Using sons against each other

[nogadge]

        In response to the small claims action against my VAN ex for having damaged the door on my car when he kicked it,  He has enlisted our eldest son to say that our youngest son did the deed.  He sent me a registered letter stating that our eldest would testify in court that our youngest did the damage, and our younest son has said he would tell the court he certainly did not.  My ex is encouraging out eldest to commit purgery in giving false testimony and to lie about his younger brother.  I am appalled with the fact that he is so willing to encourage/expect/instigate this type of dynamics between our children and especially with the trouble this means for our eldest in the eyes of the court.
 I do understand justy how this will look to the courts when it comes to parental rights and how irresponsbible/damaging this type of action is to our children.
 :evil:NOGADGE

[Ami]

Dear nogadge,
 That is  a really, really bad  thing to do to your sons. N's will go to incredible lengths, which should not surprise me, but do.I am sorry that you have to endure this.             Love    Ami

[teartracks]

Dear Nodage,


So your ex is an N?  It is very common behavior for an N to engage the unwary in their plots to cheat.  Part of the maneuver is to use another to be the capital C in the cheat game.

Do you have time and resources to see a T (perhaps with the boys), or a person of high morals to run this by who could help you and the boys and intervene before they are dragged into this publicly.  I accept that my proposal is a little awkward, but I sure am concerned about how his plan will affect the boys.

Setting precidents with your boys like this could easily set a destructive pattern in their life. 
Hope I'm not speaking out of turn.

tt

 

[Gaining Strength]

Dear nogadge - as the mother of a little boy my heart bleeds for your predicament.  As the sister to two brothers who were 18 months apart and treated very differently, I feel for your two boys.

My encouragement to you is to stand up for the truth.  It has value and both of your boys will benefit from seeing their mother stand op to the truth and not buckling to the demands of an abusive N bully.  Even your son who has agreed to the lie will benefit for having a mother who has courage.  Bullies are intimidating but they are cowards and unconsciously or subconsciously children take it all in.

You are a person of courage and you know the truth.

Love and courage to you - Gaining Strength

[nogadge]

Ami,
  God has blessed me thru my life...when I was in need, I found a place here.  thank you,
Nogadge

[nogadge]

GS,
My eldest has just turned 18, and the youngest is 14.  Unfortunately, I regret having taught them the lesson in life of giving and doing for the one you loves when you have given your love unconditionally to another.  My children know who I am, and that I am the same today as I was yesterday and will be with them tomorrow, for them.  Right is right, wrong is wrong.  Doesn't matter if it's legal, if it's morally wrong, you don't do it.   And this is legally, morally and ethically wrong.    I am sorry for them that this is only one of the bitter lesson their father is going to teach them.
tt,
you are not out of place, our minds ran the same way.  I have enlisted the wonderful mentor who has been there for both my boys (thru the church) for the past 5 years.  When I gave him the run down, he will help address this, adamantly agreeing that we can not allow this to happen to our boys.  He said he will not let My Michael do this against his brother Jason.
Thank you so much, Nogadge

[gjazz]

Nogadge:  My NF did this too.  He enlisted my brothers in his lies (legal and non) and set them against each other all the time.  To this day, their relationships are strained.  In addition he got involved in their marriages and set the wives against each other and in cases against their husbands.  Once, he called me in to a meeting with his lawyers before a round of depositions and informed me what I would be saying.  I was in my late twenties at the time and told him I'd tell the exact truth and nothing but, which wouldn't have helped his case at all, in fact would have helped his enemy du jour.  I was never deposed.  I hope your boys have the ability to stand up against their NF and of course knowing they have your backing will help.  That you'll stand with them for telling the truth.  I feel for you, I really do.  What your husband is doing is so destructive, and your eldest son is an adult--perjury has consequences.  Hang tough.

