should I worry?

[pandora]

Hello,

I wanted to get some input on something that happened to me recently.  

I saw my STBXH this weekend at a public event.  He was hovering a bit and making me uncomfortable, so I finally told him (quite forcefully, I must admit) to leave me alone.  I did not insult him or use rude language, I just said "Leave me alone" with some force, and walked away from him.  

His response was to later track me down and unleash a very upsetting barrage of verbal harrassment - forcing me to state my reasons for divorcing him (which I did state quite clearly - infidelity and dishonesty) followed by a list of ways I had failed him as a wife - selfish, nonsupportive, bad communicator,  etc.   (One would wonder why he wants anything to do with me at all if I am such a disappontment!)

I got upset and told him to leave me alone and to get away from me several times.  He responded by yelling "f*** you", etc. and then storming off.  He later tried to approach me to apologize for cussing and to express his frustration that we could not be "friends".  I told him that I could not talk to him and to leave me alone, and then walked away.  This happened in front of at least fifty people.
 
He did send me a message attempting to apologize - but of course it is my fault for provoking him.  
 
One of the things that came out in his tirade was that he knows where I live.  He had to find it out eventually, but the way he said it made me nervous.  He seemed angry that I had not shared this info with him freely, and implied that I should be grateful that he hasn't disturbed me at home or at work, which to me sounds like a veiled threat - he is letting me know he could harrass me if he wanted to.  Am I mistaken to interpret it that way?
 
I am also concerned because this is the first time since I left him that he has been nasty to my face.  Previously he has been reasonably polite in person, and limited his tirades to email or the telephone.   He has sent me many letters intended to convince me that he has changed and that I am making a mistake by divorcing him and has tried to convince me to meet with him alone several times - I don't respond to these anymore and will not meet with him.   I try to keep our contact limited to practical matters.
 
I believe these tactics are probably just another way for him to try and jerk me around.  I don't want to be overly paranoid, but I am a little concerned for my safety.  He seems unstable and unpredictable.  But he has not been physically violent or threatened me in that way.  

I have told a few friends about this incident, just as a sort of precaution.

Is it likely that he becomes more angry and acting out in this way as it becomes clearer to him that I have no interest in reconciling or allowing him to have any further influence over my life?  

Thanks for your opinions and input.  I am actually doing much better and feeling quite optimistic about my future.   This continued crap is upsetting, but it no longer rules my life.  

Pandora

[Anonymous]

A book that I have found helpful is The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker.

[Anonymous]

I would take his behavior very seriously. The fact that you didn't want him to know your address speaks for itself. Please go to www.bpdresources.com where they have stalking links. Tell ALL your friends to be wary of him. A stalker will get information from your friends, who don't know he's stalking you! It may also be time for a restraining order.

bunny

[Lizbeth]

Your rightful request to him in public to leave you alone probably embarassed the hell out of him so he had to retaliate.  Nevertheless, I would be concerned and it is obvious he has the potential to become quite a nuisance of a stalker.  If you haven't already, please check out www.stalkingvictims.com.  Their message board is especally good, I read it daily as it has to do with the behavior of N's and P's (and I was stalked in the past by a boyfriend and my second ex-husband).  

You should document everything, tell everyone you know what is happening, and take precautions like they list on the Stalking Victims list.  Perhaps post there and get their advice on how to proceed.

Hope this helps.

Lizbeth

[Lizbeth]

In case you haven't done so already, you should be keeping a diary of all your encounters with him and copies of every single communication, in case you have to get an order of protection.  You can cut communcation down or completely out between the two of you having him contact your lawyer only for details.  I would even go so far as to talk to the police and tell them about the veiled threats, show them anything threatening he has sent you as well.  At least you can get it on record that way.  Be warned, even non-violent men can turn violent when they realize that they have, finally, lost control over their "object" or "property" or "supply" (you).  Once he realizes there is no hope at all for reconciliation, he may try to do something.

Please do check out stalking resources for your best information, each case is different, each N or P is different.

Good luck

Lizbeth

[Onyx]

Anger is never a pretty thing to see, let alone be on the receiving end of. The old saying about never knowing who you really lived with until it was all over springs to mind. He's frustrated and it's getting the better of him. It must be like having an argument with himself 24/7. Sometimes we men can try to rationalise and logic out things that just can't be.

Your marriaged ended and that's that! He'll accept it sooner or later as time goes by. The trick for you is to I think have no contact with him at all! The more you try to reason, the more he'll just blow up in your face. If he hasn't been violent to you in your marriage, then having no contact with him is unlikely to generate it. Be on you guard yes, but we all say things in the heat of the moment that we later regret!

