catious about both men and women now

[James]

I struggle to understand my feelings of fear now, about both women and men. This is a symtom and the burden i carry from the abuse i suffered.. With men i have had a difficult time facing my real feelings abt what happened. My father shamed me to the core and i took this as i was "something less than a man". I fear this might be true and think that other men will see it in me if i get to close and might push me away and that will hurt like it did with my dad and then i might find that i really am less than a man. I keep them at a distance.This fear prevents me from developing intimate relationships with members of my same sex and that hurts and frustrates me. With women it's a little different. Here i find myself again having failed intimate relationships because i fear being swallowed up in their identity like my mom did when she tried to absorb me. (emotional sexual abuse and other) I ultimately protect myself from this trauma by never sharing with them that i feel like "i'm not man enough" and fear i can't live up to their expectations. I worry about being rejected if i share these feelings with them.  Mostly right now i'm sorta stuck being the kid i was but want so much the understanding, love and fellowship with both sexes so i can overcome these feelings of inadequacy and find what i desire. Healthy esteem and positive intimate relationships with both sexes........James

[Certain Hope]

As a woman who's been swallowed up in relationships by other women - and also men - I can relate, James.
Having the desire and the hope for intimacy is well more than half the battle though, I think... and I believe that in time, and with practicer, the rest will come - for you and for each of us.

Carolyn

[James]

Carolyn........i believe this. I appreciate you sharing that that you've experienced something similar.  It eases my feeling of aloness and helps reduce my fears.......    thank you James

[Ami]

Dear James
  You have SO much courage. I have so much admiration  for your ability to be gut level honest. I feel the same way you do. Right now, I am completely exhausted b/c I have a friend over and she is telling me her problems. *I*, now ,after Scott's death cannot take even a small amount of stress ,w/out being exhausted.
 I am the same as I was  before BUT worse, b/c I don't have the reserves to carry the fear and defense mechanisms--bleh.
 I can't help the numbness I feel around woman(more than men, but probably men, too)
 Today, I feel discouraged b/c s/times the climb up seems  so big. I wish I did not have to climb up  mountains ,which I should have climbed in childhood.
 However, YOU are doing it and not giving up when you could, easily, I am sure.
 Thanks for being so real, James.          With Respect and Love,   Ami

[James]

Ami......i'm sorry that you are struggling with your friend right now. Exhaustion makes one feel more weary to begin with. Maybe you could not set boundaries as a child but you can do it now!  ((((((((((((((AMI)))))))))))))       Love James

[SilverLining]

I struggle to understand my feelings of fear now, about both women and men. This is a symtom and the burden i carry from the abuse i suffered.. With men i have had a difficult time facing my real feelings abt what happened. My father shamed me to the core and i took this as i was "something less than a man". I fear this might be true and think that other men will see it in me if i get to close and might push me away and that will hurt like it did with my dad and then i might find that i really am less than a man. I keep them at a distance.This fear prevents me from developing intimate relationships with members of my same sex and that hurts and frustrates me. With women it's a little different. Here i find myself again having failed intimate relationships because i fear being swallowed up in their identity like my mom did when she tried to absorb me. (emotional sexual abuse and other) I ultimately protect myself from this trauma by never sharing with them that i feel like "i'm not man enough" and fear i can't live up to their expectations. I worry about being rejected if i share these feelings with them.  Mostly right now i'm sorta stuck being the kid i was but want so much the understanding, love and fellowship with both sexes so i can overcome these feelings of inadequacy and find what i desire. Healthy esteem and positive intimate relationships with both sexes........James

Hi James.  I can relate because my childhood experience brought me to a similar place.  I was stuck between the engulfment of my codependent mother, and the non attention of my self absorbed father.  I understand now a positive father influence is necessary to make a successful transition to relationships with others outside the family system.  The positive father helps the offspring have the confidence to establish connections with "the world" both male and female.   My father wasn't so much an active physical abuser.  He just didn't do anything, other than talk about himself.   I was left to deal with the world on my own, without a positive "voice" from an encouraging parent figure.

Now the challenge is to create the positive voice for ourselves.       

[Ami]

Dear James,
 I wll tell you what happened. My friend was here. She was telling me about her H,who IS the worst H I have ever seen, and I have seen quite a few(lol)
 I wanted to give to her,but after a half an hour, I felt exhausted and shaky. I told her that I wished that I could help ,but I have very few reserves, and not even enough to listen to problems, right now. I said that I was very sorry,but I had to go. She said(nastily),"You were NOT very good (i.e. strong) before. I said,"That is true,but I am WORSE, now."(lol)
 I guess that I need to respect the physical state of shock ,which I  have . I  am told by other parents ,who lost a child, that I may have it  for a year.
 Also, I am facing the truth about my M, her pathological selfishness. It is a bite--a real bite.Part of my emotional illness(the biggest part) was that I wanted her to be a loving and caring mother. I chose to believe that lie, rather than face the truth, which is she would destroy me to feel  a little better about herself ---bleh.
 Only s/one with N parents could understand .
 I have SUCH a rage against her ,right now. Thanks for caring,James, and for your hug. It reached through cyberspace to me. Ami


PS  I always think of Kelly ,with this. Many M's who lose children never get their periods ,again. Mine is two months late .Kelly, you can imagine how I feel----bleh.

