Author Topic: More work on shame  (Read 12438 times)

debkor

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2008, 11:02:19 PM »
GS,


Isn't it great.  You just know there is a job to do and you do it.  I'm so happy you don't feel shame.  You really are there GS

P.S.

Also when you really don't feel like doing something and you decide not to for the day or so, there is still no shame, you just don't feel like it.  You can leave wait what can (without shame). 

I still have a 2nd coat of paint I need to do in my living room and my attitude is, I don't feel like it right now, and that's it.  No shame and then we laugh. 

You need to go to the store and look for those hand held kid games.  They have one called whack a mole and little moles come up and taunt you, you can't get me, ha ha, hey that's not fair, No fair every time you whack them. 
They are so much fun (and addictive) my kids and friends bought one and we had group  marathons going on at one point.  My dogs went nuts all those moles yelling out at the same time.  WHACK! 

Love
Deb

axa

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2008, 03:32:35 AM »
Have not been reading or posting much but hit on this topic this morning.  I am full of shame at is as if I am a vessel waiting to hold others shame for them. 

This morning I planned to get up early and go to the gym.  I keep putting it off.  I know when I go there I feel great, physically and emotionally and yet I avoid it all the time.  It's not like i don't wake up - I do.  I have my bag packed but then I stop myself going.  It is so active this stopping, I find it hard to explain.  Reading this thread this morning has set something in place.  I know my avoidance of doing what is healthy for me is linked with shame.  I do not understand the link but now that I have made some connection I believe it will come.  I have so much shame, it weighs me down and I know it is not mine yet I continue to carry it. 

Struggling axa

Gaining Strength

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2008, 10:49:02 AM »
axa - I am stopped from going to the gym by shame as well.  I believe you are correct about that link.  Perhaps you can address the shame without even knowing the root of it.  Call it by name, call it false and say it doesn't belong to you. Claim the opposite of shame - whatever that is for you - love, confidence, belonging. 

Rejection and shame are so closely linked for me.

I am going to write about something more in a minute.  I want to leave this post for now.

LilyCat

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #48 on: April 15, 2008, 11:12:26 AM »
GS,

I am new here to the board; I saw your posting just now and it really touched me. So, while I registered I read just a littlie of your story on the other venue.

I so hear and understand your story, and I just wanted to tell you that anything, most especially healing, is possible. The key is to have the immense amount of courage it takes to let yourself fully feel your feelings -- of shame, of anger, of whatever. It can be a long, long journey to get there, but you and anyone can do it. It is the greatest gift you can give to yourself.

The power to heal lies not in substituting other behaviors, or running away from our feelings or denying them; or in over-analyzing our families and significant others. Rather, it lies in giving ourselves permission to go to those dark places. You can only discover the light by walking, sometimes fearlessly, sometimes most fearfully, into the dark. Just make sure you walk with someone fully able to grasp your hand firmly while you do so -- i.e., a really good therapist.

How do I know? I know all about voicelessness. I have battled it all my life; I never heard it called such until I stumbled onto Dr. Goodman's site, while trying to heal from an unfathomable hurt someone had cast upon me.

This is not the moment to tell you my story, so I'll just tell you that my therapist, who is as practical and reliable and expert as they come, tells me that my family background puts me at the far end of the bell curve ... nearly off the charts. I have worked my whole adult life -- some 25 years -- to overcome the abuse and neglect and lack of caring, and lack of empathy. (Along with some other bad, bad things that happened.) It has been a long journey, and sometimes in the last few years it has felt not a little embarrassing to know that I have been in therapy this long -- yet I know with all that is in me that it has been necessary, and that I have wasted very little time. However my therapist said "jump", I asked how high -- and did my best to reach that height.

It took me a long time to understand my mother's neglect; in the early years of my group therapy, my fellow members said my life was just like a real-life Cinderella -- one of the things that I identified with in your post. It took me quite a few years to measure the hole that my mother left me in -- but I did, centimeter by centimeter, until I knew, and felt, the full and exact dimensions of that hole. I know exactly how wide and how deep and how long it is; and if you can understand this, I consciously carry those dimensions, and that image around with me, so I never forget ... but I also worked very hard to climb out of it, and I have. But the remembrance is important not for clinging's sake, but so that I always know why it is I need to be patient and kind with myself, and a good parent to myself.

My father's abuse was always the most visible and certainly not to be underestimated, but it was my mother's lack of caring that did by far the most damage. It was a real one-two punch.