Time and distance may mean that you at least can talk civil in the future, but it doesn't appear so now. Breaking off contact will I think, give you both the space to heal your wounds.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, Onyx, but I respectfully disagree.  When you are dealing with a N, all bets at expecting rational and respectful behavior are off.  You are not dealing with a normal man here.  You can have no contact (which is what you have to do with an N) and still end up with violence, because that is they way they react sometimes when they realize they have lost all control over you.  Sometimes no matter what you do, unless you totally disappear, you will provoke violence in them, even if they have never touched you before.  The  most dangerous time for a woman is when she leaves her spouse, or after the divorce has been finalized and they finally "get the picture."  Pandora is right to be worried.  This may blow over, but with his veiled threats and his behavior, I wouldn't bet on it.  

Lizbeth

[Lizbeth]

Sorry, that was me, Lizbeth. I logged in but it didn't take.

[pandora]

I do realize that my STBXH is dealing with his own feelings about our divorce, and I don't expect him not to be angry or act out at all.  I just don't think that I should be the target.  I have certainly vented about him in negative ways, but I would not call him up or approach him in public and subject him to that.   That does not help me or help him.  

I am trying to avoid all but the most necessary contact with him, but some is still needed since our divorce is not final.  He has sent me unwanted letters which I have ignored as much as possible.  Some of his more angry emails I have forwarded to my lawyer.  And I did tell her about this incident, although it really does not affect the divorce.

And at this event, I did not approach him.  He approached me without my encouragement and tried to initiate conversation.  I offered minimal responses to his questions and hoped he would back off.  Maybe it was not very polite to tell him to leave me alone, and I am sure that my frustration was obvious,  but I did not scream and curse at him, or call him names, or say mean things.  I just said "leave me alone".  

And I figured he would find out my address eventually, but to inform me that he knows it in the midst of a verbal attack seems odd.  I still can't believe that he acted like that in public.  Anyone could have been watching.  

PAndora

[Anonymous]

Pandora,

Your H won't act reasonably as you would. He's a different type of person. I believe he wanted to confront you in public to intimidate and embarrass you. And he lacks impulse control. The fact that you did not want him to know where you live speaks volumes. I would take his behavior very seriously and protect myself.

bunny

[lynn as guest]

His response was to later track me down and unleash a very upsetting barrage of verbal harrassment - forcing me to state my reasons for divorcing him (which I did state quite clearly - infidelity and dishonesty) followed by a list of ways I had failed him as a wife - selfish, nonsupportive, bad communicator, etc. (One would wonder why he wants anything to do with me at all if I am such a disappontment!)

Pandora, my stbxh does the exact same thing almost everytime I talk to him... a barrage of verbal harrassment.  Fortunately for me, most of these verbal attacks are on the telephone.  Like you, I am amazed that he can carry on with insult after insult and then conclude that we should still be married.  Even now, when I understand much more about N behavior, I am still very hurt by the tirades.  And occassionally, he still frightens me with his intensity.  When he focuses his anger on me.

At the same time, it reinforces my decision.  

My reason for posting today?  To tell you that I understand.  To share with others the pattern these N's seem to take.  

I would be careful.  It seems that these Ns can create any kind of logic to justify their behavior.  I agree with those who say it is advisable to limit or avoid contact with him altogether.  If possible, try to avoid even the smallest of conversations when you see him in public.  No matter what you say, he will turn it around and upside down and throw it right back at you.  

From what you say, I'd guess that it is unlikely that he will do something violent.  I would try not to have fear dominate my life.  On the other hand, it makes sense to use your intuitive wisdom.  If the situation seem like a threat it probably is.  In your marriage you honed your skills of identifying you NH's moods.   Trust you wisdom.  

If you feel threatened, don't try to placate.  don't try to reason.  don't try to let him down easy.   Listen to your own inner voice and get away.  You won't win any prizes for being nice.  And no matter how nice you are in reality, he will see it in his own "special" and twisted way.

Sorry to ramble.  Good luck.  Hopefully it will all fizzle out soon.  That's what I hope for.

lynn

[Onyx]

Hi Pandora and all

I've found this site useful and have taken some good advice from people such as Bunny and co. I do however have to ask myself some questions to which I'm unsure what the answers really are. I'm find myself perturbed; somewhat confused as to the labelling of people as Narcissists...etc

On reading your post, I tried to get a feel for the level of intimidation you're receiving from this guy. I tried to read between the lines and disseminate his anger and your fear. I generally got the impression, and I'm probably well wrong here, that he's behaving like a child who's had his favourite toy taken away from him! Obviously there is undoubtedly a lot more you could say. But I certainly didn't get the impression that he would move to harm you.

