Author Topic: Is it wrong to be a victim?  (Read 4919 times)

Lupita

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Is it wrong to be a victim?
« on: February 20, 2008, 05:33:00 PM »
Well, just wanted to know if anybody relates to this article, I did a little. Love you all.
Lupita

The Victim's TOOLBOX: You Don't Have To Figure This Out Alone!  IS IT WRONG TO BE A VICTIM?   

Dr. Frank Ochberg, Harvard trained MD and trauma expert, says our culture now disparages, blames, isolates, and condemns someone for being a victim.

Victim, survivor, victimology, victim abuse...why are victims being told to deny their reality? Sometimes, being sad is normal. It doesn't mean you stay there, but don't feel guilty for it.







Reality and Revictimization...Why not everyone can just "move on" and "choose a happy future"



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 The concept that a victim can always consciously choose how to proceed, is wrong. Abuse is trauma and the ability to take steps forward is often impaired. Sometimes, help is needed.
The phrase, "move on with your life" is common. Sometimes said to those who have lost a custody battle, lost a home, or savings, a family or job this phrase can be another betrayal. Just when a victim needs support, they are asked to go it alone.

The entire infrastructure of a life is often destroyed leaving the victim, stunned, hypervigilant, indigent, betrayed and perplexed as to why they are expected to "choose" to not be a victim. Give them a time machine and this can be done. Give them revictimization  and it cannot. 

It's time to give that word back its status and in doing so, give respect to the abused. Respect comes in the form of providing help with a compassionate approach to those who have been stripped of dignity through abuse in courts of law, or by their partners.


What is the definition of a "victim"?

According to the dictionary a victim is: One who is harmed by, or made to suffer from an act, circumstance, agency, or condition; a person who is tricked, swindled, or taken advantage of.

The victim of a narcissist is traumatized. There are biochemical changes in the body and structural changes in the brain. Thought patterns change, memories are lost, immune system strongly affected, brain cells die, there is chest pain, muscle pain, feelings are intense and emotions chaotic. 

<>Why are victims revictimized?

Because it's politically correct to say, "I'm not a victim, I'm a survivor."

Not all victims are the same.


 Some have more resiliency than others. Some are without resources or support. Many have physiological changes that need to be addressed. And when those who need help come looking for it, instead of being welcomed, they find "helpers" that tell them they are responsible for their healing NOW. These people are revictimizing because "choice" is NOT always an option.

Reclaim the Word Victim


We must reclaim the word "victim" and renew our commitment to those who are victims. We should examine the role of a victim impact statement and victim advocate for those who are traumatized emotionally as well as from a criminal act.

Are you being victimized again by someone who says, "if you won't stop being a victim. I won't help you"? Maybe your attorney, therapist. siblings, or friends are claiming you can just choose to stop being a victim. Maybe they think you can start a company without money, and buy a house with bad credit. Maybe they don't know what they are talking about.

As a victim of any kind of abuse you deserve:
1. Compassion
2. Validation
3  Freedom from theraputic verbal abuse
4. A support team to open doors to resources
5. A friend, therapist or counselor who can teach you the skills to rebuild your life.

Depending on who you are, this may take a long time or not. Variables include amount and length of abuse, health, supportive family or not, finances, genetic explanatory style (optimism or pessimism), coping skills you may already have and many others. As a victim, you have the right to say, "STOP" to those who blame the victim. An entire self help industry has arisen that believes if you just really really wanted to, you can be happy and healthy and fully functional as soon as you choose to be. A starting point for recovery are post traumatic stress sites. There you will find trained and compassionate support people with articles that explain trauma healing methods.

The Scientific Basis of Healing, Happiness and Recovery

It doesn't matter if you call yourself a victim, survivor or Martian. No one should deny you victim status. It is what is. A victim is not a slothlike creature, nor stupid. Nor is a victim responsible for what happened to her and we must stop worrying about language and start helping. A victim is a person with a life in chaos. What matters is that you get the help you need and the compassionate trained person to give you the skills.

The good news is that happiness is trainable, resiliency comes back and psychologists are moving from the Freudian model which has dominated psychology for too long and was wrong to boot, to a model that moves from pathology as the dominant scheme. The process of de-traumatization begins with validation. It then moves to retraining explanatory style. Depending on the depth and time of the abuse, it may take a long or short time to process to empowerment and control. IT IS NOT NECESSARY to analyze every event. It IS necessary to be heard and listened to and to tell your story. But not over and over to everyone who will listen. Validation is critical.

