Author Topic: Manipulation  (Read 4283 times)

teartracks

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Re: Manipulation
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2008, 02:15:48 PM »


Hi everyione,

Link for this article:   http://fitfare.net/2007/05/25/dealing-with-manipulative-people/

Last month, I wrote about Dealing with Toxic People. Since then, I have had a request to tackle an equally important type of person that affects the lives of everyone: manipulators.

Who are they?
Manipulators are not necessarily as easy to point out in your life as toxic people. The reason being is that not all manipulators are toxic. For example, there are some people who know how to use their powers of charm and charisma to haggle a great price at your local flea market. In a sense, they are manipulating the situation, playing on weaknesses, and harnessing their talents, to get something for themselves. Everyone tends to end up happy usually, and no one gets upset. In these cases, while the person may be manipulating the situation to their advantage, it is not necessarily in a way that negatively affects others.

However, people who manipulate others are, in fact, toxic to your health and they can be at times difficult to spot. I have narrowed down the most common traits you would find in those that manipulate you or others below.

The Phony
Nothing about this individual is true in nature. They smile to your face, laugh at your jokes, agree with your ideas, and appear to be extremely chummy with you. Meanwhile, they are laughing at you, talking about you, and betraying you at every turn to anyone and everyone else if you have unknowingly crossed them. They instigate problems with you and others, only to leave you wondering how the problems began in the first place. This character also parades themselves touting their high morals and principles, devotion to their religion, or truth in their words. They may also try to appear wealthier than they may be, or happier with their lives than anyone else.

The truth about the phony is that they are anything but what they say they are to you. Never take their word for it, see it in their action and that is where the truth will be.

The Sweet Talker(Controller)
This person knows how to talk their way into anything. Seemingly innocent in nature, they tend to take the role of ‘nice’ person often. They are cordial, friendly, and polite and leave a positive impression upon you initially. These people tend to be difficult to figure since they are not necessarily as obviously fake as the phony.

This individual is the one that knows how to influence everyone into making a choice that is favorable to the sweet talker. He or she may be able to sway a group to eat at her choice restaurant or see his choice movie. This extends beyond being a decision maker, but also playing a leading role in any situation. These people cannot share the spotlight or the power and feel threatened when anyone in any situation (work, family, group of friends) starts to get noticed. They then sweet talk their way into being sure that no one takes away their role as leader or decision maker.

The Deceiver
Those that use deception at will to gain control or power are the deceivers. A clear way to notice a deceiver is when you catch them in their own web of lies. This, however, can be very difficult to do because they are such pro’s at deceiving they are able to cover up any suspicion by casting doubt on you yourself.

Things they may say to try and fuddle you can be: “I didn’t say that, I said….” or “Actually, I told you that this is what happened, don’t you remember?” or “Oh yeah, but then this happened and then that…”

They are quite good at covering their tracks and it proves to be difficult to nail them unless you have another person to verify and fact check.

The Distorter
These people live in their own fantasy world. They make up anything to prove their point, whether its true or not, and they believe it to boot! It is strange to imagine what goes on in their heads, but ultimately its one the of the hardest types of people to reason with. In fact, these are the people that create wild stories to give the impression that they know everything about everything.

The reason why a distorter can be dangerous is that if the person they are talking to does not realize they are speaking from a twisted sort of reality, then every word they say can be held as truth. Rumors start from these type of people, and they spread quickly.

The best way to handle this type of person is to simply take anything they say as a grain of salt.

The Victim
I saved the victim for last because I believe these are the worst type of manipulators. I say they are the worst because they will do anything in their power to get everyone to believe they were wronged. They never take any responsibility for any problems they may be involved in and always look to blame someone else. They have no respect for others, but demand respect for themselves. When you point out their inconsistencies, they accuse you of being just like everyone else and continue to bemoan their neverending sorrows.

If they have ever felt unhappy with someone, they call and speak to everyone about it and do their best to turn whoever they are speaking to against the person they have angst against. If possible, it is best to cut all ties to the victim or distance as much as you can. Close ties with this drama queen type will only increase stress in your life.

Recognizing the traits is the first step
A good manipulator is a combination of any of these above. It’s rare to find just a phony, or just a victim. Typically, a good manipulator has all of their traits rolled into one. Pay close attention to people you suspect are manipulating you. You may begin to see patterns and can distinguish how their personality ties in with the above mention qualities.

