Author Topic: Abuse and religion  (Read 3401 times)

Betelgeuse

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Abuse and religion
« on: March 25, 2008, 04:38:36 PM »
Warning: no disrespect of religious beliefs intended!! I just want to share some personal experiences and thoughts.

As a child, I had a complicated relationship with God.

In my religious family He was very present, as were Jesus and the Virgin Mary. I used to love the crib at Xmas, the candles, the carols and hymns. The church gave colour, warmth and depth to my life. It also increased my guilt and shame.

At age four or five, I made a momentous discovery and told my mother (who was bent on destroying my individuality) about it. In my head I can say whatever I want. My mother replied that I couldn't, because God saw me. That was a terrible moment. A critical, condemning, judgemental God, an extension of my parents, entered my head then, and took my newly discovered freedom of thought away.

At my First Communion I was terribly worried about being unworthy and maybe having hurt Jesus by not letting him melt enough on my tongue.

When I was eight, the physical abuse was so bad I frequently thought I'd die. My reliogiosity increased and I got into the habit of going to mass every morning before school. The church was dark then, only a few candles were lit, there was hardly anybody there. I'd sit down in a pew, follow the motions and cry. At the beginning of the mass I usually was in a state of great distress and told God all about the terrible things that had happened to me and how unfair it was. There was a space in me for an understanding God, to him I spoke. I knew he knew how bad it all was. Deeper down there was another space that I invariably reached, where God saw what a bad child I was and how I needed to improve (that's what the priest said during confession, you have to be respectful of your mother). By the end of mass I made all sorts of resolutions to behave better so as not to be beaten. On good days, the kind God would smile on me, warm my heart and I'd be more or less ready for a new day. On bad days, I felt utterly alone.

(For days on end the priest saw a crying child, alone by herself, in morning mass and never ever came to talk to her. Of course, my parents were pillars of the community.)

I lost my faith when I was fifteen, after a great internal struggle. It was a major step towards liberating my mind.

Of course I don't believe religious people are more abusive than atheists. But I do believe that abusive people, when religious, will acquire a special brand of self-righteousness and use religion as an instrument of (further) oppression. In her autobiography, Mary McCarthy posits that religion is only beneficial to people who are already good, whereas it makes bad people worse.

That's definitely my experience.

Bee


Ami

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Re: Abuse and religion
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2008, 05:29:42 PM »
Dear Bee,
 One of the saddest types of abuse is abuse using God. I grew up in an agnostic family, so Thank Goodness, did not have abuse using God.
 I found God, as an adult, on my own. My family was against it, so I had no family interference.
 Bee, God was never bad,it was your parents and the religious organization, dear friend.              Love    Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

seasons

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Re: Abuse and religion
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2008, 05:52:13 PM »
Bee,

How sad and terrified you must of felt. I can't imagine being in church and being ignored, as a young hurt child. You were so brave to go and to trust and then so painful that trust was squashed.

I'm sorry God was used against you in so many ways. I can understand how you would feel now. ((((Bee))))

with warm, seasons

"Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak Kindly. Leave the Rest to God."
Maya Angelou

debkor

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Re: Abuse and religion
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2008, 06:26:00 PM »
Betelgeuse,

This subject is a real sore spot for me.  Abuse is an understatement (in my experience).  I don't think I had a complicated relationship with God I had a complicated relationship with the people who were teaching me.  They were so emotionally abusive.
They taught by fear and shame in all aspects.  I would see beatings, hear screaming, name-calling and I was totally terrorized by them.

I worried so much about being a Sinner.  I was 6.  If I said, shut up, I thought I would go straight to hell.  If I was thinking (curse words) in my head I would sweat bullets turn red and just about pass out when I had to enter a confessional.  I even remember the musty smell.  Anxiety was at an all time high. I didn't' even know what anxiety was at the time.

This came from the people teaching me.  This was not what I really believed about God, yet, I had to deal with all those people and remain *Voiceless* wow never thought of it that way till just now.  That is exactly what I was.