[James]

Hi Silver lining..........thank you having the courage to share with me your own story in this area.......James

[James]

Ami..........i am sorry that you went thru your friends visit like it was. You are experiencing so many difficult issues that weigh one down. i understand how it feels to be so burdened and it feels like one more issue might just be too much.  i can't imagine more pain than dealing with grief over the loss of a child and at the same time having to face the reality that your mother showed little if any love to you back then. It has to be so overwhelming at times for. I still have difficulty setting boundaries simply because i'm afraid sometimes. I'm glad you set one today even though what she said might be very painful. Its not about you. You are becoming a very strong person thru your honesty and courage..................Hug James

[Ami]

Love You, James. You are right about boundaries. I learned a good lesson, today, about them ,anyway---bleh(lol)   Hugs to you,  Ami

PS I guess what is happening is good-everything is shaken up .Nothing is the same BUT what am I leaving behind? Dysfunction--Right?
We will get there,kid!

[James]

A real incident how this plays out in my life occured recently. Last fall i met a girl i liked. I havent spoken to her in 1 month and think i have figured out what i have been doing  wrong. I am starting to see the old FOO dynamics. My parents they actually forbid any feelings and needs of mine. I became lost essentially and never really knew how to develop intimate relationships and explore my feelings while allowing others to touch me with theirs. I have kept a wall around myself and never understood what intimacy really was and how walls don't play into this very well. Again i could only get so close, i probably pushed her away by projecting in some way my history on her. Possibly causing her pain or at the very least frustration. I am not sure what she really thinks since i havent talked with her. It makes me nervous to think of calling and explainingg what has been going in my head all these years. I dont mind apologizing if it was something i did, but the fear of rejection prevents me from doing this. The thought of this happening triggers fear of my parents crushing rejection. Recently my therapist told me she shes me as having intimacy problems and i agree. I see true intimacy as requiring vulnerability on both sides and this feels very challenging. I basically feel flawed and letting someone know this causes me a great deal of anxiety..........James

[Ami]

Dear James,
 I think that when we are abused, we develop terrible shame. Shame makes us want to hide our true selves ,so we don't get rejected,again. Our pain from FOO (family of origin) rejection is so intense that although we want a close connection with others, we often sabatage it, too.
 It is a continual push and pull(toward and away from intimacy) which is VERY painful and upsetting.
 Before we can allow s/one to see us, we have to have enough 'core" to survive iF they reject us. That is  really hard for us, as abused people.
 Intimacy is "in to me you see". This involves having  enough self to even allow another person to see us.
 As to your situation, I am not sure what to do. I think that if you ask YOUR gut and heart, you will get the answer. Our heart always knows the answers ,if we will listen.
 I feel for you, James. I suffer with the same fears of intimacy . Relationships  hurt, even if you are the sanest person in the world. I think the key is knowing that you can survive ,if the worst happens and the person rejects you.
 Relationships are always a risk, for everyone. It just hurts so much more when you have been abused.
 I would think of every chance you take as a way to build strength in yourself, no matter WHAT happens. That will take the pressure off and you will "win" either way, even though it may hurt. However, you can share it here and people will help you.
                                                                               Love and Hugs     Ami

[James]

Hi Ami ......thank you for your valuable insights. It soothes me to hear your reflections about this matter as i can see you are right. I am very sensitive from the abuse and fear rejection and being hurt all over again. This may be my first step in trying to overcome this particular problem. I really do have the option to take it one step at a time rather than rushing to achieve everything all at once.  In the past i often rushed to change something and then i self -sabotaged by feeling like a failure when things dont work out, sometimes retreating back inside for long periods. I did not see it until now, that this was exactly the way i was treated back then as they placed unreasonable demands on me and offered no help or understanding. Often i felt  like a failure and was rejected by them. I see i've been doing this all along to my self. I think your idea of building a core inner strength is a great idea and perhaps this along with time and not being too hard on myself may help prevent the feelings of failure that can keep me isolated and lonely. ii think i need patience and understanding from others and also my self. Hopefully i will find there are other people out there who are different from my parents. I think i've been stuck fearing their old reactions in the eyes of other people. Ever since i was small i had the sense that the truth was where it was really at. I could not really describe the feeling back then but now with age i see i was right. Glad you spoke up i dont feel so alone now and your sharing this helps give me faith that others will understand..........love James

[Ami]

Dear James,
 I have gotten in to many self sabataging and destructive patterns in my relationships. I was replaying old FOO tapes--bleh. I am finding my core.
The core is essential. If not,it will be a fake relationship.
If we don't have access to our core, we cannot share it with s/one else, which IS the definition of intiimacy.
 I think that there is no better human experience that letting s/one see you and vice versa. Emotional intimacy is the hardest,but the most beautiful intimacy.
 You are right to see finding your core as the first step.
  You have changed so much from your first posts on the board, that you hardly seem like the same person. Do you feel very  different?
                                                       Love    Ami
 

[James]

Ami.....I agree with everything you wrote and yes i think i'm feeling a lot better. Hoping it will last and take hold.................Thanks James