"Forced" Into Lying

[Violet]

Something happened the day before yesterday that sent me into a tailspin of sorts.
My Nmom (elderly and lives several states removed from me) called.  We talk on the phone about every 2 or 3 weeks; she lives in a senior apartment complex.  After general chit chat, I practiced my usual technique of holding the phone away from me and returning it to my ear intermittently, with grunts of acknowledgement, etc., when she turned the topic to something I knew would be triggering to me.  This is one of my sanity saving devices, so I don't have to hear things that will make me crazy for days.

Anyway, as often happens, she giggled and cooed that she was "up to" 97 pounds!  Instead of being honest and expressing my fear that this is not enough weight for her 5' 7" frame, and instead of honestly telling her that I believe she may be anorexic, I just did what I usually do, and congratulated her on her 3 pound weight gain! 

After getting off the phone and analyzing what I had just done, I realized I have been tricked by her (manipulated) into giving Nsupply with this whole "I am just so frail and thin and helpless" routine, which started when she began to live on SlimFast and went from about 160 to about 90 pounds, over the last 5 years.  She has everyone in her apartment complex AND her children "worried" about her weight.  I cannot change this but I can change her talking about it to me; I must have this STOP.  Since I weigh at least 100 more pounds than she and I have struggled with ED my whole life and she has used my overweight as a way to denigrate and punish me (same as she treated her only sibling, a sister, whom she treated incredibly hatefully) and since I am constantly struggling to follow a healthful eating plan one day at a time and eat properly and lose weight, this whole conversation was very triggering.  I lost my focus and fell into a binge, with the ensuing emotional blackness.  I am just so freaking discouraged at my self destructive eating behaviors, because they are just symptomatic of my own lifelong self hatred, learned at Nmom's knee....  Can anyone of you relate to any of this?

Anyway, this is what I want to do; please anyone, comment if you wish or will:

Next time I talk to her, I will say, "Mom, I need you to do something for me.  I need you to NOT talk about how much you weigh unless or until you reach 120 pounds, which I believe is a healthy weight for you. Telling you I am proud of you when you are 97 pounds is actually telling a lie, I am not proud of you, I am worried about you.  What you eat and how much you weigh is your personal choice and personal responsibilty.  I have a responsibility to myself to NOT LIE, so please do not expect or encourage me to do so.  I also feel you are getting lots of attention by being underweight and that is not healthy, but is your choice.  If you tell me your weight again, I will be honest with you and tell you what I really think, from now on.  I think you actually need counseling for elderly anorexia.  I will also immediately cut our conversation short.  I do not want to be put in the position of lying to you anymore....  Please agree NOT to tell me what you weigh anymore."

So what do you guys think?  I do not want to tell her I am struggling with my weight, as she wants me to struggle and to fail, I need to keep her "voice" out of my personal struggle.  Her being thin is one way she can demonstrate what a failure I am, she could never admit that we are both on the same spectrum of self-hatred but at opposite ends.  I need her to NOT talk about her weight anymore....

Thoughts or feedback?
Violet 

[Ami]

Oh Violet,
  I can see your "enmeshment " with your M so much easier than I can see my own(lol). I hope that I can talk to you honestly.
  You are living your life( as *I* am) playing off your M., too much, giving her too much power over who you are. IOW, your M says jump, and you say,"How high?"emotionally(IMO)
  Your M wants you to play her game  and you want her to approve of you( maybe you don't  even realize it).
 Your weight issues are probably .somehow, related to your M,who is in your head now, directing traffic.
 I think that what you are going to say to her is good. However, the larger issue is how much she is in your head.
  Compost what does not fit, Violet.                              Love to you,  Ami
 

[ann3]

Violet,

I completely agree that your mom's remarks to you is her way of manipulating you and controlling you.  It's as if she's poking you with a pin to get you to react.  Your reaction is her N supply.

IMO, if you say this to her, you are giving her N supply and she will continue to play the "poor little me" game.  Also, I think you know that she will not change.  So how about doing a "medium chill"?  Don't react to her, don't give her N supply.  It's up to her whether she will rationally deal with her own weight issues and probably nothing you do will alter her weight situation.

You're reacting to your own detriment.  Please put yourself first.  Don't punish yourself because she's acting foolish.  Take a deep breath, exhale and give it to God.

So now, I'll revise my answer:  how about cutting your response to one sentence "Mom, I do not want to discuss your weight".  period.  If she asks why, say that it's unhealthy what she's doing and she knows how you feel and it's up to her how she wants to handle her weight.  If she persists, repeat:   "Mom, I do not want to discuss your weight".  If she keeps persisting, tell her you have to go and hang up.  I'm just trying to think what is the best way for you to disengage from her game playing and show her that you will not play the game anymore.

HTH

[flowerpower]

Hi Violet,

I am sorry you are getting triggered by your mother and for all the history with her focus on weight and the shaming of you and your Aunt.