I can honestly tell you that I know not one thing about the teachings.  I don't remember any of it.  I was so fearful instead of listening I was always worried *would I get it right* Oh God, please let them skip my turn.

Now all this time I had no clue how to put exactly what was going on.  I didn't even know it was abuse. I was little.  I kind of went with the flow. Just shut up, it will keep moving on, you will get out someday and never go back. And I never did.

I was so traumatized by them I never expressed this with my mom (which I could) but the way they did things I thought no one could over power them.  They were to close to God for me to open my mouth. Fear! Shame! Sinner! Stupid! Oh and many guilt trips they set up for you.

I think my mom picked up on something though.  I know I did not have to attend church with the class in the mornings on Sunday (which was a big no, no) and you would be tortured if you were not there come Monday.

My mom, I think, memories are fuzzy, blasted on of the Nuns out of the water when she tried to bully my mom about me.  Hmm,
I believe that was the day I never went back to sitting with the class.

I still went to church but with my mom and another church, which seems so much more relaxed.

This went on till 8th grade where I became somewhat of a rebel.  I put together what was really happening and found my voice.

Now don't get me wrong.  I had been to other places with my same faith and it was so different.  I was really confused then.  They were nice and I enjoyed them.

When I was an adult I realized that it was not so much my faith what I was being taught it was the people who were running the school and teaching the teachings.  Would I say now?  N's yes I would maybe even some psychopaths.

They may have ruined a good experience for me with the teachings (the way they did it) but they did not ruin my belief in God!
He over powered them all.  That I never lost. 

What they were trying to drill and drill into me through abuse, shame and terror actually destroyed everything they said.  I have no clue what they said; well actually, I do but all the bad wrong things and nothing to do with religion. 

So I do believe but not from any help of them. I guess there really is a higher power.  Cause someone sure made me keep the faith and got me through their crazies.

Love
Deb

Betelgeuse

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Re: Abuse and religion
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2008, 05:44:28 PM »
Dear Ami, Seasons, Deb,

Thank you so much for your replies. I couldn't respond earlier because starting this topic unleashed a whole flood of painful memories. This is stuff I never talk about with people in my life (though I have done so in therapy, a little).

Deb, I loved reading what you wrote on Ami's thread. Your mother seems to have been caring and nurturing to you, although she couldn't entirely protect you from the nuns at first. At least the convent school abuse wasn't carried forwards into your family life. My case is different, unfortunately. Home was a prison, held within the larger prison of the church. Only school offered an escape (the wild seventies, reading Sartre during religious instruction, haha). Church/family seemed to be a symbiotic system, like lichen, based on patriarchal values, obedience and abuse, each reinforcing the other. By breeding/encouraging self-righteousness in my parents, the church of my childhood facilitated abuse.

Of course, I never had the impression my parents' religious beliefs had anything to do with love or wisdom. It was all about dogma's, proper observance of the rites and no sex before marriage. Well.. I won't drone on.

hugs

Bee

flowerpower

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Re: Abuse and religion
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2008, 07:33:33 PM »
Bee,

I wanted to post to say I have similar experiences with religion and a rigid, cold upbringing both at religious school and home.

I am too drained after a long day at work to say much, but wanted you to know I empathize with your experience and am very sorry that you experienced abuse.

*hugs*

flower

axa

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Re: Abuse and religion
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2008, 04:43:52 PM »
Bee,

Your post resonates with me also.  I remember the fear and terror of being condemed to hell because I had eaten meat on a Friday - I was 8 years old.  I was terrified of dying and too ashamed to tell my terrible sin in confession........... how sad.  Unfortunately my home life was also filled with terror, also, always trying to be a good girl and always failing, never good enough.  I have carried this legacy all my life and struggle with a fundamental internalised belief that I am bad.  I can rationalise this and know that it is not true but this feeling of badness is lies beneath all rationalisation.  It was just so wrong to do that to a little child.  I was very moved by your post.

axa

Gabben

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Re: Abuse and religion
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2008, 06:11:52 PM »
[Of course I don't believe religious people are more abusive than atheists. But I do believe that abusive people, when religious, will acquire a special brand of self-righteousness and use religion as an instrument of (further) oppression. In her autobiography, Mary McCarthy posits that religion is only beneficial to people who are already good, whereas it makes bad people worse.