Like everyone else here (I guess?) I never developed a voice, except through music (classical) and writing and poetry and other forms of artistic expression. Much of my dad's abuse involved tyrannical storms of verbal abuse in which I was not allowed to say a word; to speak up or defend myself before he was ready would have been suicide in  my household. Finally, when his verbal reign of terror was over, he would say "Say!" and then I was magically supposed to come up with the perfect explanation for my "crime" (I never did much wrong -- I was too afraid to). Of course, by that time he had completely ground me into nothing, so aside from the fact that there was no perfect answer (except that I was a child), even if there had been, I wouldn't have been able to give it. I was completely shut down.

This, of course, was the obvious hammer that pounded me into silence, in addition to the very real factors that Dr. Goodman talks about -- all so very, very true for me. All my life I wondered why I never could answer questions about what I wanted, or why I seem to have so little conversation within me (except for artistic things) ... when I found Dr Goodman's article on Little Voices, it was the overlay I needed to understand at the next level. It was wonderful.

And here's where I begin to get to my point: underneath all those layers, and all those feelings, and all the many years of earnest work I did in therapy, I felt a deep shame. Shame because of the neglect and abuse -- why wasn't I good enough to be cared for? -- shame because of the neglectful (literally messy) way my family lived, and many other external factors. I had a brother who was injured in a horrible accident and left highly brained damaged and incapacitated; I even felt deep shame when out in public with him, as if there were something wrong with me/us for having a brother in that condition. (And I guess the case could be made that there was, given the circumstances of his accident.) Being ashamed of him, of course, made me feel even more ashamed. (I did feel great compassion and love and all what you might expect, but the shame was there.)

...on some distant level I felt the shame and knew about it, but it was so deep and pervasive and troubling that it remained in the background for all those years.

Then finally, for whatever reason, I got in touch with it some time last year. I had let myself travel the road to my complete emptiness, and allowed myself to feel that emptiness (and boy, was it/is it empty). It is a hard, hard, HARD thing to do, and very scary. But I'm glad I did, even if it's painful and certainly not resolved yet.

Somehow in that process is where my consciousness of shame arose. Here, this thing at the core of my being that had been at the foundation of my soul for as long as I have been alive, was alive and breathing and letting itself be made known. I allowed myself to admit how shameful I felt, and I named it in group the next time I went.

And you know what? As soon as I named it, it went away. It was that fast. I no longer feel it. All I had to do was acknowledge it, name a few reasons why, and name it for myself. Poof! Gone.

I'm sure that was only possible because of all the previous work, but boy, what a joy to have it gone and how freeingI I no longer feel shame.

A great deal of what I have gotten in touch with this past year, especially the past few months, arose from this very, very hurtful thing that someone did to me (long story); actually, he did it twice. After the first time, in the midst of feeling my feelings about what he'd done, and in that awful state of confusion, the word "offend" came flashing into my head. It happened to be Lent (last year). I had been thinking about how I had offended him (not really, it was the other way around) ... and those thoughts lead me to the question, What could I have done that was so awful, how could I have so offended my parents as a little child, that they ignored me and neglected me and abused me and did anything but nurture and affirm me?

The answer, of course, is that I could have done nothing. All this (the neglect, the abuse) was set in place and going on long before I even reached the age of 3 or 4. The deal was well cemented by then.

I was a child. There was nothing I could have done as a little child that would have offended them, or justified any of their behavior.

In an instant it was so clear that it was them, not me. I was just a little, innocent, helpless, vulnerable child. I could have done nothing. I needed them, and they chose not to understand and support that normal childhood need, but to foist their own values and needs upon me. I was to exist for them, not for myself.

It was so incredibly freeing to realize that. Two very important guideposts: understanding finally that I had committed no offense; there was nothing in me that brought this on; and naming the shame.

All that said, I want you to know that people are complex. My parents were actually two of the best people on earth. Yes, they were very freaky to me (the only word that came to mind just now), but I know, because I saw it, that they had hearts of gold and were truly good people. Sometimes I have had a glimpse of how empty my mother must have been, to neglect me so and use her own child to fill her needs; and although I'll never know what, I know that there was something within my dad that caused him to rage at me so, and bully me. But eventually we became very close; the man I once wished dead became, for the last 10 years of his life, my best friend and one of the greatest joys of my life. He changed, we both changed.

So, that is my message for you: hope and encouragement. I think, from quickly reading your post, that you are a Christian; or at least very spiritual. so here is my very best bit of encouragement: no matter what, put God first in your life. As it says in Proverbs, "Lean not to thine own understanding, but in all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He will make straight thy paths." (As best as I can remember the exact words.)

