Author Topic: Or you just cannot stand certain people?  (Read 7971 times)

Lupita

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Re: Or you just cannot stand certain people?
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2008, 11:15:44 AM »
Thank you so much Lea. That is exactly what happenes when I encounter or interact with people like my mother.

CH, that is why I wanted to practice with someone. I read it in David Bruns book. He agued with his patients until they came to a conclussion that they on their own were saying what they needed to say to start the healing.

I need to argue with someone wise enough to not get mad when I say something that he or she does not like, until I am flooded.

I was thinking on GFM she is such an N, impossible to communicate with her, she makes me crazy, and pray for my son not to marry her daughter, but, she gets me paralized. I cannot practice with her because I get totally inutilized by her presence.

Certain Hope

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Re: Or you just cannot stand certain people?
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2008, 11:37:32 AM »
Dear Lupita,

I understand the need... and I do some of that sort of arguing with my husband, on a limited basis, because I know that he won't reject me for disagreeing with his view. On the other hand, I also know that he's only human and I don't want to abuse the privilege of his patience and understanding.
Maybe paying a therapist is the best human way to get it all out of the system and not receive a cold shoulder... but that's not an option for me.
I argue with God, too, at times... and He is never rejecting, always standing by and willing to hear my differences... but that's different, because I always know that He is right and so I don't try to hold onto my position too long when it doesn't meet with His agreement.

Hmm... actually, Lupita, I think you've done some of this disagreeing/ mild arguing right here on the board, without getting rejected or angry response, so... I'd say that it's possible here, too - on a limited basis.

Love,
Carolyn

Lupita

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Re: Or you just cannot stand certain people?
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2008, 11:43:08 AM »
You said it. ON limited bases. I hav to walk on egg shells. if you knew all my thoughts you would bemad at me. So, I have to be very careful. So, limited bases. Limited.

I wish I had somebody I could talk about everything. I guess I will have to pay him or her. About all my disgust.

I yes, here, it was teh frist time I understood what a boundary was.

And I have not been rejected yet. Hope that never happenes, always have the fear.

Certain Hope

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Re: Or you just cannot stand certain people?
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2008, 11:51:03 AM »
Lupita,

If I knew all of your thoughts I would disagree with at least some of them, I am sure...

and it's the same for you with me.
If you knew all of my thoughts, you would surely disagree with at least some of them.

For instance, I know how you feel/think about women who are homemakers and do not work outside their homes to earn a paycheck.  I disagree with you about that, but I am not mad at you. That thought/feeling of yours is only one aspect of your entire personhood - - it does not define you.

I think that we can tell a mature, sane person exactly how we feel and what we think about issues without causing a rift.
The rifts come when we take one of our own thoughts/feelings about a person and then place a label on that person and tell them: "You are (this label)".

Love,
Carolyn

Lupita

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Re: Or you just cannot stand certain people?
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2008, 12:05:44 PM »
I understand. You have to be able to communicate with the person. But, sometimes you find persons who you cannot communicate.
Like GFM and others, and that is what makes me triggered.

So, that is what I am working on. And keep insisting with the flooding. That is practice. Like a piano lesson. You practice, but the teacher shows you how to practice. I need a teacher now. I will try to find a teacher on that.

Like here on limited bases.

Certain Hope

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Re: Or you just cannot stand certain people?
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2008, 12:12:53 PM »
Right, Lupita.

I don't think you can let GFM be your direct teacher. And I can't let a person who stirs up huge  feelings of helpless frustration and annoyance in me get close enough to make a mark on my mood. Practicing in the smaller things, confronting little grievances with people who can be trusted not to hit back - that's the way to learn, I think. And also practicing clearer communication skills... for instance, with one person who is currently determined to pretend to be my boss at work, my only responses right now are:

" I see. "
and
" All is well. "

 End of discussion.

 :D

Love,
Carolyn

Lupita

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Re: Or you just cannot stand certain people?
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2008, 12:19:31 PM »
CH, I just wanted to add, that at the beginning in the board, I only connected with CB and Hopalong. Now, I started connecting with you  Lighter, and Lea, and Overcomer, and Axa, and many others, that I felt uncomprehensible before. So, I most be improving.
I have to accept human beings, accept them as they are, no matter if they are like my mother, not suffer because anybody remains me of my mother.
That is wat I need to do. I guess.

And I can't let a person who stirs up huge  feelings of helpless frustration and annoyance in me get close enough to make a mark on my mood

That really stroke me. You are right.

Lupita

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Re: Or you just cannot stand certain people?
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2008, 12:28:33 PM »
Hermes, I just saw your note, thank you for your good wishes.