[nogadge]

Hey gjazz,
thanks, I know perjury has consequences, legally.  I hope my sons mentor can reach him to make him aware of the truth behind his action far beyond the legal one....The damage and hurt doing this will cause to his younger brother if he still chooses to lie on him.
I just want to slap some sense into my ex...a pointless act.
On the flip side, my boys know I will always love them, no matter what.  But, I will not support them in endeavors of this type, they are so wrong on so many levels, and yes they do have some understandings of this.  I am just hoping this is something my ex has fabricated to try and intimidate me in to dropping it.  I am praying my eldest is really not a party to this and hope he would never seriously consider doing this to his brother.  I am going to have faith in my son, until I find out different.  It is still very unsettling.
Nogadge

[Leah]

Hi Nogadge,

Sadly, both parents would engage and offset their children, one against the other, for various purposes, personal pleasure or gain.

Sincerest empathy, with thoughts and prayers filled with strength and courage.

So very glad to know that you have a wonderful mentor, as a means of support network.

Leah x

[nogadge]

  Leah,
If, it is in deed the case, the there is no way to offset...I will simply drop my case to prevent the pain and hurt to my youngest.  I will not allow him to be hurt further by his brother in this way.  Nor will I allow Michael (my eldest) to make this type of mistake.  It is not worth winning to put either one of them thru this if that's what it comes to.  I can not force my eldest to do the right thing, he needs to be able to make that choice on his own, and hopefully he will.  Having laid a good foundation with him when he was growing up, I will trust and have faith that will prevail in this.
And YES, I am so very glad that there is someone I can call that means enough to the children for them to listen to,especially when it comes to opposing his fathers wishes because of what it really means for him to follow what his father wants him to do
Nogadge.

[Gaining Strength]

nogadge, perhaps you can talk with the boys' mentor about your thoughts of protecting the boys by not following through on the suit.  This may sound odd, but from here (that means knowing only what you have posted so very limited information) it looks as if backing down from the N bully rather than doing what is right would be more damaging that standing up for what is right. 

You are definitely in a delimna! And I think you are definitely doing the right thing by considering the effect on the boys.  But it is knowing what is best for them in the long run that is most difficult.  What ever you decide - I am behind you 100% and I encourage you not to 2nd guess yourself.  You will make the best decision that you possibly can.

That said, I still think that it is important not to model backing down to a bully.  I do know that your situation is more complicated than I have made it but those my my 2 cents worth.  What ever you decide - I'm behind you. 

Yours,
Gaining strength

[gjazz]

Your boys are at an age where most kids want to please their parents, want their father's approbation.  It's so awful that your ex is using this to make them act against their own best interests.  Even if they make a mistake now, it's inevitable that one day, they will see your ex's actions as destructive toward them.  I'm sorry you are going through this.

[nogadge]

Hey GS & gjazzz
Your words echo my thoughts and feeling.  If I do drop, it not because I gave into my ex, but will come with the harsh reality between my eldest and myself, because by the time this comes to a head, he will be fully aware of the ramifications, and that I do this more to spare his brother at that point, and he will know how disappointed I am with jis choice for doing what he knows is the wrong thing to do.
On the other hand, if the youngest is sufficiently offened, he may feel the need to stand up for himself.  In which case I will honor that.
And yes, it does gall me to have to pull back to this, if I drop.  Let's see if we can ultimately pull the menucia out and all who need be able to gain strength from within to rise above the fathers actions.  I will be very disappointed in my eldest, but we will work thru.
They do see the truths to their fathers actions, but their need of him is very strong and runs deep.  They are just boys, it's to be expected.  And me, being the one who has been there all along, gladly take the brunt.
Nogadge.

[Gaining Strength]

my thoughts and prayers are with you nogadge.  You will make the best decision.  I believe in you.

(I love your name nogadge, please tell me what it means.)

[nogadge]

 
Hey GS,
To my best knowledge, it used by the Gypsys'.  It meaning is basically "not family, let no outsiders in."  I internalized it to represent myself with regards to how I choose to look with "eyes wide shut", no more.   I gave a brief note on this when I responded to the question re: choosing of  names on another thread.
Thanks for asking, Nogadge.