I think the source of my strength and healing and endurance is that I love God; God is always first in my heart. My one great gift in this life is that I was born loving God in my heart; I never had to "come" to God; God was always there. If I have one talent, it is submitting myself to God each and every second; always, eternally putting myself before God with every breath. It is not so much that I have relied on God as a source of strength; most times, I confess, I haven't felt so much coming back or that my prayers were answered (oh, if you only knew!), but I've loved God anyway; my "getting" things is not the point (yet at the same time I have a keen awareness of God's presence in my life, even if I don't know exactly how or where or what it is; I think it is in just the very act of loving).

The great story of humankind, and of God's endless love and mercy and understanding, is that transformation and healing are always possible. People sometimes misunderstand, I think, and believe that these things are just to be given to us. Not so. It is our job and indeed our purpose and even our joy, to do the work we need to do to become complete and whole human beings. We must. But God will always be there to guide us in it, and to make straight our pathway ... even if it takes 25 years (and it will be more) of therapy, or a lifetime.

God bless you, and may you always walk in the light of God's peace and understanding. God's light is on you, and on all of us.

seasons

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #49 on: April 15, 2008, 11:18:38 AM »
GS,
Wow, way to go girl. I'm so happy for you, you continue to inspire. seasons
"Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak Kindly. Leave the Rest to God."
Maya Angelou

Gaining Strength

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #50 on: April 15, 2008, 11:38:51 AM »
I haven't read the last three posts.  I was working on this post.  This is the real working out of this dark, gross poison of my soul.  I'm dumping it here - no more welcomed in my being.

Beginning yesterday afternoon I experienced what I have written about in this link - a slip back into shame.  I want to write about this here because it is a strange, baffling experience.  I worked diligently yesterday, accomplishing real reorganization in the room that has been completely overwhelming possibly for years. 

When I picked my 7 year old up from school, he asked about my day.  When I told him what I had done, he said, "I'll believe it when I see it."  I laughed out loud and wondered internally if I had promised too many times that I would straighten up.  When we got home and he walked in he fell out in a feigned faint - (he is very comedicly dramatic.)

Later in the afternoon I felt myself slipping.  Last night I kept slipping, slipping.  The signs are very subtle.  By 7pm I knew I had slipped but could not do the things that help pull me out.  At 8 I remember thinking to myself - "I'm falling into depression - no, it's not depression, what is it?  It's that shame again. I should use those techniques to break out.  I'm too tired, I can't."  But I wasn't tired, I had already slipped into that paralysis.  I could not access the way out.  When I am in this state I slip into a weak, passive place where I do not have the strength to oppose my son's strong will.  I could not battle him to bath him or put him to bed. 

Let me digress for a moment.  Yesterday, before I got up I was using an image to help me overcome that morning paralysis and shame.  (Each morning at dawn, the shame comes in like a thief at night and binds me filling me with anxiety about everything past and future.)  I imagined a man and woman praying for me and loving me.  They immediately transformed into my parents when I was 6.  My father was waking me in the morning.  He picked me up and my clothes and took me downstairs to my mother in the kitchen.  In this image I was struggling as we approached the kitchen because I could see that my mother did not want me with her.  She wanted to be alone to finish her work.  She did not want to include me in her world. (this image within the image was my memory/experience)  But in this image the woman intervened and took over for my mother and welcomed me and loved me and called me into the kitchen where she helped me dress and let me help her cook and prepare breakfast.  It was a transforming little experience - suddenly to imagine what a home filled with love would have been like as a child.  Instead what I experienced was rejection and shaming.

My real life was more like this. Once my father woke me I would go into this shaming place - "knowing" (it was not conscious - only now can I put words to it) that when I got downstairs the criticism and rejection would begin.  So when I was awaken, I wanted to go back to bed, to hide there rather than face getting dressed and going to the breakfast table where the subtle but stomach wrenching stuff would begin.  As a consequence I would do anything but get dressed.  When breakfast was ready my mother would ring a bell.  It was when the bell was rung that I would in agony, finally get dressed so that when I got downstairs my father would rail, about anything, about everything, about how long it took me to get to the table, about how I held the fork, about how I cut the bacon, about how much I ate or whether I used sugar on my cereal.  He had a rule about how much milk we could use in the cereal – only enough to make the cereal rise, he belittled us if we put sugar on the grapefruit, he only allowed us to put 3” of water in the bathtub and on and on and on.  (I never knew this “railing” was abusive because it was done in a manner of “discipline” and it was not “loud” or in “anger” but was very, very controlling. I thought it was love – that is the severe damage – this controlling, demanding attitude was what I experienced as love.)

I wasn’t the only child who hated going downstairs in the morning. My oldest brother would go through a similar process while my middle brother would get up, dress and go get the paper and be at the table before I even got dressed.