Dear Bee,

Thanks for your post. I like the line above -- it is rings true to my experience.

Up until I was 11 I had a deep faith in Christ and loved Him as well as I enjoyed my time spent in prayer. My faith gave me relief and hope.

When I was eleven, while walking to school, I was brutally kidnapped and assaulted.

In the aftermath, the dismisive way it was handled by my Catholic school, furthered my already declining doubts about God's love for me and my low self-esteem.

The brokenness of my experience was never quite put back together, with my shattered faith, and no one to help me, I reclined farther away from God.

It was not until my 30's, in despair, I returned to the Catholic faith. Most of the joy of my walk into conversion has been personal, just God and me; I find comfort in the Holy Mass, the Bread, the Sacraments, prayer, etc.. the faith and hope of eternal life gave me a whole new perspective, especially as I continued to go deeper into my faith.

One of  the things that brought me to this board was a fellow church member who I thought was a living saint, however, I was naive, she was a wolf in sheep's clothing, an N of the worst type the "silent betrayer" or "the smiling two faced backstabber."

She made me doubt again and at one point I actually wanted to leave the church again. But I went to prayer and realized that the dark spiritual forces actually work the hardest on the church, there are many impostors who's mission is exactly that, to separate and divide the good sheep out of the flock.

I love my faith and will never give it up again -- that is a strong statement I know -- I also love others and know that their walk with God and faith is separate from mine and unique to how God's loves and heals them.

Peace,
Lise

« Last Edit: March 27, 2008, 06:49:55 PM by Gabben »

Ami

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Re: Abuse and religion
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2008, 06:24:28 PM »
I am so thankful I did not have any abuse in God's name. That must be really hard to overcome.  I found Him,on my own, against the wishes of my family, really.
 It must be really hard to connect with God when He has been paired with such pain. I am so sorry , Lise, Bee, Axa, Deb and Flowerpower.                                        Love,   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Gabben

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Re: Abuse and religion
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2008, 06:29:24 PM »
Also, Bee -- just wanted to convey how much sorrow felt for you as I read your story. I never had to endure physical violence and I cannot even imagine how painful that would be at the hands of our own parents --((((((((((((((((Bee)))))))))))))))


Betelgeuse

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Re: Abuse and religion
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2008, 10:28:48 AM »
Dear Flower, Axa, Ami and Gabben,

Ah... the paradox! Your kind words are heartwarming but I'm sad you also had to live through horrible experiences. What strikes me in your responses is the rigidity of your (and my) family life and religious upbringing. As I said, I'm not a believer but I suppose a spiritual life requires being able to handle metaphor and symbols (the catholic faith is so full of them). Our rigid, abusive families presumably lacked imagination and condemned us to literalness. God Axa, your horror at having eaten meat on a Friday is just like my Communion experience!

Gabben, I'm so sorry you had to live through that nightmare and weren't supported by your school. Your spiritual beliefs seem to be life-enhancing for you.

There are many roads leading to Rome. And many roads lead away from it.. :)

Bee


Ami

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Re: Abuse and religion
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2008, 12:07:04 PM »
((((((((((Bee))))))))))))))))))                                                         Love, Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

debkor

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Re: Abuse and religion
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2008, 12:42:26 PM »
Ah yet something else I remembered.  I was so worried I was going to chew the host instead of letting it dissolve in my mouth.

Ah Bee and Axa,

I sure do know what happened even as a child.  Just couldn't understand it then as I do now. 
They were so powerfull at the time.   

I seen what went on with my own eyes.

I am sorry. 


Love
Deb

mudpuppy

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Re: Abuse and religion
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2008, 12:43:16 PM »
Quote
There are many roads leading to Rome.