My 2 cents is that I would not engage her on the subject at all. She is using her weight as a way to get supply. Any discussion at all will feed her. I would totally ignore the subject and not engage. If she pushes it and asks directly for a response, I would say something like "Your weight is up to you" in a detached tone and change the subject.

For example, I have found that my mother enjoys any emotional response and seems to get fed even more by a differing opinion. She enjoys a negative reaction most. She will often say something about buying something new that she totally can't afford like an expensive kitchen remodel or a new expensive car. She wants to get a negative reaction. One of her delusions is that everyone is after her money. So to reinforce this, she will ask specifically for advice on something that makes really bad financial sense for her. She sets me up by acting helpless and asking (even begging) for advice. I have fallen for this more times than I care to count. If I react by giving her honest advice then she will react as if I am trying to take her money. She tells everyone that my sister, my aunt, her banker, *insert passing fancy of the day* is after her money and is plotting to get it. She doesn't have a lot of money. She is comfortable but no more. She is starting to spread similar rumors about my husband and myself. My brother told me recently that she said to him that my husband and I are puting pressure on her for money, etc. This is total delusion or purposeful lying for attention on her part.

Anyway, my point is that in my situation at least not responding in any way to subjects that give N supply is best. I hope you find the right method to handle your situation. Good luck! 

[nickyinstant]

I agree with

"My 2 cents is that I would not engage her on the subject at all. She is using her weight as a way to get supply. Any discussion at all will feed her. I would totally ignore the subject and not engage"

telling her how you feel is feeding her.  That is my N experience (with my H) they cannot hear you, and will never have a lighbulb moment.

i have spent so much time and effort making speeches and statement which sum it all up.  It means notheing to them. Nothing. Nada.  Not engaging is the best statement you will make.  But you still wont win.

xx

[teartracks]

Hi Violet,

I agree with what the others have said. 

I have been in exactly your same situation where she 'didn't want to get fat'.   I said something along the lines of, "OK, it's your choice, but you are putting yourself at risk."

If you can, imagine hitting your neutral button when she calls.  It is similar to the 'medium chill'.  You just detach/distance yourself from the emotions that kick up when talking to her.

One response could be, And how does that make you feel?  Or, how is that working for you?  That way you won't be telling her how you feel, but she gets to tell herself how she's feeling as you hold the phone away from your ear.

Whatever you do, don't get into a power struggle with her.  That is like serving up a hot fudge sundae with a cherry on top for an N. 

At my brother's suggestion, my mantra became, "let her do whatever she wants to do."  I was spending all my time trying to stand my mother and death.  It was killing me. 

Here's hoping the next phone call will be different from the others and that when you hang up, you won't feel pulled down.

Understanding...

tt

[Gaining Strength]

Violet, I agree with the others about not engaging her in a discussion about her weight.  My initial thought was that you should tell her that you won't discuss her weight and that if she insists that you will hang up - and then you should follow through.  Then a devilsih idea popped into my mind - next time she brags that she is "up" to 97 pounds, tell her that you are worried about her weight and concerned that she is gaining too much and tell her that you think that 94 is a much better weight for her height.

Can you imagine how her jaw with drop in astonishment at this reaction?  You could actually look forward to such a conversation.

When I first read your post I thought about my mother and how she and I had a similar emotional engagement.  When I was in college I gained a significant amount of weight my first year and could not lose it.  I was fairly heavy and wore a size 12.  My mother on the other hand was quit heavy and wore a size 16.  Whenever I came home she would start by making comments about how appalling my weight was and she would smirk and sneer under her breath whenever I got dressed or whenever I ate a meal or something between meals.  As a result, I began eating only when noone was looking.  I still do that even though I no longer struggle with weight.  I eat after my little boy goes to sleep or I have a snack when he is no where to "catch" me.  I eat meals in front of him but not snacks.  He doesn't care but it is a long ago entrenched habit born from painful, painful belttling comments about my weight from a woman who was much, much fatter than I. 

The other thing in your initial post that struck me incommon with my mother is that I knew as a child that my mother was treating me much the way she treated (and still treats) her sisters.  She is mean, mean and the only person I have ever known who has seen this in her is her sitter who has been with her since last summer after 7 years with her late sister.   It has been a God-send to have this lovely woman who has seen my mother's appalling behavior and astonishing meanness and pathlogical lieing.

I join with the other posters and encouraging you to find a way to cut the ties that bind with your mother's cruel voice that you have internalized.  And, by the way, no matter how much of a binge you went on, it is just "a mistake".  Don't dwell on it or berate yourself for that mistake, just pick up where you left off and continue on in your healthy eating pattern.

[Violet]

Thank you all for your thought-provoking replies.  Since this is an important issue to me, I am going to research a bit, and think about it in depth, before deciding what to do.  I really hate the thought of being deceitful about it....   When in doubt, do nothing....  heh heh
:/   Thanks again....
Violet

[Ami]

Dear Violet,
 I think that this could be a pivotal tme for you in changing the dynamics of your relationship with your M,in general.
 I am looking forward to hearing what you do.    Love   Ami