 This process that started at such an early age got completely ingrained. Now I must break it.

OK, back to that image of a loving home that I had yesterday morning.  I got an insight into my mother.  She was unconsciously functioning at a level of shame herself.  She would go to the kitchen every morning out of obligation not out of joy or love.  She was under my father’s thumb of criticism and sneering cynicism as were we.  She felt impotent and judged and criticized as did I.  Life was a very, very subtle pressure cooker.  When the pressure is turned up slowly, like the pot of water that the frog is in, it isn’t obvious that the temperature is rising.  As the temperature rises any outside stimulus is agitating.  So the needs of a child, the desire to learn, the desire to help, etc. become not an opportunity for expressing love but simply another demand that cannot be met.

To complete the circle in this understanding – I recognize this shutting down.  I shut down last night when it was time to bath my son and put him to bed.  I started to shut down this morning when he resisted getting up but then I found the place of love to go to to  get him up, dressed and fed and to school.  In order to heal myself and my son, I must go to this place of love rather than this place of shame and anxiety and feeling of being overwrought/overwhelmed.

This is the healing process.  This is the understanding and the unlocking of the prison door.  Where I am today sends me back into my past and unlocks those prison doors.  This is how the shaming gets transformed and the love begins to heal. 

I cannot tell you how difficult this is to write and post.  I fear being jumped and criticized.  I fear condemnation.  I don’t believe these fears are really attached to this post.  I believe they are attached to my childhood experiences.  I am severing my ties to those experiences.  I am finding my way out. 

SHUT OUT
On April 9, 2008 Reply 26, I typed this, “ In the past when I have gotten some work done I would get frozen out for a significant period.  This week the freeze out period was 4 days.  The shortest ever.  Wonder how long from today?”

This was a major breakthrough – to understand that addressing shame and breaking through shame actually brings on a bout of paralysis.  Each bout is actually shaming on top of the deeply encrusted shame already existing.  It is shame on top of shame, burying me deeper and deeper.  Each level I break through gets encrusted or re-encrusted, trapping me yet again.  Now that I know it, now that I call it by name I am breaking that process, breaking that re-encrustation.  Once that gets broken then the whole crust of shame begins to shatter, begins to break up, and finally, once the re-encrustation process is destroyed the real healing begins.

I have not only been trapped by shame.  I have been trapped by a re-encrustation process.  Now I see that each and every time I made process I got re-trapped.  OMG.  This is a painful and freeing realization and understanding.  You see, each and every time I worked on this paralysis – oh it goes back as far a my memory goes, my mind is just flooding with time after time that I “vowed” to overcome some failing only to be trapped in a cycle of “vowing” and striving and failing and “vowing” and striving and failing – digging deeper and deeper – accelerating to get out of the mud – getting deeper and deeper.

This is one of the biggest breakthroughs yet.

The re-encrustation process has worked against me all these years.  I got to a point that even thinking about trying to overcome this stuff was shaming.  Just the very desire to make the changes and overcome the paralysis would trigger the whole shaming process.  That is how insidious shame is.  It is completely binding in on itself.  And this re-encrustation process is a major entrapment part. 

I am suffering today from what I called “frozen out” on April 9th.  I am thankful for this because today I understand this “frozen out” experience and today I name it “re-encrustation” and by naming it I have dominion over it and destroy it.  The cycle is broken today.  And by breaking this cycle true healing will come rushing in.

This has been a slow but important process.  I kept battling this shame with the help and encouragement from this board, from individuals on this board allowed because of the existence of this place.  Bit by bit, step by step I have pushed and crawled and scrambled to get one step farther.  I am so thankful that I have made these steps recently – that I cleaned and organized my pantry 10 days ago, that I made progress in my bedroom a week ago, that I made progress on my business Friday,  that I made great headway in our den yesterday.  That’s a lot of progress and I must claim that progress in order to shatter the re-encrustation that I am in today. 

This is where I chose to go today.  I chose to look at what I have rather than what I don’t have.  I choose to see what I have accomplished rather than what I “feel” today.  I choose to be thankful rather than fearful.  I am changing my thinking and so changing my mind which in turn will alter my brain.  This retraining will lead to a new life.

WHICH ONE DO YOU IDENTIFY WITH?
Two jokes:
A boss sends man to lunch and to get newspaper.  Man is late.  Boss says to secty.  I sent the wrong man to get that newspaper.  I should have known.  Another half hour passes and the man finally comes in.  “Boss, I ran into Mr. Brown while I was at lunch and started talking to him.  Before I left I got him to sign back up with us and he agreed to a $7 million contract.”  The boss sighs and looks at the secretary and says, “See, I told you he would forget the newspaper.”