Certain Hope

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Re: Or you just cannot stand certain people?
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2008, 12:32:32 PM »
Lupita, again... I understand... me, too! Can feel my horizons expanding, as I get along with more and more different sorts of people and see the common humanity underlying all the differences. One woman at work yesterday told me that when she first met me there, she wondered how in the world she was going to get along with me, because I was so quiet. Well, I'd wondered the same about her, because she is so boisterous!  Now we both see that there is no sinister cause behind our differences in style, and we can not only accept each other, but also enjoy each other's company.... I would add - on a limited basis... lol  :D

The one who bugs me there is alot like my mother in her terse mannerisms and smug expressions, but I was able to get beyond that, at first... in fact, I had mostly come to peace within myself about her, when I caught her in a lie and recognized that I had been so eager to accept and be accepted that I had let myself turn a somewhat deaf ear to her capacity for gossip and backbiting. So... again, all things in moderation and in good balance!

Love,
Carolyn

Lupita

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Re: Or you just cannot stand certain people?
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2008, 12:50:24 PM »
Did you see Leas thread of annoyance? Axa posted about people who wait, IMO they are opportunistic, and work to their convenience.

It is so bad for me. Nasty co-workers. Those are regular co-workers, they go against anybody that they are told to, not own character, not own judgement to deffedn the inoscent.

It is so triggering.

I am glad that you worked it out with your co-worker.

I have not been able to do that in 3D. ONly here on the board. I will try to do it ouside.

I am going of to the gym in an hour. Will see if I can reach out for someone and give a smile, a compliment and a nice trivial conversation, with out looking for acceptance, with out looking for love, with out looking for a mother.

Hope to talk to you later. It has been a very productive morning here tolking to you, thank you CH.

Certain Hope

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Re: Or you just cannot stand certain people?
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2008, 12:58:02 PM »
Thank you, too, Lupita... I've appreciated our talk and will take another look at the annoyance thread Leah began, as well as another one I haven't yet read, along similar lines.  Off to do grocery shopping in a bit, but hope to be back later.
Hope you enjoy your time at the gym and find someone fun with whom to visit!

Love,
Carolyn

Lupita

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Re: Or you just cannot stand certain people?
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2008, 04:37:19 PM »
Axa, please forgive me that I did not see your comment before. Thank you for you r response.


OK, this is what I would like to do. To find somebody to be able to pose as a person just like my mother and allow me to fight with him/her.


Behavioral and Cognitive Approaches In Anxiety Management
    Uploaded by drinksbeer (234) on Jan 6, 2005 

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Behavioral And Cognitive Approaches In The Management Of Anxiety

Compare and Contrast Behavioural and Cognitive Approaches in the Management of Anxiety

The Behavioural Model sees the cause of abnormality as the learning of maladaptive habits. It aims to discover, by laboratory experiment, what aspect of the environment produced this learning, and it sees successful therapy as learning new and more adaptive ways of behaving. There are two kinds of basic learning processes that exist: Operant and Pavlovian conditioning. These have generated a set of behavioural therapies.

Pavlovian or Classical therapies begin with the assumption that emotional habits have been acquired by the contingency between a conditioned stimulus and an unconditional stimulus. The formerly neutral conditioned stimulus now produces a conditioned response, which is the acquired emotion. Two Pavlovian therapies, Systematic Desensitisation and Flooding, extinguish some maladaptive emotional habits quite successfully.

Systematic Desensitisation is a behaviour therapy primarily used to treat phobias and specific anxieties. The phobic is first given training in deep muscle relaxation and is progressively exposed to increasing anxiety-evoking situations (real or imagined). Because relaxation and fear are mutually exclusive, stimuli that formerly induced panic are now greeted calmly. A classic demonstration of this therapy was carried out by Jones (1924). She successfully treated a young boy's fear of rabbits by having him eating in the presence of a rabbit, while gradually bringing the rabbit closer to him over a number of occasions. The encourage of a pleasant response such as eating is incompatible with fear.

In Flooding the phobic is exposed to situations or objects most feared for an extended length of time without an opportunity to escape. In one study, agoraphobics went through several sessions in which they had to go out into the street and walk alone until they could no longer manage. A few such sessions led to a marked improvement as judged by both client and therapist (Emmelkamp and Wessels ,1975). In flooding, the treatment is carried out in vivo, that is, in real life. But, real-life exposure to threatening stimuli is often impossible or impractical. It's not all that easy to bring snakes and dogs into a therapist's office to do flooding therapy. Under the circumstances, the next best thing is in vitro, in a simulation, and refers to the use of imagery. One example is implosion therapy, and the patient must imagine the most terrifying situation he could possibly conceive.

Another behaviour therapy technique, Aversion therapy, tries to attach negative feelings to stimulus situations that are initially very attractive so that the patient will no longer want to approach them. The object of this endeavour is to eliminate behaviour patterns that both patient and therapist regard as undesirable. Examples are overeating, or excessive drinking.