Once you have recognized what you are up against, you have a few ways to handle it.

1. Call them out. Let it be known that you see their behavior and will no longer succumb to it. This by far is the most difficult way to approach it. Once you have revealed their true nature to them, they will do anything and everything in their power to guilt you, upset you, turn everyone against you, and try to make your life miserable. Calling them out will threaten the manipulator and only make them come at you stronger and harder.

I would only recommend calling one out when they have been tormenting you for a long period and you are ready to let go and move on. This method cannot work in an office setting with your boss where you need to continue working in the same place. Appropriate times to do this can be when you are ending a relationship or friendship. Be sure though to expect a harsh backlash to this method. The manipulator will make you feel so guilty or miserable for saying anything and if you cannot handle this, then move on to other options.

2. Ignore them. It is not easy at first, but if you try to ignore the attempts to make you feel guilty, or control you, they may end up just leaving you alone after a while since its too much work for them to even try their tactics on you. Pretty soon they will move on to someone who is easier to lead.

3. Distance yourself. This is easier said that done of course. If the person manipulating you is your spouse or parent, picking up and moving away might not be an option. However, those that are able to distance can simply cut back on spending time with this person.


Who are they?
Manipulators are not necessarily as easy to point out in your life as toxic people. The reason being is that not all manipulators are toxic. For example, there are some people who know how to use their powers of charm and charisma to haggle a great price at your local flea market. In a sense, they are manipulating the situation, playing on weaknesses, and harnessing their talents, to get something for themselves. Everyone tends to end up happy usually, and no one gets upset. In these cases, while the person may be manipulating the situation to their advantage, it is not necessarily in a way that negatively affects others.


I personally do not agree with the blogger that these types are non toxic.  I believe that if haggling, as in the flea market scenario, ends up in a win/lose, then one of the people has been manipulated in a toxic fashion.  Greed under the guise of good natured haggling is still greed.  I'm aware that flea marketers, car salesmen, and other types set the scene to accommodate haggling.  That's not what I'm talking about.  I'm talking about the person whose goal is to always make sure that the other person loses.  Get my drift?

tt

« Last Edit: April 29, 2008, 02:27:21 PM by teartracks »

Gabben

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Re: Manipulation
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2008, 04:30:54 PM »
All I can say is that God must have known that you are strong enough to overcome all these challenges, Lise, by His grace, and to come out the other side with a wisdom and compassion that'll never fail. That's my hope.

Love,
Carolyn

Dear Carolyn,

Thanks for your hope, at least someone has some hope for me today. I do not feel hopeful. It hurts today, it just hurts. I awoke with aching pain at all that I lost. The most painful thought is knowing that Nsaint feeds off of the joy of her sadistic revenge....she really deep down loves knowing that I hurt because of her.

The thing is that now that I have completely disappeared from her range I think that she will have to find a new target to dump her envy and aggression on. Now that I am out of sight I bet her work does not seem as fullfilling as it was when it was in my hands...she reminds me of a toddler who wants a toy only because another plays with it. She will see someone playing with another toy want it, grab it and then move on from it when she sees another toy that looks better. Is it wrong for me to want her to get canned? Is wrong for me to want her to lose her license? I think that I am no better than her if I am looking to take pleasure in her fall that will eventually come, it will.

I have never wanted vindication so much, to be free from her accusations and lies....want, want, want. Am I a toddler? I am wondering if God is trying to tell me something. Some people never get vindication. So, perhaps God wants me to look for my truth in His eyes and His eyes alone. I can do that but today I am actually angry with God. This is more than I could take.

My parish, my reputation, my beloved ministry work. These were the things in life that mattered to me most...she took them. Yesterday I felt that I could move on, today I feel stuck in the anger and pain. Today is a dark day....will the light ever shine on this situation? I know that I am good but it hurts to be so rejected.

I am lamenting over my losses...this is my psalm song :(

Lise, in need of hugs.

darren

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Re: Manipulation
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2008, 04:50:25 PM »
Quote

Lise, in need of hugs.


{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUG}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Gabben

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Re: Manipulation
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2008, 04:56:50 PM »
Carolyn,

Lately I have been turning to the old testament for comfort, David's psalms:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me? Why art Thou so far from helping me, from the words of my groaning? O my God, I cry by day, but Thou dost not answer; and by night, but find no rest.

Yet Thou art holy, enthroned on the praises of Israel. In thee our fathers trusted they trusted, and Thou didst deliver them. To Thee they cried, and were saved; in Thee they trusted, and were not disappointed.

But I am a worm, and no man; scorned by men, and despised by the people. All who see me mock at me, they make mouths at me, they wag their heads; "He committed his cause to The Lord; let him deliver him, let him rescue him, for he delights in him!"


Many bulls encompass me, strong bulls of Bashan surround me; they open wide their mouths at me, like a ravening and roaring lion. I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint; my heart is like wax, it is melted within my breast; my strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue cleaves to my jaws; thou dost lay me in the dust of death. Yea, dogs are round about me; a company of evildoers encircle me; they have pierced my hands and feet - I can count all my bones--they stare and gloat over me; they divide my garments among them, and for my raiment they cast lots.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does that not mirror my song :lol:

Or the short version, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" of Psalm 22:2

The thing is that as Christ was dying on the cross, suffering, He called out "Father forgive them for they do not know what they do." There has not been a day that has gone by that I have not called that out too.

Some days forgiveness reigns in my heart -- somedays I am human, like today, but at least I am not a P or an N :D

« Last Edit: April 29, 2008, 05:01:45 PM by Gabben »

Gabben

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Re: Manipulation
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2008, 05:05:17 PM »
Quote

Lise, in need of hugs.


{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUG}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}


That was a good warm hug :D :D :D :D :D THANKS!!

seasons

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Re: Manipulation
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2008, 05:10:56 PM »
Lise, hope tomorrow is a better day for you. ((Hugs)) seasons
"Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak Kindly. Leave the Rest to God."
Maya Angelou

Certain Hope

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Re: Manipulation
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2008, 08:12:01 PM »
All I can say is that God must have known that you are strong enough to overcome all these challenges, Lise, by His grace, and to come out the other side with a wisdom and compassion that'll never fail. That's my hope.

Love,
Carolyn

Dear Carolyn,

Thanks for your hope, at least someone has some hope for me today. I do not feel hopeful. It hurts today, it just hurts. I awoke with aching pain at all that I lost. The most painful thought is knowing that Nsaint feeds off of the joy of her sadistic revenge....she really deep down loves knowing that I hurt because of her.

The thing is that now that I have completely disappeared from her range I think that she will have to find a new target to dump her envy and aggression on. Now that I am out of sight I bet her work does not seem as fullfilling as it was when it was in my hands...she reminds me of a toddler who wants a toy only because another plays with it. She will see someone playing with another toy want it, grab it and then move on from it when she sees another toy that looks better. Is it wrong for me to want her to get canned? Is wrong for me to want her to lose her license? I think that I am no better than her if I am looking to take pleasure in her fall that will eventually come, it will.

I have never wanted vindication so much, to be free from her accusations and lies....want, want, want. Am I a toddler? I am wondering if God is trying to tell me something. Some people never get vindication. So, perhaps God wants me to look for my truth in His eyes and His eyes alone. I can do that but today I am actually angry with God. This is more than I could take.

My parish, my reputation, my beloved ministry work. These were the things in life that mattered to me most...she took them. Yesterday I felt that I could move on, today I feel stuck in the anger and pain. Today is a dark day....will the light ever shine on this situation? I know that I am good but it hurts to be so rejected.

I am lamenting over my losses...this is my psalm song :(

Lise, in need of hugs.

(((((((((((((((((((((((Lise)))))))))))))))))))))))  I just now saw this. 

I'm so sorry you woke up with all that weighing down on you. I know it hurts. Sometimes I feel it myself, about various situations/people.... and it's almost like falling into a pit filled with.... well..... poo. A Poo Pit.... yeah, that's it.

I hope you know that it's okay to be angry with God, Lise. He can take it. Sometimes I get stuck in wondering why the wicked do prosper... but then I remember where I was - and who I was - and all that's left is gratitude for Him not leaving me there.
Anyhow, I do not believe that He's doing these things to you in order to teach you some lesson.  God is  not the one who steals, robs, and destroys.  So just consider the source and don't give that nasty old coot the pleasure of seeing you down in the dumps. How's that for a pep talk? Corny, yeah... but that's how I have to talk to myself when I get like that, Lise.
The more I practice just standing on Jesus, the shorter the duration of my own little "precious moments"  :P  Biggest help I know is remembering back to all the times before when the Lord lifted me up out of that pit... and I know He'll do it again, never ever giving up on me... or on you.

Love,
Carolyn

teartracks

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Re: Manipulation
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2008, 09:39:19 PM »




Hi Lise,

I join the others in saying I'm sorry that you've been hurting so badly today.  

You haven't indicated that it was, but I hope I didn't overload your thread with too much information on manipulation.  I know that sensory overload can happen so easily when it has to do with our most vulnerable selves.  Even after having passed through what I think has to be my worst years, feeling manipulated just undoes me.  Still!  I understand your feelings so well.    I thought about sharing a shake down in my own church setting where I feel that I am on to a hidden agenda of a person I will probably end up thinking of as Nsaint, to coin your term.  I don't like the feeling of having to watch out for her and be diligent in assessing her behavior, but that is exactly where I am now.  I so understand how you are feeling.  I have purposed to keep my cool and be an observer of my antagonist's behavior.  Honestly, in a way, I find it amusing.  A couple years ago, it might have been enough to drive me into the church underground.  Not now!  Whew! some of these protracted battles get wearisome don't they?

Kindest regards,

tt


Certain Hope

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Re: Manipulation
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2008, 10:16:59 PM »

The thing is that as Christ was dying on the cross, suffering, He called out "Father forgive them for they do not know what they do." There has not been a day that has gone by that I have not called that out too.

Some days forgiveness reigns in my heart -- somedays I am human, like today, but at least I am not a P or an N :D



Still catching up on reading here, Lise.
Yes! There is power in calling out to the Lord... a power which trumps emotions. I keep telling myself, Lise... every single day, cry out! Call upon the Lord!  It's not a religious thing, at all.
It's simply because I know that the days when I don't are very long, very bad ones. Those are the days when I give in to the siren call of weak faith and flounder around like a fish out of water.

 The truth, as I know it, is that the human heart is deceitful and feelings lie. Anybody who says that he never feels bad or has a negative thought is a liar, imo.
What puts me to sleep each night is the assurance that the One on the throne of my heart has seen it all... and He knows who belongs to Him... and it don't get no better than that :)

There's a devotional that came to my email today which speaks of the Psalms. I'll post it over on the What Helps board, if you might like to read it. It's just those Psalms which got me through the end with NPD-ex. Great faith-builders, they are... sure and true.

Love,
Carolyn


P.S.   (((((((tt)))))))  I really enjoy your posts. Good going on handling the current church person/situation! Nothing new under the sun, eh?

teartracks

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Re: Manipulation
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2008, 10:40:37 PM »



Hi Carolyn,

Actually it wasn't an action of the lady toward me that put me on alert.  It was that I noticed what looked lto me like scapgoating her daughter at church one night.  I mentioned it here about eight months ago.  Not more than three weeks later, the daughter ran away from home, and took up with a boy not even old enough to go into the military.  Now there is a baby.  You know how the story goes.  The lady got elected to head up a ladies group in our little church.  She has facilitated two meetings so far.  She sometimes says the oddest things and in both meetings, she has directed one of her odd statements or questions to me.  Still, it isn't her odd comments directed at me that I am most concerned about, it is that as much as I didn't want to, I had to acknowledged that she indeed was scapgoating her daughter that night almost a year ago at church.   

tt


Certain Hope

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Re: Manipulation
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2008, 10:53:19 PM »
tt,

I feel funny to ask, because this is likely something on which I'm supposed to be able to connect the dots, but I'm not understanding...

it's clear that this woman scapegoated her daughter back then because... the daughter ran away from home shortly thereafter?

I mean, sometimes kids run away from rules... even when the home is loving and supportive.

Anyhow, there's likely alot more to the story of which I'm unaware, but I just know how easy it is to assume that we know what's happening in someone else's life/home and be totally off base.

Carolyn

teartracks

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Re: Manipulation
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2008, 11:58:42 PM »



Hi Carolyn,

There is a lot more to the story.  Things I don't feel free to put here. 

And you are right.  Kids do run away from homes where there are wonderful, involved parents.  I didn't mean to imply that all run away kids do it because of bad parenting. 

What I was implying is that my first clue that this woman was a 'controller' was witnessing her scapegoating her daughter.  That was the event that got my attention and put me on notice so to speak.  Now the second daughter has run away.  I never noticed the mom scapgoating the second daughter, however.   

My being in this woman's company is not a threat in any way personally.  I'm a little amused at the thought of having the unenviable ''opportunity' or chore of witnessing a 'controller' in action with complete detachment.  That's a skill I learned in the recent past.  :D

tt

PS  Carolyn,  I was so undone the night I witnessed the mother scapegoating her daughter that I did write about it here eight months to a year ago.  I also, without mentioning names, asked a couple of my trusted friends what if anything I should do.  It would have been hard for anyone to give me an answer without having more information than I felt the freedom to give.  I live in a very small community and attend a very small church.  It was a case where I wanted to do something but was held back.  Then the daughter ran away from home with the boy.   

« Last Edit: April 30, 2008, 12:06:27 AM by teartracks »

Certain Hope

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Re: Manipulation
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2008, 08:20:38 AM »
Thanks, tt. As a mother who was once scapegoated by her daughter, I'm just aware that there is often soooo much more to the story than meets the eye.
In that situation, it's taken 9 years (mainly because of my own plodding course) to get to the root of the issue and clear the air of old stenches.

Quote
My being in this woman's company is not a threat in any way personally.  I'm a little amused at the thought of having the unenviable ''opportunity' or chore of witnessing a 'controller' in action with complete detachment.  That's a skill I learned in the recent past.

I hear you there!  :D   And... ditto!  Feels like the fence of those boundaries is in place and functioning well, without much conscious thought at all.
Still, the gate creaks a bit when opened and closed, but it's not nearly so traumatic as in times past!
Such an odd sensation to recognize some of the same old tricks and not be torn to shreds by them....
a great feeling, and yet loaded with deja vu and, at times, shades of old tremors.

Love to you,
Carolyn

Gabben

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Re: Manipulation
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2008, 11:38:24 AM »

I join the others in saying I'm sorry that you've been hurting so badly today.  

You haven't indicated that it was, but I hope I didn't overload your thread with too much information on manipulation.  


NO -- I enjoyed reading it. Knowledge and info can help take the edge off Nsaint's lies like a good glass of wine used to.

My pain is just one of the days of taking a few steps back. I felt that I had completely regressed into my anger. But then this morning I awoke with peace...go figure, sometimes I feel that God throws me around like a rag doll, but all for His and my own good. This year of trials and tribulation is really God's way of refining my soul and preparing me for service in some self-less realm, all for His glory of course!

 I thought about sharing a shake down in my own church setting where I feel that I am on to a hidden agenda of a person I will probably end up thinking of as Nsaint, to coin your term.


Funny -- I have a feeling there are many Nsaints out there. Perhaps there is a finer line than we think between the neurotic and the saint :P But please share your story, if you feel the need to; hearing about your Nsaint would be refreshing.


 I have purposed to keep my cool and be an observer of my antagonist's behavior.  

Lord knows I need to coin this phrase......... :|

Not now!  Whew! some of these protracted battles get wearisome don't they?

Yes...LOL, I actually had the wisdom to consider just not fighting, now that is growth :D

Peace to you.
Lise

Gabben

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Re: Manipulation
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2008, 01:05:22 PM »
My being in this woman's company is not a threat in any way personally.  I'm a little amused at the thought of having the unenviable ''opportunity' or chore of witnessing a 'controller' in action with complete detachment.  That's a skill I learned in the recent past.  :D

tt

PS  Carolyn,  I was so undone the night I witnessed the mother scapegoating her daughter that I did write about it here eight months to a year ago.  I also, without mentioning names, asked a couple of my trusted friends what if anything I should do.  It would have been hard for anyone to give me an answer without having more information than I felt the freedom to give.  I live in a very small community and attend a very small church.  It was a case where I wanted to do something but was held back.  Then the daughter ran away from home with the boy.   




tt -- this would be hard to witness and I could see how it would leave you feeling quite powerless. God definitely allowed for you to witness the scapegoating behavior of the mom for some reason.

My mom did the same thing to me when I ran away or was taken away from the home at 15. Eventually the courts decided against my mom and in favor of me living with a safe foster mom. The decision brought very little joy, only peace in the knowledge that I no longer had to endure her daily abuse. My mom still refused to acknowledge that she was guilty any bad parenting.

Today my mom has confessed to so much of her abuse towards me as a child. Is that not a miracle? I think that people saw and prayed. It may not happen right away but if enough people witness the pain, wrongs and suffering of others then enough prayers might just perhaps be the ticket to turn things around.....one day.

Lise