A wife has a very critical husband.  No matter how she cooks his eggs he complains.  If she poaches his eggs he says he wanted scrambled.  If she scrambled his eggs he says he wanted poached.  One morning she frets and frets about what she can do to get it right.  Eureka!  She has a perfect idea.  She scrambles one egg and poaches the other.  So thrilled with her idea – she eagerly serves her husband expecting a well deserved praise.  He throws his fork down and complains, “Woman, you scrambled the wrong egg!”

When I heard these jokes, I immediately identified with the person being criticized.  It touched that dark, chastised place in my heart.  I felt that crest-fallen, shamed child.  But I was struck because the person who told those jokes focused on the “wrong thinking” of the critical one.

My life causes me to focus on the shame dumped on the “doer” in each case.  I chose to re-focus on the “wrong thinking” of the critical one.  “OMG how sad – you have missed the whole point!  You are losing out on life.”  When I refocus I can dismiss that critical one as a sad and lonely soul not worthy of time, attention, energy. 

When I first heard these jokes, I could not laugh.  They touched that place of shame.  Only be refocusing can I laugh and dismiss those folks as wrong thinking.  Only by dismissing them can I rise above.

Sorry for the ramble.  Working out, working through.  Overcoming.  Healing.  Thanks for your compassion and encouragement.

Gaining Strength

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #51 on: April 15, 2008, 12:40:57 PM »
LilyCat

I had been thinking about how I had offended him (not really, it was the other way around) ... and those thoughts lead me to the question, What could I have done that was so awful, how could I have so offended my parents as a little child, that they ignored me and neglected me and abused me and did anything but nurture and affirm me?

This is what I got out of those two jokes.  My perspective has always been skewed. I wondered what I did  when in your own words the correct perspective is it was not me but them.

The answer, of course, is that I could have done nothing. All this (the neglect, the abuse) was set in place and going on long before I even reached the age of 3 or 4. The deal was well cemented by then.
I was a child. There was nothing I could have done as a little child that would have offended them, or justified any of their behavior.
In an instant it was so clear that it was them, not me.


My father's abuse was always the most visible and certainly not to be underestimated, but it was my mother's lack of caring that did by far the most damage. It was a real one-two punch.

This is my story – exactly!!!!!

no matter what, put God first in your life. As it says in Proverbs, "Lean not to thine own understanding, but in all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He will make straight thy paths."

Thank you.

The great story of humankind, and of God's endless love and mercy and understanding, is that transformation and healing are always possible. People sometimes misunderstand, I think, and believe that these things are just to be given to us. Not so. It is our job and indeed our purpose and even our joy, to do the work we need to do to become complete and whole human beings. We must. But God will always be there to guide us in it, and to make straight our pathway ... even if it takes 25 years (and it will be more) of therapy, or a lifetime.

No comment needed.

God bless you, and may you always walk in the light of God's peace and understanding. God's light is on you, and on all of us.

Iphi

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #52 on: April 15, 2008, 12:50:27 PM »
(((((Gaining Strength))))  Once again I am blown away by your powerful and inspiring work on shame and overcoming shame.  What particularly blows me away is that as you felt the shutting down/paralysis happening last night and found yourself unable to move toward solutions you had been using - you were aware the whole entire time.  You were aware it was happening, aware of your solutions, aware of the inability to reach toward them.  To me, that is a tremendous difference - between unaware and aware.  It is a powerful difference.  Just to be aware, conscious, observing, focusing.  Your consciousness was not swept completely away into its role of shamed one - you had a detached awareness watching the experience. 

(((((GS))))) thank you for sharing this with us, with me. 
Character, which has nothing to do with intellect or skill, can evolve only by increasing our capacity to love, and to become lovable. - Joan Grant

ann3

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #53 on: April 15, 2008, 12:59:52 PM »
Lily & GS,

What fantastic work!!  So inspiring.  Thank you for sharing.

Lily, welcome to the board.  Hope you will keep posting.  You have amazing insight into your self.I admire your courage & your work.  I really relate to the dual nature of your parents:  destructive to their child, but hearts of gold.  How did your father change?