Operant conditioning is based on three concepts: Reinforcer, operant and discriminative stimulus. Operant therapies are based on the assumption that people acquire voluntary habits by positive reinforcement and punishment. Operant therapies provide new and more adaptive repertoires of voluntary responses. Among such therapies are Selective Positive Reinforcement, Selective Punishment and Extinction. In Selective Positive Reinforcement the therapist delivers positive reinforcement contingent on the occurrence of one particular behaviour. In Selective Punishment, the therapist negatively reinforces a certain target event, causing it to decrease in probability. Extinction occurs when there is a negative contingency between the conditioned stimulus and the unconditioned stimulus. These three techniques have all been applied with success to such disorders as Anorexia Nervosa, a disorder in which the individual has an intense fear of becoming fat, eats too little to sustain herself, and has a distorted body image.

Avoidance Learning, the act of getting out of a situation that has been previously associated with an aversive event, there by preventing the aversive event, combines operant and Pavlovian theory, and helps us in the treatment of obsessive-compulsive disorders.
Cognitive school is an outgrowth and reaction to the behavioural school. In contrast to the behaviourists, the cognitive school holds that mental events are not epiphenomena, rather they cause behaviour. More particularly, disordered cognitions will alleviate and sometimes cure psychopathology. Cognitive therapy is carried out by attempting to change different sorts of mental events, which can be divided into short-term mental events and long-term mental events. Some short-term mental events consist of expectations, including outcome (a person's estimate that a given behaviour will lead to the desired outcome) and efficacy expectations (a person's belief that he can successfully execute the behaviour that will produce a desires outcome). Other short-term mental events are appraisals, or mental evaluations of our experience, and attributions, the designations of causes concerning our experience. Long-term mental events include beliefs, some of which are irrational and illogical.

The main components to cognitive therapy are education, identification of negative automatic thoughts and challenging dysfunctional schemata. In education, the individual may have little information about anxiety, or may have mistaken information such as a belief that a panic attack is the same as a heart attack. A key step in cognitive therapy is helping the individual to identify the negative automatic thoughts that are intimately connected with feelings of depression and anxiety. These may be identified in the clinical sessions themselves, for example, by asking the individual to role-play a difficult encounter, or they can be identified in homework by asking the individual to keep a diary of such thoughts in the situations in which they arise. Once identified, the individual is then encouraged to test their validity, to question them, and to check for the evidence for and against. The identification and challenging of negative thoughts leads into the final phase of cognitive therapy which is challenging the dysfunctional schemata that underlie the negative thoughts.

Many therapists practice both cognitive and behavioural therapy and are called cognitive-behavioural therapists. Multi-model therapy is an example of the use of cognitive and behavioural techniques along with techniques from the other models.

Thus, behavioural therapy is concerned with unwanted, overt behaviour rather than hypothetical underlying causes. Techniques used are derived from classical and instrumental conditioning. Cognitive therapies are for internal anxieties. The therapy is concrete and of a directive orientation , but there is no emphasis on conditioning. It tries to change the way the patient thinks about his/her situation. Other types include various attempts to advance the patients social education, using techniques such as graded task assignments, modelling and role-playing.

However, phobias and obsessive-compulsive disorders are dominated by the behavioural approach and anxiety by the cognitive approach.

REFERENCES

Comer,R (1992) Abnormal Psychology. U.S.A.:W.H.Freeman and Company.

Emmelkamp & Wessels (1975) "Flooding in imagination vs. flooding in vivo: A comparison with agoraphobics". Behaviour research and therapy (13) 7-15.

 
 

Leah

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Re: Or you just cannot stand certain people?
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2008, 04:50:52 PM »

OK, this is what I would like to do. To find somebody to be able to pose as a person just like my mother and allow me to fight with him/her

 :(  Sorry Lupita,

As much as I love volunteering, stand in the back row on this one!

Hey, seriously, you could sign on one of those forums where they fight out the words with one another -- keyboards at dawn!!

All the best with your quest, Lup

I feel a need for some of that peace you mentioned on your other thread  :)

Love, Leah
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

Lupita

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Re: Or you just cannot stand certain people?
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2008, 05:06:21 PM »
LOL Lea, I understand, I did not think I would get it here. I guess I have to save mone and pay for a therapist.

Lupita

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Re: Or you just cannot stand certain people?
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2008, 05:18:33 PM »
Or Implosion therapy in which the therapist has the client imagine the worst possible situation.


Let us see, my students gettin in my face, my boss saying I does not want me to work there, my coworkers saying ugly things to me, my son calling GFM "mother.....YIKES!!!!!!...... that is the worst.  Or my son against me, wow, my son alienated by those two women against me. OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!