God doesn't live in Rome, He lives in the heart of man.
The abuses of putative believers or the church no more establishes the character of God than the abuses of atheists or Stalin and Mao proves that he exists. All any of that demonstrates is how vile man can be.

The God I know neither condemns nor judges me. In fact He has guaranteed neither shall happen to me regardless of what my family or others say or do. He not only freed my mind but my spirit as well.

mud

axa

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Re: Abuse and religion
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2008, 04:54:17 AM »




HI Bee,

Yes, I can still remember the terror in bed at night before I went to sleep, at that time, KNOWING I was going to hell if I died during the night.  I have not thought a lot about the impact of my religious experience as a child but on reading this thread I guess I just shut it off and pretended it did not happen.  But I am beginning to think that my desperate need for rules and knowing the rules comes from this part of my life.  With my Nparents, there were no rules or else there was nothing but rules - complete chaos and unpredictability.  I think I took on board the rules of the church and believed them, even the crazy ones.  My home life was crazy and the church offered rules which in my child mind I interpreted as Be a good Girl and Good things will happen, you will be rewarded.  I obviously thought this applied to earth! as well as heaven!!!!!  This is a significant insight for me.  In times of madness with XN I kept trying to do the right thing or should I say what I thought was the right thing - you give your word and make a commitment - you stick with it, you show love when there is no love shown.  I could never understand why my rational adult mind was not screaming GET OUT but of course the more abusive the situation the more I regressed into the child part of me.  Of course, waiting for the reward..........all would come right in the end all I had to do was keep following the rules. 

Thank you for bringing this up I appreciate it and feel it helps me make sense of things I had given up on.  I felt so let down by God after my experience with the church.  For so long I held onto the belief that he would save me but......... that did not happen. I recall when my daughter was born I was so grateful and thankful that I decided there had to be a God and was filled with gratitude.  I prayed with such joy, sadly she was diagnosed with a terminal illness and I felt I had been duped AGAIN.  I felt so stupid that somehow this God would hear my prayers of gratitude and allow me the joy of my lovely daughter in my life.  My anger did not turn to God, well who was God anyway, but on myself for being so dumb as to hope.  I closed my heart again and concentrated on loving my daughter while she was alive and a strange thing happened.  When she was dying I felt as if I was being held by such a greater power.  I experience such joy with her on those last days that I know were not of this world and other than that it is hard to explain it.  I was loved and I knew she was safe.  I knew I had to let her go because her time on this earth was over and I knew I would be ok.  I now have tears streaming down my face writing this but it truly was the most beautiful experience of my life.  How to say this about the death of my child is strange, but it is true.  I know she is doing fine, I just do. 

Since that time I have a soft and loving connection with God.  I met Xn months after my daughter's death and he used to say that God sent him to me to take care of me as I needed to be cared for.  Well I fell for that crap and as time went on raged with God for ending up in the mess I did.  It took me a long time to figure out that it was my mess not Gods........... anyway where that leaves me is in a relationship with God which is personal and mostly soft.......thought I do still rage occasionally.  I hate the ritual of church services so do not partake in them.  I feel sadded by the dreadful violence in the world in the name of God........  I took a theology class recently as an option on my course and found it very difficult.  In class there were people from many faiths and with many perspectives.  One day the prof read a passage which people discussed, it made my blood boil, there were so many interpretations, depending on which faith people belonged to, whether they were fundamentalists or whatever the oppositie is.  At the end of the class I made my contribution which made sense to me - IMO God is not about words, God is an experience.  I have seen the devistation and violence raged in Gods name and it is so the opposite to my sense of God........anyway, these are just my opinions and no doubt there are many who have other opinions who are just as valid to them.  So I  love visiting churches but empty ones.  I felt my experience when my D died was real and whole and in many ways beyond words and rituals and I guess that is how I would like to keep it.

Apologies for the length of this post, I had no idea I was going to write all this..........oops just shed a lot of tears.

Thanks Deb & Ami,

axa