GS,
Wowser!  
 At 8 I remember thinking to myself - "I'm falling into depression - no, it's not depression, what is it?  It's that shame again To complete the circle in this understanding – I recognize this shutting down. 
so good you recognized this.  You're becoming conscious of your patterns.  Fabulous

(I never knew this “railing” was abusive because it was done in a manner of “discipline” and it was not “loud” or in “anger” but was very, very controlling. I thought it was love – that is the severe damagethis controlling, demanding attitude was what I experienced as love.)   [/color]
 
I thought it was love   ME TOO   

I also had thought this was love, but my Therapist told me/showed me that this was my parent's way to control me.  So among all the damage that this type of parental control does is that we, as both children & adults, think that control is love and love is control.  I think brainwashing kids into thinking love is control and vice verse is perhaps the worst, biggest and deepest injury that they caused us, even if our parents were unaware of the damage that they did to us via harsh control.

I don’t believe these fears are really attached to this post.  I believe they are attached to my childhood experiences.  I am severing my ties to those experiences.  I am finding my way out.    
Again, you are conscious of your patterns, conscious of how your mind works, connecting your present daily life to past emotions and past memories.  Fantastic

GS, I'm very happy for you.  Sounds like you are going to have a new life very soon, if not now.

Love to you both,
ann

« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 01:17:30 PM by ann3 »

Gaining Strength

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #54 on: April 15, 2008, 01:58:11 PM »
We need to talk, soon.... waiting for your next installment.

Is this what you were referring to?

Withdrawal is how I've always self-soothed... reading the paper, munching, all those repetitive comfort habits. I didn't completely retreat; I wasn't completely knocked sideways by dealing with other people's problems - or "frozen out", as you call it.

And this morning, I wake up feeling like I'm different. Somehow. Someway...   like something scratchy is GONE; not in my way anymore


OMG Phoenix Rising - What a victory!!!

How did you get there?  Was it something you did or was it something that happened AFTER all the other work laid the ground?  That is what I am aiming for.  So glad you are there!!! So glad you shared!!! As if you have paved the way!!! I am so, so close.  So close I can taste it.  so close, it feels as though I could type or post my way there - but then some of my typing or posting is a self-soothing thing - not all but some of it.  So close, so close.

LilyCat

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #55 on: April 15, 2008, 02:25:32 PM »
GS and Ann,

Thank you for the welcome.

GS, I told you you and I are very similar! I haven't had time to read the whole thread, but from what I've seen and the encouragement to you I've read from others (briefly), you're doing a great job. Kudos!! I will try to get caught up as the week progresses.  (Liked the jokes, and feel great sympathy for you that you at first identified with the criticized person.)

Ann, my dad changed because my mom died. After one crisis, one night when I thought he actually might cross that line and become physically violent and kill me (he'd never been physically abusive), plus a few months when I had no contact, gradually our relationship changed. In our confrontation that night I finally spewed out that I'd never thought he loved me (both my parents did love me, it just didn't feel that way, ever, and they certainly missed doing a lot of things that would back that up, but they did do other things, such as teach me to be responsible, give me consistency, etc.) I think it must have hurt him very deeply; that was the first movement of change i saw in him. Things changed very slowly ... but really not so much until my mom died in a car accident. I think it just brought him to his knees and between that and my brother's accident and death 20 years later (6 mos before my mom), he just had the stuffing knocked out of him. Once left on his own, his true sweetness and humanity came to the fore. They'd always been there ... I don't know why he couldn't let them out at home before then. Control, I guess, and probably some kind of fear. Instead of being the brute he appeared, I think he was actually a very frightened man. Whatever, he became known in his town as the sweetest little old man, which he truly was. ...I think my mother also very much controlled my relationship with my dad, and quite probably steered it in the wrong direction and/or mislead me. When she died, her absence seemed to help a more direct connection. Sad, isn't it? But when i say they were good people, one of the reasons is that for 20 years they selflessly and unerringly devoted themselves to the care of my paraplegic, incapacitated brother (although he liived a nursing home). What they did for him is beyond the measure you can imagine. I don't know how you do that when you "lose" a child, but they did. They are genuine heroes, believe me. And one day not too long before my brother died, I realized that if they'd done that for him, they would have done the same for me, and that is when I finally knew and understood that they really did love me ... they just frequently didn't express it very well. Ramble, ramble, ramble....!   

I wanted to add, also, that the one area where I know God positively, absolutely directed me was in finding my therapist. He is not only a great, great therapist, but he understood the issues so well, and the issue of entitlement specifically, that he personally extended himself to me financially in an extrardinary way (not for free, at all, but let's just say most of it has been deferred... and will be paid back, for sure.  I needed to get to a place where I could do that).

I found this article last year, which I thought was very helpful; perhaps you will as well. Enttitlement to feelings is the core of how my therapist works, but I've never seen it written about or discussed anywhere else but in this article. (Which is not to say the material isn't out there; I just haven't searched for it ad nauseum.)

http://bapfelbaumphd.com/Entitlement_to_Feelings.html

Hope you enjoy.

