Around the Barn

[Certain Hope]

A week ago yesterday, I saved this post of CB's because I thought it was worthy of a thread of its own.
In the meanwhile, the thread to which she posted it wound up being deleted by the creator of that thread... so I asked
CB whether it was okay with her if I re-posted this and she said sure.
So here it is - because I think that each of us has one of these old barns in our lives...
and if we don't deal with those barns, they can sure make a mess as they come tumbling down.

Carolyn



I don't think it's just me--I think I'm really seeing something universal.  But maybe someone can fine tune what I'm seeing:

I don't think we ever get past anything.  I think we keep going around the same barn and every time we do it, we do it a little bit better.  I think that reality is reality and there isnt any that is new or better (or old and worse).

I am genuinely dumbfounded at how I gravitate to the same barn.  I am trying to decide if that's because there's only one available--and we are all going around it--or whether it is my barn of choice.

But I do know that I am growing up--and everytime I do it, I do it a little better.  I have never received any enlightenment that made me see everything clearly and that gave me the strength to do everything differently.  It's more like painting a picture:  you layer the paint on in layers, and you can't really see what needs to be done next until the layer before has dried.  When it does, you go back at the painting again with another dimension to fill in. 

That's what my life is beginning to look like.  I am always going to run into the same conflicts.  But I am getting better and better at dealing with them.  Each time, I have a better picture of what I want to change in my response.  I am always going to run into N's.  And if I think I can avoid them, I am going to be barricaded behind my apartment door in fear.  I am starting to be better at keeping them at arms length, but not getting slimed by them.

..... try this:  if you are hearing anything here that you've heard before, try going around the barn differently than the last time you went around it.  If you normally argue, don't.  If you normally run, stay.  If you normally explain yourself, listen.  If you are normally dogmatic, be tentative.  If you normally have all the answers, focus on the questions. Every time  you go around the barn you get a little better at it. 

[Bella_French]

This was a great post, thanks so much for saving it!!!

Something cyclical about my own life that I notice is the way I so easily find myself in groups that are like a `duplicate'  family. Sometimes the group is a bunch of friends, where the `loci' of the group is someone Narcissistic. Often its a work situation.

My role is often the same one: I am the talented one; the high-performer who initially reflects well on the group and who everyone needs and likes. But after a while, the N's within the group (often in power positions) become uncomfortable with that, and target me for excessive control, and if that fails, then abuse.

I've done that one over and over!!




 

[Certain Hope]

Aha!  Yes... thank you, Bella, for that bit of direction! 

You've helped me to see just how much I've broken out of my age-old role of being the quiet, conscientious, helpful, submissive one. Now on my third month into my job outside the home (after being out of the workforce for several years)
there's not much difference on the outside, except I feel considerably more confident and so...
the folks whom I would previously have found to be intimidating are not nearly so fearsome.
I'm still fairly quiet, and conscientious, and helpful, too, BUT - I no longer feel responsible for picking up everyone else's slack, nor do I cow down to the demands of the more aggressive, pushy sorts (and oh yes, we have one or two of those).

Yay!!

Thanks again, Bella... I read these things and think to myself - "I know there's alot of good stuff wrapped up in there", but often don't know where to begin with pinpointing it.

Love,
Carolyn

[Bella_French]

That is so great Carolyn! What is your boss and the people in power  like? If i were choosing a job nowadays, I would not work there if my boss/ supervisor was an N. N's as colleagues/ equals usally undo themselves, so i could cope with that.

X Bella

 

[Izzy_*now*]

Thank you Hope,

If you normally explain yourself, listen.

That reminds me of "don't make excuses and never explain." I feel that long-winded explanations from someone about himself are more like trying to convince the explainer himself, not the listener. I also think the explantion is a winding trail to throw the listener off the main issue.

If you normally run, stay.

I ran so much and took myself with me. I left too many issues unresolved to a reasonably friendly conclusion.