How to use trauma information and positive psychology.......see YOUAREINCONTROL.INFO

Gabben

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Re: Is it wrong to be a victim?
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2008, 05:48:32 PM »
Lupita,

Thank you for this. It could not have come at a better time as I was feeling ashamed for be an LV.

The victim of a narcissist is traumatized. There are biochemical changes in the body and structural changes in the brain. Thought patterns change, memories are lost, immune system strongly affected, brain cells die, there is chest pain, muscle pain, feelings are intense and emotions chaotic. 

It was good to see the word intense used. How many people have been told, while processing the N pain, that they are intense?

It is like having someone stick a knife in the wound. That was the very reason that we were wounded, because we were too intense for our N parents.


As a victim of any kind of abuse you deserve:
1. Compassion
2. Validation
3  Freedom from theraputic verbal abuse
4. A support team to open doors to resources
5. A friend, therapist or counselor who can teach you the skills to rebuild your life.







DailyMail

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Re: Is it wrong to be a victim?
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2008, 05:52:22 PM »
I think there is a big difference between having "victim' as your identity, and feeling victimized by a situation or person but your identity is something (s) else.

If you've been victimized, then you're a victim of something.

I have to admit, I am a newcomer but a little confused about this weboard.  For two reasons.  Is this solely a Christian/newborn Christian support group?  I find the majority of the discussions have to do with being a good Christian, turning the other cheek, penance, forgiveness, prayer etc (not that there is anything wrong with that).

The other is that being upset, feeling pain, grieving, being angry, or righteously indignant at the injustices or injuries inflicted on us by narcissists seems somehow wrong, that instead we're supposed to find fault/culpability within ourselves? so we can grow?

Thats counter-intuitive to just about everything I've ever felt was right in my life.  If someone treats me wrongly, injures me, abuses me THEY are the one at fault, and I get to scream in pain, I get to whimper through my healing, I get to charge them with a crime, I get to tell my friends and family and whomever will listen that I'm angry and I wont take it anymore.

Have I misunderstood what the prevailing wisdom is here on thie weboard?  Is there a website that goes with this board that I can read about that wont make the philosophy here seem quite so foreign?

I have been victimized by a narcissist, despite not having ever felt like a victim in my life before him.  It seems odd to me to look at that situation, knowing what I know about narcissists and how they think that allows them to be Ok with abusing people, and be told its not OK to be angry or express anger or point fingers.

???

(confused)

Gabben

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Re: Is it wrong to be a victim?
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2008, 06:08:33 PM »
I have been victimized by a narcissist, despite not having ever felt like a victim in my life before him.  It seems odd to me to look at that situation, knowing what I know about narcissists and how they think that allows them to be OK with abusing people, and be told its not OK to be angry or express anger or point fingers.

???

(confused)


Hi DailyMail,

I can understand your confusion.  I speak only for myself, not the board. I'm Christian but many others here are not. I'm outspoken about my faith because I am tired of being voiceless and my faith is important to me.

Yes, I have been through the full range of hurting anger emotions that come along with being a victim of a narcissist parent. Part of what helps me to heal is my Christian faith.

It hurts, we need to tell the story of what they did to us over and over to help us get over the hurt.

YES, we were victims.

However, in trying to understand patterns; why I was unconsciously drawn to a N was because I had a lot of unfinished or unhealed wounds from the past that the present N was triggering.

Now I am at a stage in my healing where I am trying to integrate the past and the present as well as take responsibility for my actions and get out of victimland.

It is not that I am a victim, it is that I was a victim and I will be a victim as long as I CHOOSE to be a victim.

Getting out of victimhood is HARD. It takes work, honesty------------------perseverance.

DailyMail -- whatever stage you are in your healing process is OK and does not have to match what is going on with the board or the general theme that seems to prevail  here from one day to the next.

axa

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Re: Is it wrong to be a victim?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2008, 06:14:22 PM »
Hi Daily Mail,

Welcome.  I think your question is very complex and will only speak for myself.  I think having been brought up by N parents that being a victim has been part of my identity.  A year ago I dumped the N in my life and have chosen to not be a victim any longer.  Other people here have different experiences.  Some have N parents, others N relationships......

There are a number of Christians on the board but it is not soley a Christian/newborn Christian support group. I am not one.   I think anyone who has been unlucky enough to have an N in their lives deserves to scream, shout, rage at the injustices they have suffered.  I have done all of these and more.  For me, coming from an N family I KNOW that my boundaries have not been strong enough and I stayed in an abusive situation long after "healthier" people would have.  This is the reason I have been trying to work through my own stuff to ensure that I do not end up in the same mess again.  Again, this is not the case for everyone.  I am not trying to find fault with myself but I do know that I wasted a lot of time trying to make sense out of madness and need to understand what made me stay long after the sell by date.  Hope this makes some sense to you.

Please feel free to express your feelings.  Abuse is not OK, Narcissists are dangerous and damaging people who prey on others.  

axa
 


DailyMail

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Re: Is it wrong to be a victim?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2008, 12:11:48 AM »
thank you

teartracks

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Re: Is it wrong to be a victim?
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2008, 01:16:04 AM »


Hi Lupita,

No, IMO, it is not wrong to be a victim.  I don't disagree with the article you pasted in your opening post.  Your #2 post is on target from my experience and perspective. 

I hope newcomers to the board and even the oldtimers who may have been shamed for speaking from that horrible place where the scales fall off the eyes and you say, Oh my god.  I have been/am a victim, will read the information you supplied.

Dailymail,

I think there is a big difference between having "victim' as your identity, and feeling victimized by a situation or person but your identity is something (s) else.

If you've been victimized, then you're a victim of something.


I think this is a sound observation.

I am Christian.  I speak from that perspective sometimes.  But don't worry, no one can bestow it on you in passing.  It's totally elective.  And besides it ebbs and flows as do other themes on the board. 

Here's to a good firm handshake of welcome... :D

tt

 
« Last Edit: February 21, 2008, 02:16:20 AM by teartracks »

DailyMail

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Re: Is it wrong to be a victim?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2008, 08:08:21 AM »
I don't know what it's like being the child of a narcissist.  I've only been the spouse of one, and that was debilitating enough.  It seems to require a large parcel of time in order to feel and sort through all of the feelings and doubt that tangled me up.  I also noticed in myself, a lot of anger that even if it was below the surface would come out if anyone, including my best friend, who said "enough already, snap out of it".  I noticed I need tenderness and patience from the people around me.

If I was the child of a Narcissist who had to endure the kind of process of undoing of my mind over an entire childhood, when I wouldn't have any other frame of reference, if I hadn't ever experienced what a healthy family or childhood, or MYSELF was like, I can't help but think that parcel of time to sort through everything that tangled me up would be VERY large, and would require even MORE tenderness and patience and tolerance of everyone I gathered around me?

I get upset thinking about anyone who might hint at there being something not quite "right" or "healthy" about thinking of yourselves as victims, or that your need to express anger, sadness or fear about it might be UNhealthy.  The length of time we need in order to work out all of that righteous indignation would be different for all of us.  The point at which we fall back on our butt, breathless, exhausted and ready for leaving behind the indignation and picking up something different, something new will come for all of us on our own schedule.

I dont know how you children of narcissists do it, but it boggles my mind, and seems somehow miraculous that you do make progress.

You're miracle babies --> retroactively!

DailyMail

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Re: Is it wrong to be a victim?
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2008, 10:44:16 AM »
Thank you Phoenix.

I'd like to just quickly state as an aside, I am an agnostic, or what may be more accurate, a global spiritualist.

I don't have any negative associations with Christians or their beliefs, even as I read them here.  There is plenty of room in my world for all of our different perspectives and beliefs as long as we're mutually respectful of them.  I just didn't want to come here as a non-Christian if this was a Christian-only group.  Thank you everyone for your clarifications and welcomes.

Back to our regularly-scheduled program.

Sela

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Re: Is it wrong to be a victim?
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2008, 11:34:02 AM »
Dear Lupita,

Thankyou for this post.  I think it very much needed saying.

I have, for a long time, been telling myself that is it normal and healthy to feel like a victim.  I'd be worried if I just endured abuse didn't feel victimized.

For me, it's a stage.  Yes, I'm a victim.  Yes, I've been traumatized.  Yes, it's ok to know that, believe it, feel it, experience it.

For me, it's been part of a process (and thankfully, I feel less and less like a "victim" these days) that takes a certain amount of time (which differs individually).  To discredit or not allow that time......

just seemed a disservice to myself (and your post will help others, I bet too, to acknowledge the reality of victim-ness).  So thanks again!

Hi DM!

Welcome from me too!

Quote
There is plenty of room in my world for all of our different perspectives and beliefs as long as we're mutually respectful of them.

I think I love you!!  :D :D

Sela

teartracks

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Re: Is it wrong to be a victim?
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2008, 02:32:50 PM »


Hi everyone,

Gretings and goodwill today.

Yes, DailyMail, being conditioned from the cradle by N abusers certainly spins the brain/psyche differently.  I can only speak from that perspective.  I have often wondered what it's like to have come from a healthy childhood (emotionally) then enter into an adult  relationship with an N abuser.  Using my experience (abused child) as a guide, it would seem that walking away from that adult relationship, dusting off your feet so to speak would be fairly easy and much less damaging.  I've learned from reading here though that it's not necessarily that way.  It feels to me as if the residual collateral damage would be different, but I can't figure out what that difference would look like.  I look forward to hearing your story.  Thank you for your tolerance concerning religion/spirituality.   What is a global spiritualist?

tt


DailyMail

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Re: Is it wrong to be a victim?
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2008, 03:12:31 PM »
Teartracks,

I'd like to come back to the topic of "colateral damage" in a bit.

Just quickly right now, global spiritualist, as it plays out for me, is that I accept God spirit comes to humanity in every culture, in every time period.  I think for most (not all, I have respect for atheists too) there is some kind of spiritual need for a sense of order and meaning in this world, in this universe...in this one life we lead.  I respect each religion has something valuable in it for the people who place faith in it.

I find certain somethings beautifully comforting in Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, prayer, retreats, meditation, creation myths.

When I'm particularly feeling in danger I find sanctuary in my city's cathedral, I had a Catholic marriage ceremony and baptism of my son, but I'm not Catholic.

I suppose, succinctly, I let God pour into my life from all of the streams and tributaries this globe sends its God spirit.

I love...and take in love.


Leah

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Re: Is it wrong to be a victim?
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2008, 08:27:16 PM »

Thank you, Lupita

for such an insightful article.

I so agree with the following:


As a victim of any kind of abuse you deserve:

1. Compassion
2. Validation
3  Freedom from theraputic verbal abuse
4. A support team to open doors to resources
5. A friend, therapist or counselor who can teach you the skills to rebuild your life.

Depending on who you are, this may take a long time or not. Variables include amount and length of abuse, health, supportive family or not, finances, genetic explanatory style (optimism or pessimism), coping skills you may already have and many others. As a victim, you have the right to say, "STOP" to those who blame the victim. An entire self help industry has arisen that believes if you just really really wanted to, you can be happy and healthy and fully functional as soon as you choose to be. 



Warm Thoughts and Good Wishes for you,

Love, Leah
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

teartracks

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Re: Is it wrong to be a victim?
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2008, 11:26:10 PM »





Hi DailyMail,

I'd like to come back to the topic of "colateral damage" in a bit.

Just quickly right now, global spiritualist, as it plays out for me, is that I accept God spirit comes to humanity in every culture, in every time period.  I think for most (not all, I have respect for atheists too) there is some kind of spiritual need for a sense of order and meaning in this world, in this universe...in this one life we lead.  I respect each religion has something valuable in it for the people who place faith in it.

I find certain somethings beautifully comforting in Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, prayer, retreats, meditation, creation myths.

When I'm particularly feeling in danger I find sanctuary in my city's cathedral, I had a Catholic marriage ceremony and baptism of my son, but I'm not Catholic.

I suppose, succinctly, I let God pour into my life from all of the streams and tributaries this globe sends its God spirit.

I love...and take in love.


Thanks for the explanation.   Are you kind of a lone ranger, global (galapagos) spiritualist?

tt



tt


DailyMail

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Re: Is it wrong to be a victim?
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2008, 11:29:41 PM »
I fear I have become a Lone Ranger. 

But then Tonto and Silver were islands too weren't they?

Hi TT :)
If you were a famous character from a children's book or cartoon, who would you be?