LilyCat

axa

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #56 on: April 15, 2008, 06:02:18 PM »
GS

Just a quick acknowledgement of your wonderful post.  I have struggled most of my life with getting out of bed, not wanting to face the day, if at all possible staying asleep so that I could not feel.  As a teenager I could sleep for 24 hours solid, I would wake and will myself back to sleep.  I have used my bed as the only safe place for a very long time.  I will address your posts later but wanted to thank you for all of this..... and no I did not go to the gym, sadly, and do not feel the better for it.  My association with the gym, or should I say leaving the gym is of happiness, at the moment I choose shame over happiness.

hugs,

axa

Ami

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #57 on: April 15, 2008, 06:38:09 PM »
Just checking in, GS ,and sending you  thoughts of peace and joy.    Love    Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Gaining Strength

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #58 on: April 15, 2008, 10:13:41 PM »
What a day!  Difficult but good.  yesterday I accomplished things externally, today, internally.  Both necessary and both valuable.

Leah

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Re: More work on shame
« Reply #59 on: April 17, 2008, 07:16:58 PM »

GS,

I am new here to the board; I saw your posting just now and it really touched me. So, while I registered I read just a littlie of your story on the other venue.

I so hear and understand your story, and I just wanted to tell you that anything, most especially healing, is possible. The key is to have the immense amount of courage it takes to let yourself fully feel your feelings -- of shame, of anger, of whatever. It can be a long, long journey to get there, but you and anyone can do it. It is the greatest gift you can give to yourself.

The power to heal lies not in substituting other behaviors, or running away from our feelings or denying them; or in over-analyzing our families and significant others. Rather, it lies in giving ourselves permission to go to those dark places. You can only discover the light by walking, sometimes fearlessly, sometimes most fearfully, into the dark. Just make sure you walk with someone fully able to grasp your hand firmly while you do so -- i.e., a really good therapist.

How do I know? I know all about voicelessness. I have battled it all my life; I never heard it called such until I stumbled onto Dr. Goodman's site, while trying to heal from an unfathomable hurt someone had cast upon me.

This is not the moment to tell you my story, so I'll just tell you that my therapist, who is as practical and reliable and expert as they come, tells me that my family background puts me at the far end of the bell curve ... nearly off the charts. I have worked my whole adult life -- some 25 years -- to overcome the abuse and neglect and lack of caring, and lack of empathy. (Along with some other bad, bad things that happened.) It has been a long journey, and sometimes in the last few years it has felt not a little embarrassing to know that I have been in therapy this long -- yet I know with all that is in me that it has been necessary, and that I have wasted very little time. However my therapist said "jump", I asked how high -- and did my best to reach that height.

It took me a long time to understand my mother's neglect; in the early years of my group therapy, my fellow members said my life was just like a real-life Cinderella -- one of the things that I identified with in your post. It took me quite a few years to measure the hole that my mother left me in -- but I did, centimeter by centimeter, until I knew, and felt, the full and exact dimensions of that hole. I know exactly how wide and how deep and how long it is; and if you can understand this, I consciously carry those dimensions, and that image around with me, so I never forget ... but I also worked very hard to climb out of it, and I have. But the remembrance is important not for clinging's sake, but so that I always know why it is I need to be patient and kind with myself, and a good parent to myself.

My father's abuse was always the most visible and certainly not to be underestimated, but it was my mother's lack of caring that did by far the most damage. It was a real one-two punch.

Like everyone else here (I guess?) I never developed a voice, except through music (classical) and writing and poetry and other forms of artistic expression. Much of my dad's abuse involved tyrannical storms of verbal abuse in which I was not allowed to say a word; to speak up or defend myself before he was ready would have been suicide in  my household. Finally, when his verbal reign of terror was over, he would say "Say!" and then I was magically supposed to come up with the perfect explanation for my "crime" (I never did much wrong -- I was too afraid to). Of course, by that time he had completely ground me into nothing, so aside from the fact that there was no perfect answer (except that I was a child), even if there had been, I wouldn't have been able to give it. I was completely shut down.

This, of course, was the obvious hammer that pounded me into silence, in addition to the very real factors that Dr. Goodman talks about -- all so very, very true for me. All my life I wondered why I never could answer questions about what I wanted, or why I seem to have so little conversation within me (except for artistic things) ... when I found Dr Goodman's article on Little Voices, it was the overlay I needed to understand at the next level. It was wonderful.

