Author Topic: Are You a Perfectionist?  (Read 7409 times)

LilyCat

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Re: Are You a Perfectionist?
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2008, 02:49:11 PM »
Yeah. I'm looking for that perfect man.

Sigh. It's not going too well.

Joking aside, I used to be one in my twenties. Then somehow -- maybe through group therapy? I'm guessing -- I stopped trying to meet the standard.

And now there is nothing but chaos -- so watch out if you decide to reform!

Really, I'm serious. I was going to list 3 accomplishments on that other thread as taking out the garbage, cleaning up my bedroom (almost done) and changing the cat litter.

I know that sounds like I'm being funny, and I am a little, but really, not.  My mother did not keep house. I mean, she just didn't keep house. Our house looked worse than any of those you see on the tv reality shows. She never cleaned, she never vacuumed, we never knew whether the dishes in the DW were dirty or clean. (Since she was one of those who washed the dishes before she put them in, they often were sort of both.)

Things stayed wherever they landed, sometimes for years. (I am NOT kidding.) You couldn't get to our dining room table (where we ate our meals, kitchen had a table but not very big). Every night I'd have to somehow clean up everything that was there so we could eat.

When my mom bought groceries, she'd just bring the bags in and leave them on the floor. They'd stay there until they were empty. (So yes, if she bought more, the new ones would just be added to the old ones.)

Our kitchen should have been condemned.

After my brother was hurt there were piles of his laundry lying all around.

My dad got several papers. He never picked them up; he would yell and scream at us and we would pick them up; back in those days no one had heard of recycling except the local boy scouts who had a "paper" drive 1-2 times a year. Our papers would accumulate; then when the drive came along my dad would lock us in the basement and make us tie up HIS papers.

There was no structure, no nothing. It was too embarrassing to have someone over, so I never did. We only rarely had company -- every several years, perhaps when my mom's sister came to visit. (Then, of course, there would be a mad scramble to clean up.) Never any neighbors or anything.

This is an example of how things were upside down in my family -- we kids were made to clean up after our parents. In all of this mess my dad's big "thing" was having the carpeted stairs vacuumed, and he would fly into rages, yelling at us (me) to vacuum them.

We, especially me (from my point of view!) would get caught in this battle between my parents. My mom did nothing and instead of yelling at her to clean up her act, my dad yelled at us and expected us to do it. Of course I think kids should have chores and responsibilities around the house, but this was far beyond that. The analogy would be if he'd made us go out and get jobs to support the family because he'd decided not to. (My dad was a very hard worker.)

As a result, I never learned "order" skills and cleaning skills. It seems like an elusive dream to me to have a really clean house (townhouse). I'm a total right-brained person to begin with, so organizing things is anathema to me, and this just makes it harder. I seem to have this deeply ingrained visible picture of "mess," and that's what feels comfortable to me.

I've been doing very well in the place where I live now, but I know it's not sparkling clean like many homes (it's clean, it just gets a little cluttered; there is no counter space, not much kitchen space, storage space, no basement or big closet, and the kitchen is teeny-tiny -- made for someone who only microwaves. You can stand in it and reach everything. Two people wouldn't fit, really. Not enough room to roll out a pie crust or put a cookie sheet on the counter.)

Anyway, a "perfect" house/home seems like an elusive dream to me. But it's looking pretty good! I just don't know how to get that sparkle. (I do -- it's called cleaning lady, but can't afford one.)

...and my dad was a total perfectionist with us. Both parents, really, if you count their standards for manners and behavior. If we got a 98 on our report card, my dad would rant and rave and belittle us and want to know why we didn't get a 99. (My dad had straight A's all the way through school and college, so perhaps he didn't understand this.)

When I made 2nd in allstate orchestra on my instrument -- which was a tremendous achievement -- my dad yelled and asked me if I couldn't have tried "1/8th harder" (there were 8 instruments in this section) and come in first. Of course, that doesn't even make sense! The math doesn't make sense.

And the manners and social behavior -- yikes! The stories I could tell you. Endless. Manners are manners and I'm all for politeness and respect, but when I tell some of my stories to people they are sort of incredulous.

So, there was an expectation of perfection that of course, I/we could never live up to. And what an irony, considering the mess (physical and emotional) we lived in. Underneath I think I perceived that inconsistency, but as a kid you don't have full access to your feelings. And in our family they were so squelched, anyway, that they were all locked away.

...thus, when I moved into my first apartment and out on my own, I tried and tried and tried to be perfect ... at home, at work, everything. But of course I couldn't be.

It's funny. One of the things about my group therapy experience that I always remember is how I came the first night (and many after) and looked very well put together. (Let me make it clear: I am not a well-put-together looking kind of person. I do not do that neat, crisp thing well.) At that point in my life I took a lot of pains to look good: hair, make-up, etc.

As I started to heal in group, I started to let the veil drop. I don't think the appearance thing was a total mask, but it must have been one in part. It hasn't been until this winter, after the N experience, that I've ever gone back. Interestingly enough, the one thing that really helped me heal from him was taking good care of my appearance. I'm not an appearance-oriented person at all. But this time it really helped. My girlfriend here at work (the cancer survivor) is enormously talented with hair and make-up -- unbelievable! -- so she's been, shall we say, transforming me. I never understood how taking pains with your appearance could be so ... rewarding! I wasn't brought up this way. (My mom was beautiful but she didn't do this either; she walked around in horrid clothes, ripped pants held together by safety pins)

Oh well, quite the long ramble about my journey with perfection. In any case, it used to be a real struggle but I gave it up years ago. If you possibly can, I recommend it! Oddly enough, you get control over your life by letting all control go. So perfectionism can really stand in the way.

Oh -- and should I talk about musical perfection? Yikes! It's why I never play my instrument any more.

lighter

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Re: Are You a Perfectionist?
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2008, 03:22:44 PM »
Oddly enough, you get control over your life by letting all control go. So perfectionism can really stand in the way.

Oh -- and should I talk about musical perfection? Yikes! It's why I never play my instrument any more.



LilyCat... I'm so sorry your father's behavior killed your joy for playing your instrument.

What did you play?

And..... your comment about giving up control, external, in order to gain control, internal.... BIG.

Lighter

ps.... your post pinged my heart as I saw glimpses of people and know, myself.... much empathy to you. 

Izzy_*now*

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Re: Are You a Perfectionist?
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2008, 03:37:59 PM »
Lily and lighter

I was just thinking about the cessation of my piano playing (and song writing).

It was the N, who was SO impressed at the beginning (when we met) who later would walk out of the house if I played. I began to use earphones with my piano keyboard, but he said he 'could still hear the keys being used and with no sound it was so stupid'.

And yes, perfectionism, yet you've heard composers bulding a song. It's hit and miss.

It sits here and I see it every day and only dust it on cleaning day.
Izzy
"The joy of love lasts such a short time, but the pain of love lasts one's whole life"

LilyCat

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Re: Are You a Perfectionist?
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2008, 05:33:53 PM »
Thanks, ladies.

...I played (play) the french horn (we just call it the horn). It was my major in college. I studied privately in New York with a major player for several years afterward. That was incredible!

My dad didn't stop me from playing it, that was just a painful experience. The perfection part comes from it being such a difficult and treacherous instrument, and the fact that I can never play what I hear in my head. I am not technically capable of it ... and that discrepancy just drives me insane!

It is one of the very sad things about losing the friendship of the N pastor. He was always
very good with artists, and he was particularly wonderful with/to me during all those years. Church is pretty much the only place I play because frankly, I can't stand conductors. But I love my music director and he's great to play for, just great. We've done so much over the years.

Anyway, the N pastor was always really wonderful when I played, he really was. His appreciation meant so much to me. Once, when I played a very simple but beautiful piece for Good Friday, he came up and told me how much I'd moved him; that he didn't know the horn could be played that way, and that he was going to ask the music director never to have me play before his sermons, because it was so hard for him to preach afterward.

I guess that sounds like N bs, but I really think he meant it. (He did actually make that request.) He always really loved it when I played, or sang. Horn was really a thing with us; it became his favorite instrument. Maybe it reached him where little else did, who knows.

And what are the odds of this? Another (amateur) horn player joined our church. She played very well for someone who hadn't studied it in depth, but she also had "issues," made life very hard for me. The N pastor was very sensitive to that without my even asking him to be or bringing it up. Could he have been all bad? Maybe he wasn't a totally lost cause. (Ok, slap me back into reality now.)


Izzy, dust off those keys and play! You really need to do it. There is nothing like it, there really isn't. I am always such a different (happier) person when I play, and I bet you are too. (I do not mean to imply that you are not happy, but that you probably get much joy from it.)

That is so outrageous that the N wouldn't let you play. It is really stripping the soul to take someone's music away.

...in any case, at least you dust it! (making fun of my own cleaning abilities here...)


Carolyn, I just wanted to let you know that I read several of your posts. You always get to me! And you have been such a warm and gracious friend. I'm going to ponder what you've written for awhile and then hopefully have something relevant to say on Monday. (Don't have email access at home.) And, I totally get the vacation thing. I've never gone on a real one for that very reason. I hate traveling! It means packing and unpacking.

Oh wow, it's so nice here now. It's 5:30 and there's not another soul in the office!

have a good weekend everyone. And I do mean (((((((EVERYONE))))))).

Certain Hope

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Re: Are You a Perfectionist?
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2008, 11:51:26 PM »
(((((((((Lily)))))))))) I am sorry to have missed you. Your writing is so engaging... just wish I had read this earlier today!

About music... I'm very amateurish at the piano, but always loved it. NPD-ex would nearly swoon when I'd play...   music soothes the savage breast?

And although I've tried to get back into it several times since, it's never been the same.

Now I wonder if he didn't just make his mark on that part of me... as though claiming it for his own, possessing it...
because now it no longer feels like mine. In some weird way, this makes sense to me at the deepest level, and reminds me of his hugs... the sort that made me feel helpless to stop the dissolving of my very being. ack, I must be in a strange mood... but he was a strange critter, as all N's are.


This made me laugh aloud:   
Quote
I do not do that neat, crisp thing well
   

lol... me, either... but I don't mind trying occasionally. Hard to manage with hair that does the Bozo thing when the relative humidity rises above 50%!
One of my girls is always trying to get me to use the hair straightener, but I don't have the inclination or patience for that.

And this ~ 
Quote
Oddly enough, you get control over your life by letting all control go
......  :D  Yes!  I get it! 

You wise woman, you! 

Hope you'll have a great weekend and - once again - see ya on Monday!

Love,
Carolyn

lighter

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Re: Are You a Perfectionist?
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2008, 11:59:08 PM »
Have a wonderful weekend Lily!

OH!  ANother Twix: )

Lighter

Certain Hope

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Re: Are You a Perfectionist?
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2008, 12:00:03 AM »
The pb twix are best.

Certain Hope

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Re: Are You a Perfectionist?
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2008, 10:52:17 AM »
Here is step #5 to
Defeat Perfectionism with Excellence       :)

(this one's a biggie for me!)

Don't "should" on yourself or others.
Instead of making demands or unreasonable expectations on people and yourself take an attitude of "I would like to"....
 "I'm going to work towards." ..... "I'd appreciate it if you could"


Yes!

Carolyn

Certain Hope

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Re: Are You a Perfectionist?
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2008, 11:57:24 AM »
Here is step #5 to
Defeat Perfectionism with Excellence       :)

(this one's a biggie for me!)

Don't "should" on yourself or others.
Instead of making demands or unreasonable expectations on people and yourself take an attitude of "I would like to"....
 "I'm going to work towards." ..... "I'd appreciate it if you could"


Yes!

Carolyn

Just another note on this topic of refraining from "shoulding"...

Kelly has since done an individual thread on the subject, which has brought some issues into greater clarity for me.
Thanks, Kelly!

More and more, I'm seeing the need for firm boundaries - both with others and within myself - to eliminate the "shoulds".
And there's a difference, I think, between how this might be handled within intimate relationships vs. strangers and casual aquaintances.

But I'm just thinking...  that it's possible to be too round-about in teaching people how we want to be treated (and re-educating ourselves about how to treat our selves!)
Too vague and fuzzy.
Indirect.
Oblique.
So... I'm making it a point to be quite clear these days.
This is acceptable and this is not... both internally and externally.
And I am seeing how that does not hinder grace a bit...
in fact, it extends grace - - -  so much more, in fact, than does avoidance, or expecting folks to be able to read my mind, or any of the other unhealthy methods practiced previously.

Anyhow, my thoughts on this are incomplete at this point, but just wanted to get this much down in print, because this area - in particular - really is my struggle.

Carolyn

tayana

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Re: Are You a Perfectionist?
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2008, 04:50:23 PM »
I am a perfectionist.  I can answer yes to all the questions except the last one.  I'm working very hard on it.  It's one of the things that drives my partner nuts. I get caught up in all the little things and lose sight of the big picture often.  I get upset when things don't work right or work like I'd planned.  I cry if I burn dinner, because I feel like dinner always has to be perfect.  One of the first dinners I fixed for my partner at my home, I was so panicked and anxious that I couldn't eat.  I was literally shaking because I was so worried about what she would think. 

My mother was one of those people for whom nothing was ever good enough.  She constantly compared me to my friends and would frequently ask why I didn't do as well in school as they did.  She picked out my clothes.  She squelched any desires I had that she didn't approve of.  She would only allow me to participate in activities that she approved of or that made her look good.  To other people she would go on and on about how good I was, and in private, she would berate me for not having been first or not winning a schlarship or not getting 100 on a test.

She would come to my home and pick out each and every imperfection, down to a teeny cobweb in a order.  For a woman who's nearly blind, she can certainly see dirt.  It's a horrible thing to be insulted in your own home.

I am working really hard on my perfectionistic tendencies.  I work on them with my T, and also with my partner, who's very supportive.
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really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
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Certain Hope

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Re: Are You a Perfectionist?
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2008, 11:24:20 PM »
Dear Tayana,

What you've described is so familiar to me and I'm sorry for the burden you're carrying... cuz I know how very heavy it is.
In the first stages of trying to break free from this cell, I often felt more depressed than free... simply because it was so difficult to face the fact that I couldn't do it all "just so".  Then there was the slobby phase... lol. I just pretty much let it all hang out and nearly got lost in the pile-ups around my home. Okay, that is a dramatization. A three-inch stack of unsorted paperwork can feel like a mountatin to me, at times... but in time, I’ve been able to retrain and refocus a lot of my perspectives. There’s no better way I know to learn how to be patient with yourself! Wish it could be more pleasant, but practice is what it takes, from my experience.

About dinner... o my, do I hear you!
I'll tell you what changed my entire outlook on it, though...
One day a couple years ago my kids wanted chicken strips. So we got out the deep fryer and began that little project, while I’m mentally scrambling for ideas on potential side-dishes. I remember asking them what they wanted with it... nothing. They were having so much fun helping me get the chicken prepared and breaded, but all I could think about was – what could I put together real quick that would accompany this meal and still have time to clean up the big mess which was quickly accumulating (flour everywhere…) 
Oh no, I insisted to them... how about this, or that?  No, no, nope, just chicken strips.
And then it dawned on me… how they were laughing and having fun… and flour was getting into all the cracks of the stovetop and all over their clothes… and… it hit me -  so what?!!?
And so, for once, I stopped obsessing about the completeness and perfection of the meal and the kitchen and the kids who were very shortly going to be dropping flour particles all over the house…
And I chose to stop making such a chore and a project out of something that was complete in and of itself… simply by virtue of all the fun they were having.
So we just had those silly chicken pieces and I tell you they were the very best meal I have ever eaten.
And that was the end of my quest for perfect dinners/ meals... and the beginning of a whole new healthier appetite and outlook.
Used to be that I couldn't even really enjoy the meals I'd work so hard to prepare.
Not so, anymore!
Funny what can change a lifetime perspective. This was just another "shade" of my mother’s ways that got cast out.. by a determined choice of will. It’s not easy and at first it doesn’t feel natural or right, but it sure is worth the effort.

And yes, having a supportive loved one makes all the difference in the world when you're trying to loosen up and just enjoy the simple things. Best wishes to you!

Love,
Carolyn