Love
Izzy

[Certain Hope]

Well...  I haven't tried to sort them by eccentricity or anything... lol... but now that I think about it, I'd say there are a couple very N'ish sorts, a passive-aggressive, an avoidant, and a drama queen. LOL... oy.
As far as whose the boss, well - it's a bunch of women and the one who's s'posed to be the boss is the avoidant one, so guess who tries to take over her role? Yup - the very N'ish sorts.  But it doesn't work, because I play by the book and have made it a very clear point to ask my questions and seek my direction ONLY from Miss Avoidant, lest I end up with multiple bosses.
heh.
Basically, I work independently and am responsible for my own duties, which are quite clear-cut and predictable, so there's no need for micromanaging... thankfully (although one N-ish sort has certainly tried).  

I'd say that, all in all, this is the best I've ever felt about going into a new place and fitting in, at my own pace and within my own comfort level. And I must say... all of that, I owe to God's grace and my experience here on this board!

Bella, I am beginning to think that there is going to be an N-Star (at least one) in every group, whether it's at work or church or within some recreational activity we might pursue. I guess what I'm learning is that I am more than happy to allow the N to sparkle (hah, had enough practice with my brother, in that regard) but also I'm not afraid anymore to stand nose to nose with one if they want to *talk smack*, as my husband says. OH, and staying out of the gossip circle has helped enormously, too.

Love,
Carolyn

[Certain Hope]

Thank you Hope,

If you normally explain yourself, listen.

That reminds me of "don't make excuses and never explain." I feel that long-winded explanations from someone about himself are more like trying to convince the explainer himself, not the listener. I also think the explantion is a winding trail to throw the listener off the main issue.

If you normally run, stay.

I ran so much and took myself with me. I left too many issues unresolved to a reasonably friendly conclusion.

Love
Izzy

Dear Izzy,

I really appreciate your comments here.

You know, my very Nish mother often told me not to explain. That only caused me to want to explain even more.

Now I realize that what I was seeking was any sort of interaction, a meeting of minds and hearts, and - probably - approval. I just wanted someone else to know me and try to understand.
But her m.o. was simply to charge ahead, regardless of how anyone else was impacted, and never explain a thing... or even offer an opportunity for discussion. I know that she thought of me as pitiful and weak, for sticking with my own way of being, but I saw the alternative as being a cold, flat, unemotional, and lonely person. I think that finally, I am able to strike a balance. There are some things in my life which are simply a given, non-negotiable and not subject to explanation. Others... well, depending on the person involved, I will choose whether or not the emotional investment of explaining is wise... or not.

I've always been a runner, too, Iz. I have never, ever, stayed for the long haul... not even with myself... till now.
And I didn't suddenly become enlightened and leap into a new awareness...
just ran out of places to run.

Love to you, Izzy... thanks.

Carolyn

[Bella_French]

Well...  I haven't tried to sort them by eccentricity or anything... lol... but now that I think about it, I'd say there are a couple very N'ish sorts, a passive-aggressive, an avoidant, and a drama queen. LOL... oy.
As far as whose the boss, well - it's a bunch of women and the one who's s'posed to be the boss is the avoidant one, so guess who tries to take over her role? Yup - the very N'ish sorts.  But it doesn't work, because I play by the book and have made it a very clear point to ask my questions and seek my direction ONLY from Miss Avoidant, lest I end up with multiple bosses.
heh.
Basically, I work independently and am responsible for my own duties, which are quite clear-cut and predictable, so there's no need for micromanaging... thankfully (although one N-ish sort has certainly tried). 

I'd say that, all in all, this is the best I've ever felt about going into a new place and fitting in, at my own pace and within my own comfort level. And I must say... all of that, I owe to God's grace and my experience here on this board!

Bella, I am beginning to think that there is going to be an N-Star (at least one) in every group, whether it's at work or church or within some recreational activity we might pursue. I guess what I'm learning is that I am more than happy to allow the N to sparkle (hah, had enough practice with my brother, in that regard) but also I'm not afraid anymore to stand nose to nose with one if they want to *talk smack*, as my husband says. OH, and staying out of the gossip circle has helped enormously, too.

Love,
Carolyn

It's really so wonderfully different when you walk into a  group, and you know what you're in for, huh? It sounds like you are highly empowered there Carolyn; I am so happy for you!