And here's where I begin to get to my point: underneath all those layers, and all those feelings, and all the many years of earnest work I did in therapy, I felt a deep shame. Shame because of the neglect and abuse -- why wasn't I good enough to be cared for? -- shame because of the neglectful (literally messy) way my family lived, and many other external factors. I had a brother who was injured in a horrible accident and left highly brained damaged and incapacitated; I even felt deep shame when out in public with him, as if there were something wrong with me/us for having a brother in that condition. (And I guess the case could be made that there was, given the circumstances of his accident.) Being ashamed of him, of course, made me feel even more ashamed. (I did feel great compassion and love and all what you might expect, but the shame was there.)

...on some distant level I felt the shame and knew about it, but it was so deep and pervasive and troubling that it remained in the background for all those years.

Then finally, for whatever reason, I got in touch with it some time last year. I had let myself travel the road to my complete emptiness, and allowed myself to feel that emptiness (and boy, was it/is it empty). It is a hard, hard, HARD thing to do, and very scary. But I'm glad I did, even if it's painful and certainly not resolved yet.

Somehow in that process is where my consciousness of shame arose. Here, this thing at the core of my being that had been at the foundation of my soul for as long as I have been alive, was alive and breathing and letting itself be made known. I allowed myself to admit how shameful I felt, and I named it in group the next time I went.

And you know what? As soon as I named it, it went away. It was that fast. I no longer feel it. All I had to do was acknowledge it, name a few reasons why, and name it for myself. Poof! Gone.

I'm sure that was only possible because of all the previous work, but boy, what a joy to have it gone and how freeingI I no longer feel shame.

A great deal of what I have gotten in touch with this past year, especially the past few months, arose from this very, very hurtful thing that someone did to me (long story); actually, he did it twice. After the first time, in the midst of feeling my feelings about what he'd done, and in that awful state of confusion, the word "offend" came flashing into my head. It happened to be Lent (last year). I had been thinking about how I had offended him (not really, it was the other way around) ... and those thoughts lead me to the question, What could I have done that was so awful, how could I have so offended my parents as a little child, that they ignored me and neglected me and abused me and did anything but nurture and affirm me?

The answer, of course, is that I could have done nothing. All this (the neglect, the abuse) was set in place and going on long before I even reached the age of 3 or 4. The deal was well cemented by then.

I was a child. There was nothing I could have done as a little child that would have offended them, or justified any of their behavior.

In an instant it was so clear that it was them, not me. I was just a little, innocent, helpless, vulnerable child. I could have done nothing. I needed them, and they chose not to understand and support that normal childhood need, but to foist their own values and needs upon me. I was to exist for them, not for myself.

It was so incredibly freeing to realize that. Two very important guideposts: understanding finally that I had committed no offense; there was nothing in me that brought this on; and naming the shame.

All that said, I want you to know that people are complex. My parents were actually two of the best people on earth. Yes, they were very freaky to me (the only word that came to mind just now), but I know, because I saw it, that they had hearts of gold and were truly good people. Sometimes I have had a glimpse of how empty my mother must have been, to neglect me so and use her own child to fill her needs; and although I'll never know what, I know that there was something within my dad that caused him to rage at me so, and bully me. But eventually we became very close; the man I once wished dead became, for the last 10 years of his life, my best friend and one of the greatest joys of my life. He changed, we both changed.

So, that is my message for you: hope and encouragement. I think, from quickly reading your post, that you are a Christian; or at least very spiritual. so here is my very best bit of encouragement: no matter what, put God first in your life. As it says in Proverbs, "Lean not to thine own understanding, but in all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He will make straight thy paths." (As best as I can remember the exact words.)

I think the source of my strength and healing and endurance is that I love God; God is always first in my heart. My one great gift in this life is that I was born loving God in my heart; I never had to "come" to God; God was always there. If I have one talent, it is submitting myself to God each and every second; always, eternally putting myself before God with every breath. It is not so much that I have relied on God as a source of strength; most times, I confess, I haven't felt so much coming back or that my prayers were answered (oh, if you only knew!), but I've loved God anyway; my "getting" things is not the point (yet at the same time I have a keen awareness of God's presence in my life, even if I don't know exactly how or where or what it is; I think it is in just the very act of loving).

The great story of humankind, and of God's endless love and mercy and understanding, is that transformation and healing are always possible. People sometimes misunderstand, I think, and believe that these things are just to be given to us. Not so. It is our job and indeed our purpose and even our joy, to do the work we need to do to become complete and whole human beings. We must. But God will always be there to guide us in it, and to make straight our pathway ... even if it takes 25 years (and it will be more) of therapy, or a lifetime.

God bless you, and may you always walk in the light of God's peace and understanding. God's light is on you, and on all of us.



God Bless you   ((((( LilyCat)))))
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO