed an afternoon nap.
 My goodness I’m angry on your behalf! You asked him? Where was your hubby? Couldn’t he have asked? Hey, you did the miscarrying (and I’m sorry you did, that’s a sad event), not your hubby. Your body. Everyone should have been looking after you, caring for you, worrying about you. You! Not hubby, Violet - you. Stuff everyone else.

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When he gets off the phone he tells me this and I start doing a little math. I tell him, it's not 5 days it's more like 12-13 days. He looks perplexed for a second then
 It seems to me you’re taking (and being given?) all the responsibility for this. Does your hubby ask you if the visit is okay with you?

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what can I do to best ensure the most harmonious visit possible
 why should you do anything?

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He says okay (why bother arguing anymore?), when do you plan to stay?
 Maybe he should discuss with you first before agreeing?
 
On the other hand, if you want to take responsibility for dealing with this father-in-law, have you read this? Posted ages ago, sorry can’t remember who by, but kept in my store:
http://ceres.ca.gov/tcsf/pathways/chapter12.html#interacting

This is just my opinion, based on what you’ve said. Please take it or leave it  :) P

Violet

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How to deal with a visit from an N
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2004, 09:08:50 AM »
Thanks for the support everybody.

I should probably say a word about my husband's relationship with his parents.  He doesn't stand up to them as often as he should and that is, obviously, a problem.  I always try to be sensitive to his feelings on this particular subject.  I can't imagine how horrible it must have been to grow up in that house.  I sympathize with him and I know he is trying, but it's tough.  He may never get to a healthy point with his parents and that's okay.  They are his Achilles' heel.

I should note that my husband is not the only one who let's N have his way most of the time.  N is hands down the most difficult human being I have ever met. He pushes the whole time you are in his presence.  With single-minded determination, he forces every single subject, every activity, all of it, to spotlight on him.  

N acts exactly like a hyper, attention-hungry three year old.  He is exhausting.  The first few days of any visit, my husband and I both equally censure his behavior, but it's an unrelenting job.  Let's just take for example one of his habits.  Whenever he sits on my couch, he puts his disgusting feet on my grandmother's antique coffee table.  I have told him 900 times not to do this. Everytime I say to take the feet off, he does, immediately, but not without first a smart alec remark.  But then, what do you do when you come home and find him sitting there with his feet on the table again?  Tell him again, right?  And again and again...

He is just bound and determined to do whatever he wants, how he wants and whenever he wants.  This willfulness is made worse by the fact that most of his ideas and decisions are completely idiotic.

You never get a moment of rest with him. The whole time is spent trying to control his behavior and it's just exhausting. When I asked him to turn the guitar down, I went out to do this because I had been resting all day. My husband, on the other hand, had just laid down.  He had been taking care of me like a barefooted saint for the past several weeks, and I wanted to take care of him a little bit. He was so tired, so frustrated and hurting over our loss too.  So I just told N to turn it down. Of course, I didn't know that this one simple polite request would be the thing that made him blow.

You never know. He is manipulative as hell and uses that threat of a nuclear meltdown to keep people from censuring him.  Thus, every time, I or my husband tell him to pick his used band-aids up off the floor or not to tear the pool patio apart looking for the leak, or not to demean women - we feel our stomachs clench in preparation of a colossal hissy fit.

His behavior is just exhausting. He wears you down.  After awhile, it's hard not to just agree to everything.  And then comes the really joyful part, watching N gloat about his victory.  After we've given up and we're both nervous wrecks, he'll start smearing our faces in his behavior.  When I enter a room and look at his feet on the table he just looks back at me and waits for me to say something and if I don't, he goes back to watching TV or whatever with this smirk on his face. It's the same with the guitar, he'll pull it out and look right at you as he makes this grand gesture of strumming the first chord.

He thinks he's won the war, but he's losing the battle.  With every visit, my husband grows more and more disgusted with him.  I could not live with myself if I was the one who separated my husband from his parents permanently.  I think I could do it, but my god, disowning someone - parents - that's so big.  I respect and understand people who have done this with their N parents, and I wish my husband would do the same, but I can't be the one to force his hand on this.

I'm sorry these are so long - I seem to be spilling without end.

Portia

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How to deal with a visit from an N
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2004, 09:30:26 AM »
Keep talking Violet, that’s what the board’s here for and please don’t be sorry for long posts. :D  Long posts are good. I loved your reply, very honest. Thank you.

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But then, what do you do when you come home and find him sitting there with his feet on the table again?
You tell him that if he does it one more time, you won’t let him sit on your sofa EVER AGAIN. It’s exactly like dealing with a 6 year old. And you have to treat them the same. And you have to enforce those boundaries. Very difficult, because where will it end?

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I respect and understand people who have done this with their N parents, and I wish my husband would do the same, but I can't be the one to force his hand on this.
No, you can’t and I admire the way you support him. But you don’t have to sacrifice yourself and your own life to support him. You matter too. This father-in-law would drive me nuts. I couldn’t take it. I’d have to leave the house completely, go away for the whole time they’re there. Maybe get hubby to buy me a health spa retreat holiday 8)  rather than be forced to put up with his obnoxious father. Please don’t think by putting up with him you are helping mother-in-law either. It’s like having an alcoholic in the family. Everyone supports the alcoholism by living around it….know what I mean? Best, P

Jaded

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How to deal with a visit from an N
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2004, 09:47:22 AM »
Violet,

OH my gosh, hurry pack all of your chit up and move to another country.  Pssst, dont leave a forwarding address.

Violet, I dealt with the nastiest of the nasties and he will tell you himself that I shook the chit right out of him when I gave him the dickens back.  You can just see their expressions on their face change as if to say, what what what did you say dat for?  I could not understand how N people could stand to your face, look you in the eyes, see the pain in your face, and they get supply out of this?  They feel powerful when they see hurt in their victims?  Sick isnt it.

When I tell you that I got down and rolled around in the dirt just as well as he did, hun, I am ashamed to admit some of the things I said to him.  However, I can also say that those were the times that I noticed I could break down his barriors and plow right on into his gates of hell.

I guess I thought of it as me being a weak wimpy kid on a playground with him being the playground bully who always shoved me down to steal my lunch and milk money.  I could only take so much and I flippin snapped on him.  Snort, Snort!!  

I do not know how I would handle this if I were in your situation.  I think it is totally rude, crude and unacceptable that your father in law would walk into your house and act like the king of YOUR kingdom.  Why violet, I am afraid I would shove his crown where the sun don't shine and that would be as his ars was hitting the sidewalk outside my front door.  

You thank the heavens that your Husband did not gain his wicked ways.  I just can not imagine being a child in that environment.  It always strikes me funny how N can dish it out but they can not take it.  Talk about the flip side of reality.  They just do not get it do they??

Another option is that you infest your house with all the viruses you can muster up, undercook his meat, purchase 100 pets that are not potty trained, and paint your house a bright metalic purple from the inside out and hope that this will detour them from visiting ever, ever again.  If this doesnt work, then hatch up another plan. LOL!!

Doh, how does this seem to you!! :twisted:  :D

Violet

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How to deal with a visit from an N
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2004, 10:01:01 AM »
Thanks, P.

N so takes advantage of the fact that most of us are uncomfortable treating a 63 year old like a 3 year old.  I think you're right though. Instead of asking politely that he take the feet off the table, it's time to take the gloves off and be rude.

This my hang-up.  It is so hard to go against everything I was taught as a child!  I'm Southern and it was ingrained in me from the womb to be polite and gracious especially to my elders and my guests.  

I have decided I'm not cleaning my house (they'll just destroy it anyway). I'm not cooking a single meal for them. My husband plans to work the whole time and I plan to spend every day away from them.  I'm throwing the fuse on the outside plugs and locking the fuse box so N doesn't offend my neighbors with his "concerts."

Kicking a puppy would feel more natural than doing this!

Jaded911

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How to deal with a visit from an N
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2004, 10:30:26 AM »
Violet,

I completely understand your feelings when you say this goes against everything you were taught as a child.  I thought that alot when I was rolling in the dirt with my N.  

I never intentionally say or do anything that could offend or hurt someones feelings.  I have no excuse for my behavior with him I just have experience from dealing with him.  Those experiences showed me a different side of human nature that I had never known before.

I guess I just felt that I was fighting for my emotional life when he attacked or belittled me.  It was my upbringing that allowed me to tollerate for so long.  So I understand completely what you mean by that.  

I also understand that at times it is best to fight fire with fire.  It seems like the more you allow these people to run over you, the more they travel down that path.  I can only speak about the N that I tangled with.  When I stood up to him in a very direct manner and I stated things in a factual way, he seemed to back down a bit.

I wouldnt always take the "hey buddy dont mess with me" approach.  That approach only came when he refused to retract his claws.  At times I am ashamed to admit, I had bigger balls then I dreamed I could.  That took a heck of alot because I am a girl and not a big one at that.  My N could and did get physical with me at times with one time resulting in me getting my rib broke.  The next time he came at me I told him you touch me and I swear to God I will kick you ever luvin ars and if I dont, I'll die tryin.  Well to him that was an invitation.  By the end of that roll in the dirt, he was calming me down with tears rolling down his face.

I offer my manners and skills from my upbringing to everyone and anyone.  But the minute anyone abuses my rights and comes at me one to many times, I come out of the corner swingin.  

I have often thought about this.  It seems like the people who maintain their manners and thoughtfullness of others seem to be the people who get screwed over most of the time.  It seems that bullies or wanna be biggies plow right over those people because they are easy targets and give very little back when confronted.  

Manners and thoughtfullness towards other human beings is a wonderful thing to have and it is something to be proud of.  The second someone stops acting like a human being is when I throw all of my manners and thoughtfullness right out the flippin window.  With me you give respect and you will get it in return.  You disrespect me one to many times and lordy be this girl gets her boxing gloves out.
Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me!

Jaded