I still feel that you should cut off all direct communication with him, if you're certain that the relationship is at an end. I would also only offer that any communication should be via your solicitors (lawyers) and that any more verbal or implied threats should be dealt with legally and forcefully.

I do have difficulty with people labelling all divorce arguments as NPD. I can't think of many couples I've known who divorced as being happy. I can remember plenty who swore blind and cursed their other half in rage at times! But this didn't mean anything other than they were angry. As humans, we are all mostly tested to our limits at least once in our lives. This guy has cocked up and is paying the price for it. His ego is damaged...and not before time from the sound of it! So he's a prat..., but maybe one day when the pain of it all has subsided for you both, you can at least talk together again in happier times.

Onyx

[pandora]

thanks for all the replies and advice.  

I am going to keep an eye out, and try to avoid unnecessary contact with him and hope that will prevent any more incidents like this.  

I do understand that he is unhappy and frustrated with the situation.  But so am I, and I am not cornering him and yelling and cursing at him.  And I do agree that he was probably reacting defensively to my request for him to leave me alone, by responding with an attack of sorts.  I can understand his feeling rejected, but to respond like that still seems over the top.  

I am not really afraid, just feeling wary.  He has never been overtly physically violent that I know of.  But if anything else like this happens I probably will take legal action.  I think it is reasonable to be somewhat fearful when someone that is a foot taller and 100 lbs heavier is behaving in such an intimidating way.  

Lynn, it was interesting to hear that your H behaves similarly - angry that the relationship is over, yet saying such negative things that one would think that he would be happy to be out of it.  I actually thought it was possible that my H might be relieved that I was leaving him.  After all, he had so many complaints about me, and he was clearly interested in other women!   In many ways I feel that he forced me to make this decision, by behaving in more and more extreme ways.  So I thought that perhaps it was because he wanted out but that he wanted me to do the dirty work so that he did not have to take responsibility.  Well, who really knows?

[Anonymous]

I actually thought it was possible that my H might be relieved that I was leaving him.  After all, he had so many complaints about me, and he was clearly interested in other women!

You may be forgetting the male ego.

bunny

[Anonymous]

What makes you think anyone here is labeling all "divorce arguements as NPD" (not really sure what that means, actually. ) Sure, many normal people go wacky during a divorce, but that is not why people are here, because normal people they are divorcing for whatever reason have gone understandably a little wacky during a divorce procedure.  They are here because they have been dealing with abusive, abnormal, and quite possibly dangerous people that they are now trying to extricate themselves from.  The divorce process only makes what they have been going through worse, and a previously non-dangerous person can turn dangerous when faced with loss of control or of their "supply."

When a person who has behaved as pandora's has in the past starts making veiled threats, it would be smart for her to take them seriously.  You are doing her a disservice to suggest otherwise.   I know you don't mean to take it lightly, but that is what seems to be happening.  

Lizbeth (who forgot to log on, sorry)

Hi Pandora and all

I've found this site useful and have taken some good advice from people such as Bunny and co. I do however have to ask myself some questions to which I'm unsure what the answers really are. I'm find myself perturbed; somewhat confused as to the labelling of people as Narcissists...etc

On reading your post, I tried to get a feel for the level of intimidation you're receiving from this guy. I tried to read between the lines and disseminate his anger and your fear. I generally got the impression, and I'm probably well wrong here, that he's behaving like a child who's had his favourite toy taken away from him! Obviously there is undoubtedly a lot more you could say. But I certainly didn't get the impression that he would move to harm you.

I still feel that you should cut off all direct communication with him, if you're certain that the relationship is at an end. I would also only offer that any communication should be via your solicitors (lawyers) and that any more verbal or implied threats should be dealt with legally and forcefully.

I do have difficulty with people labelling all divorce arguments as NPD. I can't think of many couples I've known who divorced as being happy. I can remember plenty who swore blind and cursed their other half in rage at times! But this didn't mean anything other than they were angry. As humans, we are all mostly tested to our limits at least once in our lives. This guy has cocked up and is paying the price for it. His ego is damaged...and not before time from the sound of it! So he's a prat..., but maybe one day when the pain of it all has subsided for you both, you can at least talk together again in happier times.

Onyx