X bella

[Certain Hope]

Oh, thank you, Bella. I hope that my newfound sense of competence will transfer over to other groups in which I may have an opportunity to participate.

Truly, at the start of this situation, I was virtually in shock after being a stay-at-home for so long, plus still struggling with regulating my blood pressure. Basically, I was so focused on simply learning my llittle job routine and... actually... enjoying being out of the house... alot of the stuff which could have been more troubling slid right on by me.
It still strikes me as so peculiar...
back when I had so much of my mother's influence flowing through me, I'd have described myself as someone who didn't much like or enjoy people... and that is not a bit true! I love being out with the public, especially in a service capacity, and although I am very glad to get back to my home in the evenings, I wouldn't want to return to my old hermit-ish ways.

(((((((((Bella)))))))))) thanks again, so much, for drawing these realizations out into the open for me!

Love,
Carolyn

[Certain Hope]

How sweet of you, Carolyn, to resurrect my post! 

back when I had so much of my mother's influence flowing through me, I'd have described myself as someone who didn't much like or enjoy people... and that is not a bit true! I love being out with the public, especially in a service capacity, and although I am very glad to get back to my home in the evenings, I wouldn't want to return to my old hermit-ish ways.

This struck me, because it has been exactly my experience.  After several of those long, isolated years on the farm, I had about convinced myself that I was a hermit.  I had made peace with my life and I had come to find enjoyment in the solitary things I had to do.  I think it's good that I learned that skill--of blooming where I was planted, so to speak.

But I was so wrong about who I was.  (I had planned on getting a job as a medical transcriptionist and working from home--I look at that plan now, and am amazed that I thought I could do that).  What I have ended up doing is very, very out in the public and I have settled into it like I have done it all my life.  And I would have never known that that was what I was supposed to do.

I guess the moral of the story is that we can't really get a good handle on who we are when we are living under the shadow of an N and his/her influence.  It's just too oppressive.  We have to do too much "going along to get along".  I know that many, many of you all here have described yourselves as naturally loners.  Hold that label loosely.  I still need to have "down time" and have to regroup on a regular basis.  But, my kids would tell you, I am a completely different person than anyone thought that I was.

Love,
CB

Oh CB... I am so glad you logged in! I'd meant to re-post this back when I first asked you, but then... well, you know... and now just seemed like the ideal time.

I SO completely understand what you've written here and just this evening, so many more actualities have come to light for me.

Even just having Bella ask me a couple questions about work...
I realized how unaccustomed I am to having anyone ask me questions about me.
I mean, my husband will, sometimes, but it's not the same...
and for whatever reason, I seem to need that in order to draw out of myself what's still lying buried there.
Which reminds me, one of the ladies at work asked me a couple questions about my life... and I felt that she really was only being nosy, but that didn't deter me from trying to respond. Felt my ears getting hot as I was answering, but... I made it! And somehow, that broke the ice for me in general, so that I don't fear such questions any more.
Hmm... I'm babbling... but anyway,
YES! It is so neat to finally discover some new things about myself which are so different from the boxes the N and Nish have tried to stuff me into. I am not who they presumed I was... and no one will ever do that to me again. THAT is relief... and pure joy.

You said:

"I guess the moral of the story is that we can't really get a good handle on who we are when we are living under the shadow of an N and his/her influence.  It's just too oppressive.  We have to do too much "going along to get along".

That's the truth! And I join you in encouraging those who have not yet discovered their hidden realities to not accept any previous labels or identities. It is so painful to shed them and stand naked while waiting for the discovery... but as we make it a pro-active waiting and continue stepping forward in faith, entire realms of new possibilities present themselves.

CB, I am so happy for you that you've found your place to shine... and that place is within you, so you can take it everywhere you will go.

With love,
Carolyn

[Leah]

But it doesn't quite work like that. We still have the same thought patterns; we still have the same memories. The truth doesn't quite "set you free", in the way Ami is hoping. Instead, we have to work - HARD - to change the thoughts, the relationship we have with ourselves, and teach our selves new ways of "being" - and not just while interacting with people. In that process, we do go around the barn more times than we want! But like CB said - you get better at it! You recognize the patterns, and even if some new wrinkle - new information - comes up, you have skills for dealing with it...

