Shame

[Ami]

Dear Ann,
  This is SUCH an important topic, crucial ,really. I will write more later,when I get home.      Love  Ami

[ann3]

I'm just boogying along with this:

I think that these 4 elements are inter-related and as we increase/decrease one of these elements, the remaining elements either increase or decrease accordingly:

1. validating ourselves  (not seeking validation from other people, whether or not they are abusers)
2. shame
3. self esteem
4. self love

Decrease self validation and then, shame increases, while self esteem & self love decreases.

Increase self validation and then, shame decreases, while self esteem & self love increases.

[nickyinstant]

""think the N parent HAD to destroy our integrity  b/c our integrity  gave us a power, a center, which,if it was strong enough ,could SEE them. They did not want us to have ANY power to see the truth, which is that they were small and cowardly, like the Wizard of Oz.""

Something in this statement has gotten to me.  I cant place my mother at all, and I am so upset with her, and really cant bear her at all, but she's my mum and she's suffering and shes old and she cant change.  

 i married and N, left him after 15 yeasr in sept 2005- not knowing until some time later what he was.  I  fell in love with a covert N 9 months later only to be trashed by them both, and have been in so much despair with my kids still being used against me now, never ending propaganda and muddy waters in divorce and issues with my kids.

In amongst all this, my father has alzheimers, and having provided for my mother and his children his whole life (a more beautiful, calm and gentle man you couldnot meet). my biggest reality check came first, when my brother told me that my mother was saying to my dad " if you dont stop behaving like this i will leave you" ......my second reality check came when, at one of my lowest points, my mum says to me " if i had my life over again, I would do what you have done.   I would marry him, have my kids and leave him before he gets old and decrepit"

OMG.  is my mother, like my H and my D a monster!  I cant get my head round things. I drink to escape my reality.

Sorry to poke in on anotherwise positive  thread.  The wizard of oz thing just got to me.  my mums done nothing bar be a mum, and i am questioning how well she did that, without questioning it at all.  Am too scared of the truth.  she is so critical, yet so sensitive, cries if you dare to say a word out of line to her.  

i keep thinking i am getting somewhere, and then i realise that i am probably not.

like I say, get badk to positive vein of the thread, am just nosing about, and not sure where i am at at all, may poke in here and there, and apologise if its inappropriate.  I just need to rant sometimes
xx

[dandylife]

Ami & Ann3,

I just wanted to say, too, that I think it is a human desire to feel accepted and validated by others. The more you can self-validate, in my opinion, the better off (mentally healthy) you will be. I know there are others out there who feel differently, but it makes sense to me. I got lucky and I have developed and strengthened that ability for myself over the years, I rarely ask anybody for advice or opinions, and I have a sense of "feeling" if I'm on the right track or not myself.

However, I think it's a healthy desire to want validation. It becomes unhealthy when you seek it from someone who is incapable of giving it. Once you develop trust with someone, that's when you should begin to seek validation from them. So, I just wanted to clarify my position on that. There are plenty of times it's a warm and loving thing to seek validation - from a trustworthy individual!

nickyinstant,
You have several challenging situations going on. I can only suggest remembering to do alot of self-care through it all. You deserve to be taken care of like a queen - and if no one else is there or is willing to do it - you must step up for yourself - until you find someone loving and worthy.

I wish you strength and calm. (((nickyinstant)))

Dandylife

[Ami]

Dear Dandy,Violet, Ann, and Nicky,
  Thank you for all your responses. This thread really helped me.Every post had s/thing valuable to offer.
  Ann, I think your equations on shame, self validtion and self esteem are very simple, yet very profound.
 As I validate myself more, I have less shame, more self esteem ,and need LESS validation from the outside.
 I think you found the key,Ann, presented in some simple equations.
                                         Love   Ami