I agree, Amber

Merely voicing "the truth will set you free" does nothing.

Jesus spoke "the truth will set you free" ..... when you do something with the truth!  He expected hearers, to do, in their life.

That is, by doing something with the truth!

Realization of the truth  ~  Acutualization of the truth.     By applying it to ones life.

Otherwise, empty words.   

The difference, I have realized, from my own personal life, both, one way and the other.

>  Also, Information, Patterns, to discern and decide, and act upon, is important for a healthy balanced informed life with choice.


Thank you for your most insightful posting, Amber

Grateful.

Love, Leah

[Bella_French]

So well said, Amber, and Leah! Amber I think you put it beautifully. I agree that after the truth is seen, it needs to be acted upon to be meaningful.

I am so guilty of having danced around with the knowledge I have gained, digging deeper and deeper, when I really needed to take action. I was afraid. Ending or changing relationships always put the fear of death into me. So I tend to `dance around' for ages, because its easier to do that than actually change anything.

Lol, but i did eventually. It was just hard, and waiting so long didn't build the self respect I might have gained if I'd taken action earlier on, if you know what I mean?

I also think theres only so much you can do with the truth when you're still enmeshed with abusive people, or dependent on them.  They will give you skewed & negative feedback, maybe even punish you, for moving in the right direction. I found  have more courage to take action now, because my partner is NOT abusive and I am not dependent on him to support me financially, or anything like that. Its much easier to grow with sucha person, because I don't feel like the consequences will be dire.

X Bella

[Leah]

I also think theres only so much you can do with the truth when you're still enmeshed with abusive people, or dependent on them.  They will give you skewed & negative feedback, maybe even punish you, for moving in the right direction. I found  have more courage to take action now, because my partner is NOT abusive and I am not dependent on him to support me financially, or anything like that. Its much easier to grow with sucha person, because I don't feel like the consequences will be dire.

X Bella


Thanks, Bella

That is so true.

The difference in having some truth and not being able to put it into action, as I was still enmeshed with my NM

and making the decision to go No Contact ~ with the truth applied in action to my life, for a life.

Awesome reality.

Likewise, with my NF in limited contact (now very limited indeed).

Love, Leah

PS >>>       And, of course, my XNH is in the past!

[Certain Hope]

Hi,

I've just read the responses here and have so appreciated the views and insights expressed... thank you all.

There's something I've been wanting to say here for some time about this business of the truth...
and I think that this is the time.
For those who do not accept the Bible as God's authoritative word, please allow me this brief excursion...
and for those who do believe the Bible and yet may disagree with my little excursion, I say to you what my pastor says to folks when he teaches:  "I'm not mad at you... don't be mad at me."   

Anyhow, here it is, in context, from the Gospel of John chapter 8:

So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him,
"If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 
 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
 
  They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone;
how is it that You say, 'You will become free'?" 

  Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. 

  The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. 

  So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed."

Okay, so I'm hoping you'll see the condition for discipleship and knowing the truth...
and also...
maybe you'll see the difference (slight, I know... please don't hate me for bein picky about words) between
being set free and being made free. Please be patient, I really am getting to a point here (I hope).

When I think of being set free, I picture locked doors being flung open and getting caught up in a flood of released prisoners, all charging through the opening into freedom!

But when I think of being made free, I imagine a sleeping person whose shackles have been loosed, but he doesn't yet know that...
and even when he rouses from slumber, he's still unaware...
that he could get up at any time and walk away...
that he's been made free...
but it is up to him to take the steps into that liberty.

I sure hope that made some sense. Thank you all for your patience.

With love,
Carolyn

[Leah]

But when I think of being made free, I imagine a sleeping person whose shackles have been loosed, but he doesn't yet know that...
and even when he rouses from slumber, he's still unaware...
that he could get up at any time and walk away...
that he's been made free...
but it is up to him to take the steps into that liberty.

"Awake O Sleeper"    

and Know that you are Free


Ephesians 5:14-20

Love, Leah